#31
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It's almost ridiculous how many MGs some of those Vietnam-era gun trucks carried. We're talking 3-5 M2HBs and 2-4 M-60s per truck, in some instances. One even had two 7.62mm Miniguns! Most of them carried an M-79 too. I was surprised that none of the images in the book show AGLs as a gun truck weapon. I know that they were widely used on PBRs by the Brown Water Navy. I wonder why they never caught on as gun truck weapons.
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Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048 https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module |
#32
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Coax machineguns from knocked out AFVs would be useful on trucks also. The added bulk of makeshift butts and trigger mechanisms wouldn't matter that much when mounted.
You might also see coax weapons on tripods and used as SFMG in the indirect role. It's possible they could even be used on trolleys - imagine a pram reworked to carry a machinegun instead of a baby....
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If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives. Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect" Mors ante pudorem |
#33
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(at most you might need a single layer of sandbags under the mortar to absorb the recoil and protect the body). |
#34
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FB |
#35
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By the book, divisions have trucks to distribute supplies to their subordinate units, and to pick up supplies from Army dumps. Army HQs have units to bring supplies forward to dumps from the rear. Corps HQs aren't supposed to run supplies, they plan battles. At least, that's how I understand things in the US Army.
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My Twilight claim to fame: I ran "Allegheny Uprising" at Allegheny College, spring of 1988. |
#36
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GIs also took the time to strip any crashed gunships and stripped them of their M-75 40mm (Cobra) and the M-5 40mm (UH-1 gunships). There is a photo in the national archieves that shows one gun truck fitted with no less than six 40mm AGLs! There are also pics of twin M-60 mounts mounted on each corner of the truck bed. Another favorite mounted on some gun trucks was the E8 35mm 16-tube CS gas grenade launcher, I've seen at least three pics that shows at least two of these units mounted. If you have a chance to check out a copy of Shelby's Vietnam Order of Battle (pg 303), there is an great pic of a M-151 jeep, protected by sandbags and armed with a M-134 7.62mm minigun for the passenger and a Honeywell handcranked GL on a pedestal mount!
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The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis. |
#37
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Re-purposing aviation weapons is the logical choice for things like gun trucks and static positions aswell. On Okinawa the japanese did the same with MG's taken from wrecked aircraft.
In a game I ran the group rigged up 27mm Tornado cannons to defend a German airfield from marauders.
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Better to reign in hell, than to serve in heaven. |
#38
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anti aircraft guns are also good for gun trucks. in iraq one of the local militias had a russian 37mm twin barrel AA gun mounted on the back of a bongo truck.
i wonder if one could mount a 25mm bushmaster from a bradley?
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the best course of action when all is against you is to slow down and think critically about the situation. this way you are not blindly rushing into an ambush and your mind is doing something useful rather than getting you killed. |
#39
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Anyone with armorer expertise want to weigh in on converting an ex-A-10's 30mm gatling into a crew served surface or vehicle mounted weapon?
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"Let's roll." Todd Beamer, aboard United Flight 93 over western Pennsylvania, September 11, 2001. |
#40
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I saw one unmounted at the Davis-Monthan air show year before last. On its own (with its ammo feed and giant drum mag), it's nearly as long as most trucks. The A-10 noticeably slows when firing it. I just don't see it being a viable ground vehicle-mounted weapon unless it's somehow mounted on an MBT chasis.
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Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048 https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module Last edited by Raellus; 09-24-2011 at 11:32 PM. |
#41
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yeah - the GAU-8 is something that just isn't doable short of a very heavy tracked chassis. Even a Hemmit wouldn't be able to take the recoil forces generated by the cannon.
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Member of the Bofors fan club! The M1911 of automatic cannon. Proud fan(atic) of the CV90 Series. |
#42
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Maybe hanging out the back of a dump truck? |
#43
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Better to reign in hell, than to serve in heaven. |
#44
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That would be like Star Cruiser Yamato's Wave Motion Gun, or something from Wiley Coyote Laboratories, Inc. Could one of the barrels be separated out and a breach mechanism machined to make it an anti-armor rifle, like an upscaled Barrett?
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"Let's roll." Todd Beamer, aboard United Flight 93 over western Pennsylvania, September 11, 2001. |
#45
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- C.
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Clayton A. Oliver • Occasional RPG Freelancer Since 1996 Author of The Pacific Northwest, coauthor of Tara Romaneasca, creator of several other free Twilight: 2000 and Twilight: 2013 resources, and curator of an intermittent gaming blog. It rarely takes more than a page to recognize that you're in the presence of someone who can write, but it only takes a sentence to know you're dealing with someone who can't. - Josh Olson |
#46
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#47
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This is actually quite doable- not easy mind, but I would be shocked if more than a few trucks from humvee's on up sporting such a mod in the twilight war.
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Member of the Bofors fan club! The M1911 of automatic cannon. Proud fan(atic) of the CV90 Series. |
#48
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During World War Two, didn't the German's put the 88 on truck beds? My grandfather told me how damn deadly the 88s were, and that they had been really, really hated by infantry and tankers alike.
