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Franken-AFVs
Over in the recent LAV-25 thread, cawest and StainlessSteelCynic had some thoughts about field-expedient AFV modifications. In the spirit of technicals writ large, what are your most implausible turret transplants or other AFV hacks that might have arisen in the Twilight: 2000 universe?
For me, I've got a few: From published canon, it's the M691 Diana (American Combat Vehicle Handbook, p. 72). Visually, it's the epitome of the musclebound dude with the tiny head stereotype. But it's also a waste of a perfectly good Abrams chassis. I mean, why put an ADA turret on that when you can put an M1 turret on it and have another M1? Also from canon, there's a throwaway line in the Stingray's description (American Combat Vehicle Handbook, p. 41) about its turret being transplantable to the wheeled Cadillac Gage Commando models. Well, it might work - consider the AMX-10-RC - but sticking a light tank turret on top of an M706 seems a lot like putting a 75mm recoilless rifle on a Vespa. For homebrew factory modifications, I'll submit my old Louisville Slugger from 2011's US Army AAA in T2k thread. Because nothing screams "ridiculous" like a CIWS jutting up from a Bradley chassis, swiveling around in full autonomous mode, and terrorizing everyone who's seen The Terminator. - C.
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Clayton A. Oliver • Occasional RPG Freelancer Since 1996 Author of The Pacific Northwest, coauthor of Tara Romaneasca, creator of several other free Twilight: 2000 and Twilight: 2013 resources, and curator of an intermittent gaming blog. It rarely takes more than a page to recognize that you're in the presence of someone who can write, but it only takes a sentence to know you're dealing with someone who can't. - Josh Olson |
#2
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I have over in my Best Tanks that Never Were: A T-72 hull with a Leclerc turret. Got the idea from deviantART. I have a whole back story about how this came to be and a little bit of how it did in the Twilight War.
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I'm guided by the beauty of our weapons...First We Take Manhattan, Jennifer Warnes Entirely too much T2K stuff here: www.pmulcahy.com |
#3
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I do not remember where I saw it, but putting two GAU8 on a M1. For both ADA and urban combat.
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#4
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ZU-23-2s mounted to the backs of MT-LB is a fairly common phenomenon. In some cases, it may be a purpose-built model (MT-LBM izdeliye 6MB5); in others, it appears to be a field expedient battlefield modification.
Although not strictly-speaking "Franken-AFVs", because nothing significant is being added, only taken away, I think you'd see a lot of tank and IFV hulls with the turret removed (due to irreparable damage/lack of spare parts) serving as ersatz APCs in the later days of T2K.
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Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048 https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module |
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Mohoender found this photo of BTR-60 mounting an AML-90 turret (presumably somewhere in W. Africa) several years back.
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Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048 https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module Last edited by Raellus; 06-14-2020 at 02:10 PM. |
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Sticking support weapons on MT-LBs seems to be a proud tradition wherever they're found. The Syrians re-gunned some with 57mm guns, they and the Iraqis have put armored cupolas on them either around existing gun mounts or to make new ones, the Ukranians have replaced the SAM arms with helicopter rocket pods for MLRSes.
And a Libyan Humvee with an AML-90 gun I saved from somewhere. They were sold so many places in such volume, there are all kinds of reuses of their guns and turrets. Second is Djibouti MRAPs with AML turrets. Two Vietnam era examples, featuring helicopter miniguns on ground vehicles. |
#7
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At least with the recoilless rifle on the Vespa, it was a movement solution, not a combat solution. The Vespa was solely for transporting the recoilless rifle and it was never meant to be fired from the vehicle.
