[Eddie]

Wow...in one thread I've had my country insulted for being over-aggressive, trigger-lovers and now had my profession insulted as being tragically flawed for not doing it X way and being riddled with incompetents because they chose to go to college and be leaders first instead of followers first.

Originally Posted by Webstral

Gorman couldn't have done any better than he did because he is a statement about butterbars in Vietnam specifically and the commissioning process of the United States military (the Army in particular) as a whole.

Really? Because the US as a whole, and the Army in particular are still stuck in the way we did things in Vietnam?

Gorman is a classic "gentlemen officer" of the sort epitomized by West Point: a great attitude about getting in there and fighting the good fight but too little experience to make good decisions under pressure.

Because you've worked with so many West Point graduates, Web? For the record, I just gave up a company command in the 25th Infantry where I had four 2LTs that I rated. The most competent, tactically sound one I had was a West Point graduate from 2008.

His personal gear, his weapon, and his role as observer and coordinator make plain the idea that he is not one of the Marines. (Also, his little work station in the APC makes a nice reference to the hive command structure of the enemy.) Had Gorman done things the right way, he could not have served as such a powerful indictment fo the commissioning system we "enjoy" in the US.

First of all, his job as the commander on the ground is be where he can best control his units and keep SA of the battlefield. The TTP of having the PL in a Bradley/Tank/APC/giant-flying-super-ninja-bot, where he has access to all of the command and control and asset coordination capabilities is a pretty common one. Then, the PSG gets on the ground and fights the fight while the PL controls the fight. That is what Gorman is supposed to do in a fight. However he can best accomplish that is his call. Armchair general it all you want, his platoon, his decision.

The indiscipline of Drake and Vasquez serves to illustrate the effects of a breakdown in trust and effective command resulting from having a buttterbar in charge of a mission that clearly requires field experience.

Trust and effective command? What about just basic undisciplined individuals that don't want to listen?

Again, the problem goes back to the mission leadership. Gorman failed to make good decisions, thereby creating the window of opportunity for the catamity that befalls his command and the mission.

All because he's not prior-enlisted. That would have solved everything and negated all of the constraints that he had enforced on him and thereby passed down to them.

No officer should ever be commissioned without being a private first! Neither West Point nor ROTC nor OCS should take anyone with less than two years of enlisted time--preferably as a rifleman with one combat tour under his belt. Anyone who makes it through that and still wants to lead has a much better chance of being effective than a ring-bearer or a 90-day wonder.

Oh, Jesus Christ. I'm so sick of hearing this. As a Company Commander, with 8 years prior enlisted experience to my 4 years (in April) of commissioned time, this statement is the most frequently stated bullshit that I hear. Enlisted service does absolutely nothing for an officer other than give him an instant ability to relate to his Joes. I do 2 years as a supply clerk, drop an OCS packet, and get commissioned as an Infantry officer. Or an Aviator. Or an Intel officer. My prior enlisted time really helps. I know so much more. He can be a shithead just as easily or be shit hot. In fact, two of the most competent butterbars I've ever worked with or had work for me were 2LTs straight out of West Point, Infantry OBC, and Ranger School, thrown into a platoon and told "Run with it." One of them in combat. One of them in garrison.

Don't bother replying. I've said my piece. I've not attacked anyone personally. And I'm not obtuse enough to think that anything I say here is going to make a switch click in any of your heads and bring about a miraculous, "Oh, yeah, I didn't see it that way before." However, I will refer you back to my intro post in the Military Service thread from several months ago and the fact that I'm a few months shy of 12 years of Active Federal Service in the US Army...and a product of it's horrendous commissioning system.

Yeah, I think I'm done here now.

Deuces.