Snake Eaters-1st Cavalry

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by tsofian

Would the Snake Eaters accept that the 1st cavalry is a United States Army unit and a legitimate part of the Government of the Unites States of America? Will they accept the authority of its commissioned and non-commissioned officers?

In the words of President Reagan, "trust, but verify". I think it would be sometime before the Team would make themselves known to 1st Cavalry. First they would infiltrate the area posing as civilians like merchants, truck drivers, even labor to assess the opinions of the people within the 1sts territory. If they an pose as 20 somethings might even "enlist".

The SF even after making themselves known to the 1st would not be working for them. SF has a much shorter chain of command the regular "Big" Army. Often a Army or Theater (4 Star) asset and seldom going below Corps (3 Star). That is intentional so as to not waste the training and talents of specialists on local command recon taskers.

They will be happy in most situations to assist, train, and advise units of the 1st without making themselves subordinates. They're working for a much higher National Command Authority level HQ (NorthCom? 1st Army?, 3rd Army?) that would assign them tasks and from whom their expected support would be coming from. At the size of Snake Eater Teams (Operational Detachment Alpha) it would be reasonable to expect that throughout all of U.S. territory there is two, possibly a third, SF battalions. These are expected to be understrength too, given that SF never has all the personnel needed on any given day anyway. Where they will shine is in the quality of the volunteers.. Their four time volunteers already! Enlisted, Airborne, Ranger, and Special Forces. A SF volunteer already has several years of enlisted time before volunteering for SF and selection making them older and more seasoned persons to begin with. Getting some to quit society (and they don't live in the "real world") facing life on the outside without job skills and adventurous souls staring 45 and 50 years in the mirror will be not so hard. Being frozen to be woken in a time of national crisis would be an easy choice for career soldiers that love their job and hate being forced out because of their age.

Originally Posted by tsofian

An additional issue becomes the massive amount of classified materials found in the cache. The players found a large amount of classified materials from the FBI, CIA, DIA and various other organization. I intend upon using this material for a number of plot hooks. It includes a large number of FBI files on Morrow, so it might have clues to the location of Prime Base.

The other files might have information on things like Damocles. The location of other strategic reserves and such.

How would the Special Forces guys feel about this HUGE amount of classified material. Yes, a lot of it is outdated, but a lot of the material is still relevant. Can they "read in" the Morrow Teams and the soldiers of the 1st?

Doubt it. I doubt that any except the 18A and 180A would give it any look. You can't reveal what you don't know. The first choice would be to give it over to their own command with an intent that this would make it to National command. 1st has no business and Morrow Project has absolutely none with this classified material.

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

In the words of President Reagan, "trust, but verify". I think it would be sometime before the Team would make themselves known to 1st Cavalry. First they would infiltrate the area posing as civilians like merchants, truck drivers, even labor to assess the opinions of the people within the 1sts territory. If they an pose as 20 somethings might even "enlist".

The SF even after making themselves known to the 1st would not be working for them. SF has a much shorter chain of command the regular "Big" Army. Often a Army or Theater (4 Star) asset and seldom going below Corps (3 Star). That is intentional so as to not waste the training and talents of specialists on local command recon taskers.

They will be happy in most situations to assist, train, and advise units of the 1st without making themselves subordinates. They're working for a much higher National Command Authority level HQ (NorthCom? 1st Army?, 3rd Army?) that would assign them tasks and from whom their expected support would be coming from. At the size of Snake Eater Teams (Operational Detachment Alpha) it would be reasonable to expect that throughout all of U.S. territory there is two, possibly a third, SF battalions. These are expected to be understrength too, given that SF never has all the personnel needed on any given day anyway. Where they will shine is in the quality of the volunteers.. Their four time volunteers already! Enlisted, Airborne, Ranger, and Special Forces. A SF volunteer already has several years of enlisted time before volunteering for SF and selection making them older and more seasoned persons to begin with. Getting some to quit society (and they don't live in the "real world") facing life on the outside without job skills and adventurous souls staring 45 and 50 years in the mirror will be not so hard. Being frozen to be woken in a time of national crisis would be an easy choice for career soldiers that love their job and hate being forced out because of their age.




Doubt it. I doubt that any except the 18A and 180A would give it any look. You can't reveal what you don't know. The first choice would be to give it over to their own command with an intent that this would make it to National command. 1st has no business and Morrow Project has absolutely none with this classified material.