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#8
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But seriously, Libya in 2011 had some truly weird stuff. BMP turret on a cutdown HMMWV hull, don't see that every day. This was common enough, someone made a model kit out of it? Proof you can mount ANYTHING on a Toyota Hillux, including a rocket pod meant for an aircraft. Hillbilly armor on a T-55. Well, that is a bit new. Speaking of T-55s, let's discuss Iraq's entry into the "T-55 Pimp My Ride Sweepstakes." yeah, the Enigma. Better yet, I'll let these guys discuss it, it's crude, it's rude, it makes engineers weep with "Why the hell did you people do this?" https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/modern/Iraq/t-55-enigma/
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Author of "Distant Winds of a Forgotten World" available now as part of the Cannon Publishing Military Sci-Fi / Fantasy Anthology: Spring 2019 (Cannon Publishing Military Anthology Book 1) "Red Star, Burning Streets" by Cavalier Books, 2020 https://epochxp.tumblr.com/ - EpochXperience - Contributing Blogger since October 2020. (A Division of SJR Consulting). Last edited by Jason Weiser; 06-16-2020 at 02:03 PM. |
#9
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- C.
__________________
Clayton A. Oliver • Occasional RPG Freelancer Since 1996 Author of The Pacific Northwest, coauthor of Tara Romaneasca, creator of several other free Twilight: 2000 and Twilight: 2013 resources, and curator of an intermittent gaming blog. It rarely takes more than a page to recognize that you're in the presence of someone who can write, but it only takes a sentence to know you're dealing with someone who can't. - Josh Olson |
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I was thinking of was taking like a LAV and replacing the turret with a single or twin 23mm or a recovered 30mm from a BMP. you could maybe even go with a 40mm like they are doing with the new Stryker. Maybe a 57mm in a thin skin turret.
But what if you have a tank with a turret blown off or otherwise that can not be fixed. you could take a page from WW 2 Kangaroo or you can put other weapons. Egypt and a few others have 130mm cannons mounted on them (without turrets). In Twilight 200 I would not go that way, but you can used that hull to carry heavy weapons. lets take the t-72 with out a turret. take part of the Kangaroo and build up the hull's turret ring. (it will not be armor plate but steel. take the turret ring from BMP or a ZSU23-4 Shilka. you can mix an match this method a M1/m60 hull with a Shika or ZSU 57-2 |
#11
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One of the most important things to consider here is turret ring size. Will the borrowed turret even fit the vehicle? Will you have to make a new deck & turret ring to fit the borrowed turret to the hull?
After that are the various requirements for turret rotation (mechanical, electrical, manual, etc. etc.) and installing the needed components. Before that you have to find out whether the vehicle (or turret if giving it a different weapon) can handle the recoil of the weapon because that would mean extra gear to counter recoil forces. Then there's the ammunition feed & storage. They will have to be changed to accommodate the different ammo requirement. If you're just cramming a different (and larger calibre) weapon into the vehicle's standard turret, how crowded will this new weapon make the turret? It's for all these reasons that I suggest making this sort of conversion a side-adventure for any Players who want to convert a vehicle. Finding a vehicle already converted is a different situation and I'm not attempting to address that. |
#12
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I could see players who are adventuring in CA possibly doing this in conjunction with the facility that Littlefield had - i.e. if anyone has the expertise to make a working FrankenAFV its him and his mechanics - and they had the facility - now its up to the players to get the parts he needs |
#13
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For paired guns, the Abrams-based Liberty II had a pair of 25mm Bushmasters and 12 Crotale NG missiles. It was proposed for FAADS, the replacement for DIVAD, by Thomson and Vought.
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The poster formerly known as The Dark The Vespers War - Ninety years before the Twilight War, there was the Vespers War. |
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or something like this https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/modern/Iraq/T-55-130SPG
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#15
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I can see something like the following happening in basic workshops: -
And there's plenty more where that came from... Images from this site: - https://philippinestoday.blogspot.co...ood-armor.html And even improvised fighting vehicles such as trucks given armour and carrying a field gun portee-style like this: - Image from wiki: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port%C3%A9e_(military) But as mentioned in my earlier posts, I think for armoured vehicles, replacing the turret or main armament with something the vehicle was not originally configured for, would take skilled personnel with a proper workshop (e.g. one that can do repair & refurbishment levels of work) |
#16
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Better Than NO Extra Armor?
