Iranian naval units and the RDF

[Olefin]

A question - has anyone ever looked at a probable OOB for the Iranian Navy and how it would fit into the RDF?

What might have been their probable make up with the thaw in relations with the US and Great Britain pre-war? Would the US have transferred the four Kidd class DDG to the Iranians pre-war as was supposed to happen when they were originally built?

What might they have left this late in the war - obviously there is fuel for naval ships and Iranian Marines have been mentioned several times in the RDF - so what might still be operational as to their naval forces?

Love to see what people think on this subject.

[Rainbow Six]

Can't say it's a subject I've ever given any thought to. Off the top of my head I'd be inclined to say that the US would be wary about making any military sales to the new Iranian Government in case it fell and the Revolutionaries came back into power. Admittedly it has been a long time since I read the timeline in the RDF Sourcebook so can't remember when the new Government - was it the Iran Nowin? - came to power / how long they were in power before the War started, etc. Presume there was still an Iran / Iraq War? (To be honest, I just never really...got...the RDF timeline and the way the Iranians became a US ally...and then we had the Israelis showing up...to me it was all a bit of a deus ex machina and a little unrealistic...I much preferred the scenario put forward in Harold Coyle's Sword Point - for those who haven't read it, you should - following a Soviet invasion of Iran the Soviets, the US, and the Iranians all end up fighting each other).

So...to answer at least part of your question, I don't think the US would have sold anything particularly new or modern to the Iranians for at least a few years after the Iran Nowin came to power...I think the RDF sourcebook makes reference to Iranian F16's?

[Olefin]

From what I remember it mentions Iranian Tornado fighter bombers - which implies either the Saudis or the British sold them to them - and that they have F-20's - which could have been a private sale as the F-20 wasnt bought by the USAF

[Rainbow Six]

I'd be surprised if the Saudis sold the Iranians any of their Tornados; not sure how warm the relationship would be in the T2k timeline, plus for the Saudis to sell would deplete their own air force unless they had a replacement, so more likely they would have been bought new from Europe (the Tornado wasn't just British, it was a tri nation venture between the UK, West Germany, and Italy).

A quick skim through wiki suggests the F20 programme was cancelled around 1986 after achieving no sales. A sale to Iran might have been a possibility (presumably Northrop would have needed US Government approval) and might have extended the programme if the sale was deemed likely...again, I think it depends on when the Iran Nowin Government came to power - the later it was in the 1980's the less likely an F20 sale in my opinion....

[Olefin]

I almost wondering if the F-20's were a mistake - i.e. one person working on the module said they had Tornados, another used F-20's - also considering how the Saudi's buy spare parts (i.e. they buy enough usually for five to six times the force they deploy) having the Iranian's still able to fly Tornado fighter bombers would make more sense - i.e. the US gets the Saudi's to grudingly give up some of their spares so the Iranians can keep flying - but only enough for a few planes

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by Olefin

I almost wondering if the F-20's were a mistake - i.e. one person working on the module said they had Tornados, another used F-20's - also considering how the Saudi's buy spare parts (i.e. they buy enough usually for five to six times the force they deploy) having the Iranian's still able to fly Tornado fighter bombers would make more sense - i.e. the US gets the Saudi's to grudingly give up some of their spares so the Iranians can keep flying - but only enough for a few planes

F20's are virtually F5s as it is...there's a good degree of parts commonality I believe.

[Rainbow Six]

Interesting to see some of the stuff the Iranians had on order before the Revolution...I knew they had a big order in for F16's (a lot of which I think ended up going to Israel instead) but didn't know they were also looking at F15's and F18's.

Don't forget the French...the Mirage 2000 might have been a good fit for the T2K Iranian Air Force. The Dutch operated the F5 until the 1990's; IRL 72 were sold to Turkey and Venezuela, in T2K they might have gone to Iran instead. The United States did have the 28 embargoed Pakistani F16's which might have been available for sale (in my Survivor's Guide to the UK I had them going to the RAF to replace the Phantoms). Sorry, this isn't helping much when it comes to the Iranian Navy - as you can probably tell planes rather than my boats are my thing!

[Rainbow Six]

If the Iranian Government is deemed reliable a Tornado sale is a distinct possibility. There were two basic variants, the Ground Attack model (GR in RAF parlance) and Air Defence model (F in RAF parlance). Structurally they were slightly different. The Saudis used both.

For the F20 I'd suggest it depends when the module was written and the Iran Nowin came to power - during the first half of the 80's Northrop were looking for buyers - a sale to a friendly Iranian Government would be a big boost for them.

[dragoon500ly]

IRL, the Islamic Republic of Iran Navy consisted of about 12,500 personnal (1,100 officers)

Maritime Aviation assets consisted of 6 ASH-3D Sea King, 7 AB-212, 5 AB-205A, 14 AB-206A and 2 RH-43D helicopters. There are also 2 P-3F Orions, 4 Fokker F-27 Mk400M transports, 4 Flacn 20 and 4 Aero Commander utility transports. The Iranian Air Force also operated 5 C-130H-MP long-range maritime reconnaissance aircraft.

Submarines
2 ex-Soviet Kilo-class submarines were delivered in 1992.

Guided-Missile Destroyers
1 ex UK Battle-class
2 ex US Allen M. Sumner FRAM II-class

Frigates
3 Vosper Mk5-class

Corvettes
2 ex US PF-103-class

Patrol Boats
10 Combattante II-class
3 North Korean Chaho-class
3 ex US PGM-71-class
3 ex US Coast Guard Cape-class

Patrol Craft
32 Aluminum ‘Boghammers’
35 GRP ‘Boghammers’
11 ex US Mk III-class
20 ex US 50-foot-class
20 ex US Swift MkII-class
12 ex US Enforcer-class

Mine Warfare Ships
2 ex US Falcon-class Inshore Minesweepers
1 ex US Cape-class Inshore Minesweeper

Amphibious Warfare Ships
4 Hengam-class LSTs
2 Commercial LSTs
1 Foque-class LCU

Hovercraft
4 BH-7 Wellington-class

Auxiliary Ships
1 large replenishment oiler
2 small replenishment oilers
2 water tankers
7 Delvar-class support ships (2 ammunition, 2 water, 3 cargo)
1 ex US Amphion-class repair ship

Source is the 1993 Combat Fleets of the World

[Green Monkey]

This is not directly relevant but may be of some interest for this topic:

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/6bc1398b6674

Praying Mantis in particular was a pretty big deal. I don't remember how much if any of this content fits with the version 1 timeline though.

Cheers,

Nick