Yep, the twin requirements: Clearance and NEED TO KNOW! Also if one wants more personnel for the snake eaters, a few AF Special elements of 2 Combat Controllers and 2 Pararescue might be added. This would give the teams 2 more medics/ marksmen and 2 more comm, demo personnel. IRL there aren't that many that such wouldn't be missed, but this is a game.....

[tsofian]

Clearance and Need to know, yes. However in the distant post war era a whole lot of things are going to go out the window.

The SF teams may want the classified material but to what extreme are they willing to go to get it? One of the issues will be that there are very few SF soldiers left. They have far fewer resources than either MP or their Texas allies and combined those two groups are far more powerful in all ways than the SF units. Not only that but Texas represents the most "American" set of survivors yet discovered. Can the SF troops go to war against Texas over this secure material.

Also the SF troops are good but are they better than the best of Morrow Project or the best of the soldiers in Texas? I always had a working class grunt's distrust of special operations troops, so I am biased.

I'm not sure how strong a hand the snake eaters have to play. They are pragmatic men, so what will they put on the table to control this cache?

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by tsofian

Clearance and Need to know, yes. However in the distant post war era a whole lot of things are going to go out the window.

Not to the SF troops or to the MP personnel.... individually and subjectively little time has past.

Originally Posted by tsofian

The SF teams may want the classified material but to what extreme are they willing to go to get it? One of the issues will be that there are very few SF soldiers left. They have far fewer resources than either MP or their Texas allies and combined those two groups are far more powerful in all ways than the SF units. Not only that but Texas represents the most "American" set of survivors yet discovered. Can the SF troops go to war against Texas over this secure material.

The Project personnel will wake up smothered in stun grenades with a side order of riot gas if the SF is feeling generous.

SF soldiers are the product of a peer, not leader, review process that removes less qualified.. Those are then processed through the best schools the DoD has and then the best schools that Allies have.

SF versus the Project? Would be like feeding poodles to pit bulls. TMP wouldn't stand a chance.

The SF will seize it and remove it from the area until National command Authority is established and aknowledged.

Originally Posted by tsofian

Also the SF troops are good but are they better than the best of Morrow Project or the best of the soldiers in Texas? I always had a working class grunt's distrust of special operations troops, so I am biased.

By Orders of Magnitude... I would argue that the SF of the 1960s is better than the SF of 2017 on a one to one in Guerilla warfare and living off the land.

Originally Posted by tsofian

I'm not sure how strong a hand the snake eaters have to play. They are pragmatic men, so what will they put on the table to control this cache?

A loyal indigenous strike force armed with modern small arms. Led, trained, and motivated by the best insurgent warfare specialists since the Apache.

[tsofian]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

SF versus the Project? Would be like feeding poodles to pit bulls. TMP wouldn't stand a chance.

The SF will seize it and remove it from the area until National command Authority is established and aknowledged.



A loyal indigenous strike force armed with modern small arms. Led, trained, and motivated by the best insurgent warfare specialists since the Apache.

We'll just have to agree to disagree about the fighting potential and strategic value of special operations forces.

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by tsofian

We'll just have to agree to disagree about the fighting potential and strategic value of special operations forces.

Why? One of the early arguments against the Special forces was the drain of the top tier NCOs from the regular forces? Their skills balance the lack of rebuilding material, and I got the impression from the game that the team would ally and provide that material if negotiations succeeded. It was an opportunity to role play, combat was to be avoided. The snake eaters had the advantage of establishing camps that could be self supporting in a guerilla campaign, this could work easily in post war America.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by tsofian

We'll just have to agree to disagree about the fighting potential and strategic value of special operations forces.

What?

The little upper 0.01 percent of the total Army in selection just for the opportunity to be considered.

1)Must be E4 (P) Specialist promotable, that is passed the promotion board at their regular Army unit prior to application. Additionally it is preferred that the Soldier has already passed Airborne school.

2) Pass the SF physial. This is more than just the Airborne physical.

3) Pass the swim test (100 meters in Uniform, boots, LBE, Kevlar, with rubber duck.

4) Have your application chosen by SF Branch.

5) Be invited to attend Special Forces Assessment / Selection course at the JFK Special Warfare school, Ft Bragg, NC.

6) Pass the SFAS by peer and instructor review. This is grueling on its own and spits out more than half of want to be applicants.

7)Pass selection, be released by your regular Army MOS for reclassification to SF branch.

8) Attend the multi week Speial Forces Qualification Course at Ft.Bragg and get a pass on the final FTX (Robin Sage).

9)Got to MOS school, Weapons, Medical, Commo, Intel. This is two years to four years depending on MOS.