__________________
Fuck being a hero. Do you know what you get for being a hero? Nothing! You get shot at. You get a little pat on the back, blah blah blah, attaboy! You get divorced... Your wife can't remember your last name, your kids don't want to talk to you... You get to eat a lot of meals by yourself. Trust me kid, nobody wants to be that guy. I do this because there is nobody else to do it right now. Believe me if there was somebody else to do it, I would let them do it. There's not, so I'm doing it. |
#49
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Heavy half-tracks, yes, but not trucks. The 88 produces one big jolt of recoil at a time, though, not like the GAU-8 which produces heavy sustained recoil depending on the burst length.
__________________
Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048 https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module Last edited by Raellus; 09-25-2011 at 05:30 PM. |
#50
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The heaviest guns used in a 'portee' mount (non-permanently mounted in the truck's bed rather than towed) I think were 6-pdrs (57mm) AT guns. A step beyond this was something like the Deacon, an armored truck with a permanent gun in the bed. http://www.brindale.co.uk/ach/prv_si...les/deacon.htm |
#51
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I love gun trucks!!! With that comment... I continue.
In Nam, the first group to implement gun trucks did so with salvage. The companies had only so many machineguns, either M2 or M60, and most of them were allocated to perimeter defense at the base camp... hence the group I'm familiar with (my NCOIC at Eustis was one of the gun truckers) hauled between An Khe and CRB IIRC. The salvage they hauled back to depot, weapons etc, were 'picked over' by the haulers and weapons rebuilt for them by their unit armorers.. totally off the books... The mini's show were slavaged off downed gunships along the highway on a return trip.. and possession was not questions tooooooooo much. LOTS of the firepower came from a/c salvage. BTW, MOST of the gun trucks were five tonners, as they found dueces were too light for the loads they carried when up-armored. As Dragon said, the AGL were a rare item over all. Even with the PBRs they were a rare sight in '69 from my observation (and failing memory). One thing that made the gun trucks real effective was when an ADA quad fifty battery was attached to them. The gunners were ADA, the rest of the truck crew from the owing company. Note that the guns usually traveled in the middle of the convoy so they could respond better to the front or back of the convoy as needed. Just some ramblin memories on the subject. I'm glad to see the higher ups FINALLY learned a lesson and have mission built gun trucks now.. though GI ingenuiety is still at work... when the highers allow it... FB |
#52
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a note on tha Hawgs.. That aircraft is probably the ONLY aircraft built around the gun system ever produced, unlike building the plane and then saying.. gee it needs guns..
Those are awesome birds, purpose built to do a specific job, and they do a J.O.B. on target too.. No way I can see a ground mobile mount for one happening... but then as I said elsewhere, never underestimate GI ingenuity. FB |
#53
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Wiki link of matching info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian...raft_artillery |
#54
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Germans preferred the 20mm for AA use, they built allot of mobile Flakpanzers and where quite effective, just they never had enough. The Wirbelwind was the best of breed.
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Better to reign in hell, than to serve in heaven. |
#55
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Dunno, I think the Germans had something in WWI with a 77mm gun, but I can't track anything down just now.
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My Twilight claim to fame: I ran "Allegheny Uprising" at Allegheny College, spring of 1988. |
#56
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I've skimmed through the thread; am I reading earlier posts right? is it possible to mount an M113 hull on a truck chassis?
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#57
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It's more along the lines of "secure it to the flatbed cargo area" than an M113 with wheels.
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#58
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Correct. They'd strip the engine, transmission, track-related gear from the M113 and then strap it down to the bed of a 5-ton with steel cables. The comms system was usually left intact for the gun crew to use.
__________________
Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048 https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module |
#59
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Although the idea of an M-113 with a "convertible" Christie suspension suddenly intrigues me ...
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#60
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A. Find a need that can't be filled with an existing item. Ground Attack with enough firepower to kill scores of heavy tanks, and armoured/rugged enough to take a beating while doing it. B. Find the right balance between cheap and exactly what is needed to address the issue. Missiles are perfect for tank busting: Accurate, and very very effective. But, and this is where the process hit it out of the park, they are expensive. There was no way the Air Force could justify the building of war stocks of sufficient number of missiles - too darn expensive. Also, they knew that in a WW3 scenario, there wouldn't be the time to ramp up production of high tech items in the quantities needed. But, existing cannon, while cheap on ammo, and easy on maintenance, wasn't quite powerful enough. So, they made a new one, using every lesson learned on gun design. The GAU-8 firing DU ammo. More than able to kill any tank out there from the air, and cheap cheap cheap to use. C. Once A and B are done, *then* build the airplane around the solution for the first problem, while addressing the last one. The A-10 hit this on the head: The plane was designed around both the gun and its ammo, as well as maximum protection for the pilot and control surfaces. In the end, you have a plane that is so freaking good at its job, and relatively cheap to operate, the Air Force (and it has tried, and tried hard) can't kill the thing. Quote:
It was WW2, and it was the Hs129B1 if I recall. Started life as a stock Hs129 (The A-10 of its day when mounted with a mix of 30mm cannon and MG's) and placed a magazine fed 7.5cm KwK40 gun from a Panzer IV where the cannons used to be. Insanely good at busting the heaviest tanks (as well as small warships), pilots loved it till the soviets twigged on, and started operating so that anything with a barrel that long and big in the air becomes the focus of all fighters in the area.
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Member of the Bofors fan club! The M1911 of automatic cannon. Proud fan(atic) of the CV90 Series. |
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