Aliens - 1986 movie (was Dog Soldiers)

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

On the other hand, they did have a complete novice for an officer and they themselves had probably been involved in dozens of combat missions. Trust, or more accurately lack of, was definately an issue. Ensuring the machineguns were operable when going under the reactor was obviously a good thing in the short term (it allowed at least a few to escape), but long term was another matter.

I agree. As it turned out though it was the drop ship crashing into the side of the atmosphere processor that caused it to go critical, not the firing of weapons inside.

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Gorman should have explained WHY firing was not allowed and immediately withdrew the marines, re-equipped them with shotguns, flamers and whatever else non-penetrating they had. Sending them onwards with little more than four flamers was just plain criminal.

Agreed. Gorman should have thought about the location before sending in the section though. Once they were inside the structure their comms were very patchy. A detailed explanation of why weapons should not be fired inside probably would have been half buried in static once they were in.

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Can any of us say they wouldn't have done the same as Vasquez and Drake if in a similar situation?

No. I think Drake and Vasquez did exactly the right thing. Even if they had disrupted the cooling system the facility wouldn't have gone up right away. They all would have had time to get back to the Sulaco and watch the whole facility turn into a glowing glass bowl. Problem solved. Carter Burke was the only one who was insisting that the facility be saved because of the "significant dollar value attached to it". They should have strung him up by the balls at the earliest opportunity.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Targan

As it turned out though it was the drop ship crashing into the side of the atmosphere processor that caused it to go critical, not the firing of weapons inside.

Hmm, must be a different movie you're been watching...
The APC was moving away from the processor and from what I can remember the dropship crashed from the rear of the APC (taking it out in the process) and ended up spread across a very wide area of broken, but open ground.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Hmm, must be a different movie you're been watching...
The APC was moving away from the processor and from what I can remember the dropship crashed from the rear of the APC (taking it out in the process) and ended up spread across a very wide area of broken, but open ground.

Yes the dropship hit the APC, then the bulk of it tumbled into the processing plant. I have the extended edition on my hard drive, you can see it quite clearly. Also the write up of the film in Wikipedia suggests that it was the dropship crash rather than firing inside the facility that caused it to go critical. That makes sense when you consider the difference between the energy released by the relatively small amount of firing inside compared to many tonnes of dropship travelling at high speed, plus ordnance, hitting the side of the facility.

[Legbreaker]

Of course a ten millimetre minigrenade (which is effectively what the guns were firing) at a rate of say ten per second is likely to chew through cooling systems and control circuits pretty damn fast....

[copeab]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Of course a ten millimetre minigrenade (which is effectively what the guns were firing) at a rate of say ten per second is likely to chew through cooling systems and control circuits pretty damn fast....

The Colonial Marines Technical Manual lists the pulse rifle as firing 900 10x24mm rpm and the smart gun as firing 1,200 10x28mm rpm.

[Legbreaker]

So roughly twice as fast as an M60 (650 rpm) and equivilant to the MG-42 the movie weapon used as a base.

I'm rather inpressed Jenette Goldstein was able to throw what must have been a rather heavy rig about so effortlessly. The steadicam mount probably helped, but the total weight must have played hell on her knees.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

So roughly twice as fast as an M60 (650 rpm) and equivilant to the MG-42 the movie weapon used as a base.

I'm rather inpressed Jenette Goldstein was able to throw what must have been a rather heavy rig about so effortlessly. The steadicam mount probably helped, but the total weight must have played hell on her knees.

That's part of why they they chose her over the Latina actresses available -- she had the muscle, but didn't look like a steroid monster.

[copeab]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

I'm rather inpressed Jenette Goldstein was able to throw what must have been a rather heavy rig about so effortlessly. The steadicam mount probably helped, but the total weight must have played hell on her knees.

The CMTM lists the complete weight of the M56 Smart Gun (including harness and ammo) as just under 18kg.

(perhaps we should split this into an Aliens tread now

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by copeab

The Colonial Marines Technical Manual lists the pulse rifle as firing 900 10x24mm rpm and the smart gun as firing 1,200 10x28mm rpm.

That's pretty good for a small projectile! In the book they say part of why it's called a Smart Gun is that the rounds are IR-guided, and could be programmed to ignore specific heat signatures (in the book, they were programmed to avoid humans). That projectile has to have a guidance package, small thrust squibs, and still have enough energy to kill its target!

...and I just thought, that might explain the different sound the Smart Gun makes -- it's the guidance thrusters firing. They'd just be tiny little shots of gas.

[Legbreaker]

I'd always thought the guidance was contained within the weapon itself. If there's a risk of hitting an invalid target, the weapon simply doesn't fire until the barrel is pointing elsewhere. Likewise, the weapon doesn't fire until the targeting software believes there's a good chance of hitting a valid target. The device Hicks gave Ripley (and subsequently handed to Newt) as well as the implanted transmitters the colonists had could act as IFF transmitters and the weapon programed not to fire at them.
Would save a LOT of ammo!

The system could be overridden by the operator though and manually fired even at the risk of hitting unintended targets - this allows for covering fire over areas or at concealed targets.