[natehale1971]

Originally Posted by Mohoender

I'm interested out of curiosity. Although I'm taking a very different path (I have a union between China and Russia), I took some options that are very similar: a Latin American Socialist Union (Chavez), a Middle Eastern Union (centered on Turkey and Iran moran than Iran/Iraq) and a limited extension of the EU.

I'd like to hear more about how you got the Turkey/Iran alliance to work.. The Baghdad Pact was a military defense kind of thing to oppose outsiders interfereing in the affairs of the Gulf States in the aftermath of Operation Desert Shield & Desert Storm. The 'big three' of the Pact states would be Syria, Iraq, and Iran. I'm still working on the other states who'd join the pact, being brought in during an attempt to politicize upon the desire to reestablish the Islamic capitate (sp).

I went with the break-up of the EU so that the fighting in Europe would actually happen in a more 'multi-front' manner. Especially with the three-way fights that really cause a much more chaotic and brutal fighting. Especially the Balkans and Central Europe where you actually have forces of all three alliances (Med-NATO-WP) fighting each other. I have another alliance, but it's more of an Armed Neutrality camp... The Swedish and Finnish alliance (the name will be either the Scandinavian or Nordic Bloc, or even Baltic Bloc since post war Estonia, Latvia, Norway, and Denmark & Greenland will join it).

The Alliance throughout the Caribbean, Latin America & South America based upon Chavez desire to create a political bloc to stand in opposition to 'American Imperialism' wouldn't get funding from the USSR & the Warsaw Pact, but would get to provide ecconomic support when they are buying large quanities of modern weapons and equipment from the USSR/WP states (and a major part of why their economies made recoveries in this alternate universe). I am trying to get some info on Chavez and his first failed coup attempt, and what would have happened if he'd been successful back then. Because if that could have been the start of the creation of the alliance, it would give them the time to build up and become a viable threat that would cause the US to expend significant combat forces to the region.

I am still working on how the Med Alliance expansion in Africa prompted the formation of the US Africa Command, and all of the things that had prompted Protugal to joining the Med Alliance.

I have been working on what happened in South Africa as well. I want to get rid of Apartheid, but I wanted to do it in a way that wouldn't have caused the chaos that the real world has seen. I have thoughts on this, but not sure how best to go about it... My original concept was that the homelands policy would have continued with alot of changes, and the creation of a tricamoral legislative body (basicly the creation of a 'tribal council' where each of the different ethnic groups would be given representative seats, and would be instrumental in the elections of national leaders, similar to the US Electorial College). Frederik Willem de Klerk & Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela where the leaders of South Africa for the 1990s and together brought the country through the end of apartheid. I had thought of the creation of several different states that would be alligned together in a defensive pact. I've also went with the following political offices in South Africa: President of South Africa (head of state), Prime Minister (head of government), and at least three Deputy Prime Ministers (there might be more, having them being the elected leaders of each of the south african states).

Any help on coming up with the post-apartheid South Africa I'd really love it.


Here is some of the 'color' and 'flavor' changes... If you've got some ideas to add, i'm more than willing to hear them!

Especially help on coming up with political leaders... Especially with who becomes president after 2008. I wanted to stick with actual real world leaders being elected up until the start of the war... I had planned that the 'Independence Day Massacare' failed at taking out the Federal Government, it damaged it severely and actually caused even the most ardent opposition party members to throw their support behind the successful resolution of the war. Thus why the fighting kept going instead of a compete armistance being declared.

Yes, peacetalks DID open up (using the prepreation for the Olympics to host the peacetalks) and did stop the use of any further nuclear weapons... And after it became evident that no one had the ability to continue fighting the war in Europe and Central Asia, the negotatiors were able to get everyone to return to their respective corners and get the nations of Eastern Europe their independence from outside influences (aggreed upon because the USSR was currently engaged in a civil war between pro-democratic and pro-communist forces).

The Soviet Civil War basicly comes down between the pro-democratic forces that had become alligned with someone with a tentitive claim to regain the Romanov Dynasty and the former Soviet Premier who had basicly 'saved' the USSR (he had been instrumental in the 'Black Winter', but at his core was a Patriot more than a communist), and the hardline communists behind the 'new' Preimer who had been the Defense Minister who had actually planned the coup that overthrew Gorbachev regime, and had orchestrated the bloody 'black winter' and its aftermath. Yes... I've gone with referring to the two factions as the White Army (pro-democracy) and Red Army (pro-communists).

I've decided that when the Soviet Civil War ends, the pro-democracy forces win, renaming the USSR as the Union of Sovereign Northern Republics (whose initials will actually still be CCCP), and it will become a constitional monarchy, with the best aspects of the former system kept.

The 1990s also saw the birth of the modern Private Military Contractors like we have today. I am just trying to come up with names for the major PMC companies, I don't really want to use real company names (like Blackwater USA) because unlike Political Leaders and Political Parties, i am really worried that they could actually have the power to SUE...


