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Originally Posted by Brother in Arms
but I need to start out a group that has never played an RPG before and aren't super excited about playing make believe or pretend.... none of the players know anything about RPGing...
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Never? Really?
As kids, they never played cowboys and Indians? Cops and robbers? Even a first person shooter is roleplaying of a crude sort ("I'm the last Space Marine and I have to stop an alien invasion of earth.").
If they aren't geeked for "playing pretend" I don't think any approach you take is going to work.