[Mahatatain]

Originally Posted by unipus

I really like this idea in general. I'd have to playtest it to see how it actually feels.

But, conceptually, it achieves two things I really like. One, the press/hold thing allows for the lulls that most real combat consists of where their guys are over there and your guys are over here and as long as you don't poke your head up too much or run around or get spotted doing something stupid probably not much is going to happen for a while. Trying to adjudicate that sort of thing while sticking to the action based system made it almost a real-time endeavor. My solution was usually just like "it looks like they're not eager to make any more moves unless you are," but this makes it a clean, fair mechanic.

The +4 modifier for pushing kinda contradicts it, though, since there's no penalty otherwise. Unless you're hit bad and just need to lay down, why is anyone incentivized to do anything other than push most of the time?

Thanks for the input.

The modifier for Pressing was included based on the idea that if you Hold you are hesitating slightly and therefore not being as aggressively in combat. Initially, I had a negative modifier to the Initiative total for those participants declaring Hold but that potentially ends up with a negative initiative total so, for easy-to-understand maths, I flipped it around and made the modifier a positive one for declaring Press.

Does the concept of someone Pressing generally acting earlier in the combat round than someone Holding make sense though? What do people think?

Originally Posted by unipus

The other thing I'd say is that, maybe on the first round only, I'd include unit morale. Maybe just a single unit die roll applies to everyone equally. This gives you a whole other tool to play with that can even pass forward from engagement to engagement. It's easier to beat an enemy that is beaten!

That’s an interesting suggestion. I’ll have a think about that. Thanks for this.

Originally Posted by Raellus

It's tricky. Seems like attempts to add realism also end up adding complexity. The more steps added to the process, the slower combat goes, I imagine. One of good things about 4e rules that I keep hearing is how it speeds up combat, compared to earlier versions.

Slowing down combat rounds by rolling initiative each round is certainly the main negative of this homebrew system.

This suggestion may well be a good solution to that though:

Originally Posted by swaghauler

The simple solution to hold or press in your alfa build is that you do not reroll Initiative if EVERYONE chooses the same option from those two choices.

If everyone declares Hold then there is a Pause in the combat so you would only keep the latest set of initiative rolls if everyone declares Press. It’s a good idea though.

Originally Posted by Tegyrius

Yes, but only if you're playing in real time. Play-by-post still takes a couple of months per combat scene.

Initiative tends to get ignored in PbP games in my experience as waiting for players to post in initiative order just delays the game further. This system might be slightly better for PbP games than the original rules (as it includes the Press/Hold mechanic) but I doubt it.

I think that the major issue with the 4E rules to resolve for PbP games is the Push mechanic for skill checks. That’s probably best discussed in the 4E rules thread though.

Originally Posted by Raellus

About 4e's system, as-written, has anyone had a bad experience with the optional rule by which a group of enemy draw one initiative card as a collective, and all act on the same initiative turn? It strikes me that using that streamlining feature could potentially give an enemy force a huge tactical advantage.

For example, imagine a 6 v 6 engagement. Let's say one of the six PCs draws the one card, and then the OPFOR draws the two. That means the bad guys get six turns before the PCs get a second one. That seems game breaking to me. Am I missing something?

I think that you’ve identified a potential issue with initiative system. I haven’t had an experience yet where the enemy get the drop on the PCs but I have had an encounter where the PCs had a surprise round and it was a slaughter. That’s probably realistic but it could potentially be a TPK very easily if the enemy either achieve complete surprise or act first as a block at the start of the combat round. Even with the 4E initiative system as written though I would break the enemy up into several groups and give them each their own initiative card to try to break things up. There are only 10 initiative cards though so the enemy can only be broken down into groups so far.