Interesting pics. I wonder how effective those wooden boards are IRL, and what their AV would be in T2k [v2.2] rules.
I know that sandbags, extra track links, and even bed-springs have been used to detonate HEAT warheads before they reach the armor proper, but the boards in the pics aren't but one or two inches thick and are mounted flush against the hull. I reckon they wouldn't do much to stop a standard RPG=7 or M72 LAW HEAT warhead from penetrating the vehicle armor.
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Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048 https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module |
#17
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"It is better to be feared than loved" - Nicolo Machiavelli |
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maybe not against the shaped charge, but it might work against the detonator. if they have degraded by time, water, or other issues? then the crush switches might become very weak, and go off even under just the g loading of the launch.
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#19
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The poster formerly known as The Dark The Vespers War - Ninety years before the Twilight War, there was the Vespers War. |
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It's in all versions of T2k rules too.
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If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives. Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect" Mors ante pudorem |
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There is with the M757 Blazer. it's found in the US Army Vehicle guide. I have a couple of photos of the prototype it's based on. I'll share them in the Discord.
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#22
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(It looks like three other vehicles failed to make the jump from 1e USAVG to 2e ACVH: the ambulance and weapon carrier HMMWVs, which are no big deal, and the M920 Bradley Hellfire carrier. Weirdly, both the M757 and the M920 already had line art in 1e, so GDW presumably could have ported them over to 2e with little added expense. The M2A3 is the obvious replacement for the M920 and makes more sense, from a mass-production and deployment perspective, than a dedicated Hellfire carrier. The M757's omission is more inexplicable - we probably could've done without something like the XM12...) - C.
__________________
Clayton A. Oliver • Occasional RPG Freelancer Since 1996 Author of The Pacific Northwest, coauthor of Tara Romaneasca, creator of several other free Twilight: 2000 and Twilight: 2013 resources, and curator of an intermittent gaming blog. It rarely takes more than a page to recognize that you're in the presence of someone who can write, but it only takes a sentence to know you're dealing with someone who can't. - Josh Olson |
#23
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I'm not sure what the turret ring diameters are for Leclerc, K2, Type 90 (Japan), or China's Type 80/88/85/96 or Type 99.
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The poster formerly known as The Dark The Vespers War - Ninety years before the Twilight War, there was the Vespers War. |
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#25
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#26
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I have taken some of the vehicles in the various handbooks, updated their stats, and given them back stories. They be found in the various "vehicles that never were" pages.
__________________
I'm guided by the beauty of our weapons...First We Take Manhattan, Jennifer Warnes Entirely too much T2K stuff here: www.pmulcahy.com Last edited by pmulcahy11b; 10-25-2020 at 08:17 PM. |
#27
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The Berlin brigade converted some FV432's by adding 30mm cannon turrets from fox armoured cars.
The principle could apply to American M113's perhaps? Put on a bradley or LAV turret maybe? |
#28
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The weapons being suggested were everything from 20mm autocannon up to soft-recoil 90mm. I believe the Egyptians had a plan to mount a Bradley turret on a lengthened M113 but it never went into production (was given the rather generic name Egyptian Infantry Fighting Vehicle if I remember...) |
#29
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It's Alive!
IIRC, there's an M113 with a LAV turret in the US Army Vehicle Guide.
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__________________
Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048 https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module |
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Throw the LAV-25's proposed TOW sidesaddle mount on there and it's... still not a Bradley, but definitely closer to one in capability. - C.
__________________
Clayton A. Oliver • Occasional RPG Freelancer Since 1996 Author of The Pacific Northwest, coauthor of Tara Romaneasca, creator of several other free Twilight: 2000 and Twilight: 2013 resources, and curator of an intermittent gaming blog. It rarely takes more than a page to recognize that you're in the presence of someone who can write, but it only takes a sentence to know you're dealing with someone who can't. - Josh Olson |
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