--- Soviet / Russian Leaders ----

Konstantin Dmitrievich Danilov, fromer Soviet Officer and KGB official. Despite his outward appearance as being a hardline communist, he is more a Russian / Soviet Patriot who sought to preserve the power, influence and capabilities of the USSR instead of seeing it and its hegmony collasping.
Danilovism becomes what observers call the changes that he introduced to the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe that has allowed small business and limited capitalism that our world has seen sucessfully done in the PRC.
Danilovians are those who have found themselves approving of all the chagnes of the past decade that saved the soviet union, and they will become the core of the White Army after Tukhachevsky launches a coup to get rid of the 'too popular' Danilov because he and other hardline communists felt that to many changes where happening and that decadence of the west had corrupted the USSR.

Nikolai Ivanovich Tukhachevsky, USSR Defense Minister who is an extremely diehard communist and was the biggest orchistrator to the overthrow of Gorbachev and the power behind the brutal 'Black Winter' (the biggest reason why he didn't become the new preimere of the USSR was that he wouldn't have been able to be a public face that the international community would have accepted). Tukhachevsky is totally devoted to the ideals of the communist society and political power of the communist party.

Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin is a major supporter of Danilov and the reforms he has brought about, and had been assigned as the 'official' assistant to the Romanov heir (Nicholas Romanovich Romanov or one of his daughters or grandchildren) who had been on a well publicied good-will tour of the Soviet Union, brining with them private aid money to establish charity based orphanages and medical clinics that was established to help the people being affected by the Sino-Soviet war.


---- Presidents of the United States ----

George H.W. Bush, 41s President of the United States (1989-1992)
William J. 'Bill' Clinton, 42d President of the United States (1992-2000)
George W. 'Dubya' Bush, 43d President of the United States (2000-????)
<name>, 44th President of the United States (????-????)

I am trying to come up with the elections that will have happened in 2008, and can't decide if passage of legislation that would allow for wartime emergency suspension of the 22nd Amendment (limiting the president to only two four-year terms) would be legal or not. Especially with the fact that so much of the country is in chaos thanks to the fact that there are areas under the control of the 'Progressive New America' and areas outside of the control of the Federal Government.


----- US Armed Forces Uniform Changes ----

During the Clinton Administration (1992-2000), the Pentagon introduced a series of uniform changes to increase morale and promote a higher sense of espirt de corps among the men and women serving their country.

The US Armed Forces adopt digital camouflage (woodland, desert, urban, naval) uniforms starting in 1994. The introduction of these new uniforms sees stockpiles of BDU uniforms being issued to National Guard units until the universal adoption of the new uniforms by 2004. But once the war started, this was greatly accelerated, and stockpiles of BDU uniforms would be State Defense Forces and State Militia units. [Real World Example: the replacement combat utility uniforms have the same style and look like the ACU, but using MARPAT digital camouflage patterns except for the US Navy whom also use the real world Naval Digital Camouflage pattern.]

1994 also saw the introduction of a new US Army Khaki Service Uniform to replace the service dress greens that shared many design elements of the USMC Sage Green uniforms that harkens back to the service uniforms worn during the Second World War and Korea. [Editorial note: I had thought of the piping on the trousers being in the branch colors instead of arm color, but felt that should be kept only for the US Army Dress Blue uniform.]

Also in 1994 the US Navy reintroduced the navy blue flattop sailor's cap to replace the white dixie cup. The US Navy introduced new khaki service dress uniforms for Senior Non-Commissioned Officers, Warrant Officers and Commissioned Officers that shared many elements with the US Navy aviation green service uniforms. The enlisted dress white uniforms added cuffs and blue piping to the white jumpers, and white flattop sailor's cap.


US Army Khaki Service Uniform: A khaki combination cap w/brown leather visor, a belted khaki jacket, a tan dress shirt, a dark tan tie, a pair of khaki trousers w/piping (brown: combat arms, dark brown: combat support, black: combat service support), a pair of brown dress socks, a pair of brown leather dress shoes (or a pair of brown combat boots worn by personnel in select combat units).

ACU (Army Combat Utilities) uniform: a forage cap or beret, a button-up tunic, a pull-over combat shirt, a pair of combat trousers, a pair of cushion-soled socks, a pair of tan combat boots.

ABU (Airman Battle Utilities) uniform: a forage cap or beret, a button-up tunic, a pull-over combat shirt, a pair of combat trousers, a pair of cushion-soled socks, a pair of black combat boots.

NCU (Navy Combat Utilities) uniform: a five-point cap or a beret, a button-up tunic, a pull-over combat shirt, a pair of combat trousers, a pair of cushion-soled socks, a pair of black combat boots.

MCU (Marine Combat Utilities) uniform: a five-point cap, a button-up tunic, a pull-over combat shirt, a pair of combat trousers, a pair of cushion-soled socks, a pair of brown combat boots.

US Army beret colors: Brown beret (US Army Combat Arms), Dark brown beret (US Army Combat Support Arms), Black beret (US Army Combat Service Support), Tan beret (US Army Rangers),
Maroon beret (US Army Airborne), Dark green beret (US Army Special Forces)

US Air Force beret colors: Burgundy red beret (US Air Force Pararescue), Scarlet red beret (US Air Force Combat Controller), Blue black beret (US Air Force Tactical Air Command & Control Specialist), Light gray beret (US Air Force Combat Weather), Gray beret (US Air Force SERE instructor), Dark blue beret (US Air Force Security Police)

US Navy beret colors: White beret (USN personnel), Gray beret (USN Special Warfare Combatant-craft Crewmen), Light gray beret (USN SEALS)