Quote:
Originally Posted by CDAT
So I am a little confused, are you talking the NIJ ratings or the in game ratings? I think that you are talking the NIJ ratings but even the best soft armor (NIJ 3A) will not stop any rifle round. Or at least out to 100 meters (that is as far as our range at work can shoot), at that distance our M4's go through both sides and the target dummy and into the back stop. Having gone to several body armor shoots from the industries professionals (AKA sales reps) where we got to shoot vests with all kinds of things, not a single vest stopped rifle rounds tell we got to the hard plates.
So I guess I am asking are you trying to get more realistic? If so all rifles (not pistol caliber carbines) will penetrate them at just about any range that you can hit with, and even the rifle rated plates are only good for a limited number of hits (level III rated at six, level IV rated at one, but both last longer). Or are you trying to make it less lethal on the players?
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The problem is dealing with weapons at the high end of the pistol range and low end of the rifle range.
Using book values, the two .44 Magnum revolvers are both Dam 3, Pen 2-Nil. The M16A1 is Dam 2, Pen 1-Nil. AV 1 will be penetrated by both, AV 2 will be resisted by both.
Using Paul's damage values, the .44 Magnum is Dam 4, Pen 1-Nil, and the M16A1 is Dam 3, Pen 1-Nil, so it's impossible to protect against the .44 without also protecting against the M16 (the M4 is also 3, 1-Nil). You need AV 3 to protect against an M16 or M4, and AV 4 to protect against the .44 Magnum. Since NIJ Class IIIA is supposed to protect against .44 Magnum.
Going back to book values (and using the NIJ 0101.06 standard), each level needs to protect against the following:
IIA: 9mm, .40 S&W: no .40 S&W weapon is in IWW, and all the 9mm pistols are Pen Nil.
II: 9mm, .357 Magnum: .357 Magnum is Dam 2, Pen 1-Nil.
IIIA: .357 SIG, .44 Magnum: Only 9mm Sigs are included, but .44 Magnum is Dam 3, Pen 2-Nil.
III: 7.62x51mm: Every rifle in IWW using 7.62mmN is Dam 4, Pen 2-3-Nil.
Looking at it this way, it becomes clear that the damage and pen values are the problem. AV2 is the minimum to protect against .357 Magnum, but it also protects against 7.62x51mm and .44 Magnum.
If we use numbers from the weapons Paul has done up:
IIA: the .40S&W Glock 22/23 series are Dam 2, Pen 1-Nil
II: the S&W Model 13 (.357 Magnum) is Dam 3, Pen 1-Nil
IIIA: the S&W Model 29 (.44 Magnum) is Dam 4, Pen 1-Nil
III: the Springfield M14 is Dam 4, Pen 2-3-Nil
Paul's numbers would work if we change the Pen around. It doesn't really make sense that pistol rounds (slower and heavier) have better Pen, since velocity is what matters (as swag mentioned). If all the pistols mentioned become 2-Nil, and the M14 is 1-2-Nil, then we end up in a situation where AVs of 1 (for IIA), 1.5 (for II), 2 (for IIIA), and 4 (for III with plates) will work against the appropriate weapons. An M-16, with Dam 3 and Pen 1-Nil, will penetrate up to IIIA and be stopped by III. This is better, but it's not systematic yet.
The problem extends into Fire, Fusion & Steel, where low-powered rounds (between 600 and 2000 joules muzzle energy) are the best penetrators. Get a round up to 1990 joules (but don't go over 2000), and you'll get Dam 3, Pen 1-Nil; the next time something will be able to penetrate AV2 is at 6807 joules, when you get Dam 5 and Pen 2-3-4. The solution would be to rewrite the Penetration table so that each step is no worse than the step before. As it stands, there are two "bad" steps - going from 1-Nil to 2-Nil at 2000 joules, and from 2-3-Nil to 2-4-6 at 5000 joules. I don't have that solution yet (i.e. a rewritten Pen table for FF&S), but at least now the problem seems clear.