10) fast track through Sniper, Jumpmaster, Pathfinder, Air Assault, Ranger, Sapper, and Basic Noncommissioned Officer Course. Attend Advanced Noncommisioned Officer is E6 or above. Attend Air Force and Marine corps schools like small boats or Loadmaster.

Officers to Captains course.

11) In between Regular Army schools attend civilian relatable schools like mountaineering, emergency medical technician, telephone lineman, electrician, veterinary technician.

More than $1,000, 000 in training is possible before being assigned to a ODA.

I don't know what your experience with SF is..... But, if my players tried to do battle with SF (such as Ruins of Chicago) this would be a total party kill and time to roll up some new characters.

A SF weapons Sergeant.. Probably the youngest and most junior is probably formerly Infantry or Engineer (Sapper) with six years in before SFQ.

The Army and SF branch will have invested more in this mere E5 (P) than the average Infantry Captain and will expect far, far more.

To act as a Leader, Trainer, and Mentor to local forces in their own language, their own culture, and to live among them. Then to take them into battle as their leader or to bolster the indigenous leadership. AT the bleeding edge of supply or to lack ordinary supply at all.

This isn't even Delta Force or Seal Team Six which only select the best of again volunteers from within their own teams. Another 0.01% of already 0.01%.

[tsofian]

SF soldiers die just like anyone else. They have had some notable successes, but have also had some failures. A SEAL team got hammered during Just Cause in Panama https://www.navysealmuseum.org/about...eals-in-panama.

"The platoons continued with all possible speed to reach the PDF hangars on the northwestern side of the runway. At that point the SEALs had determined that General Noriega’s jet had been moved into one of the hangars. The two squads took up position the within 100 feet of the hangar, when they received several long bursts of fire.

In the initial volley, eight of the nine SEALs were wounded. House guards across the airfield also began to fire upon their position; putting them in a deadly cross-fire. Several SEALs were now dead, and those that weren’t were having a hard time dealing with wounds and getting out of their heavy man-packed equipment."

In the Post War the SE have probably figured out a couple of things

A) There will likely never be a National Command Authority ever again.

B) Each trooper is now an irreplaceable resource.

C) Tangling with the Morrow Project will likely result in SE casualties, even if they do wipe out the party the cost might well be very expensive.

D) The MP may offer the best chance of rebuilding the USA

Also I think MARS teams have a pretty high percentage of ex special operation soldiers. In addition the training you mention below would not be that different from what MARS teams get, at least in my project (ymmv). Every MP team member is a unique resource and MARS teams are not only that, but are designated to protect the rest of the resources of the project. This means, to me, that the Project would spare little expense at recruiting, training and equipping MARS teams to the highest possible standard.

Do I think an SF team could be some serious hurt onto non MARS MP? Absolutely. Do I think an SF team that just woke up and had all its ammo and equipment would have an edge on a similar Morrow Team? Yep, but not a walkover level of superiority. If the level of supply was tilted one way or another that would tilt the equation considerably. Yes I know the SoF soldiers are supposed to be able to destroy an armored division, naked and armed only with a pine cone, but if they cool toys didn't help things they wouldn't issue them.

Like I said, I was a working class grunt. As such I might be a little slanted in my opinion.

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

What?

The little upper 0.01 percent of the total Army in selection just for the opportunity to be considered.

1)Must be E4 (P) Specialist promotable, that is passed the promotion board at their regular Army unit prior to application. Additionally it is preferred that the Soldier has already passed Airborne school.

2) Pass the SF physial. This is more than just the Airborne physical.

3) Pass the swim test (100 meters in Uniform, boots, LBE, Kevlar, with rubber duck.

4) Have your application chosen by SF Branch.

5) Be invited to attend Special Forces Assessment / Selection course at the JFK Special Warfare school, Ft Bragg, NC.

6) Pass the SFAS by peer and instructor review. This is grueling on its own and spits out more than half of want to be applicants.

7)Pass selection, be released by your regular Army MOS for reclassification to SF branch.

8) Attend the multi week Speial Forces Qualification Course at Ft.Bragg and get a pass on the final FTX (Robin Sage).

9)Got to MOS school, Weapons, Medical, Commo, Intel. This is two years to four years depending on MOS.

10) fast track through Sniper, Jumpmaster, Pathfinder, Air Assault, Ranger, Sapper, and Basic Noncommissioned Officer Course. Attend Advanced Noncommisioned Officer is E6 or above. Attend Air Force and Marine corps schools like small boats or Loadmaster.

Officers to Captains course.

11) In between Regular Army schools attend civilian relatable schools like mountaineering, emergency medical technician, telephone lineman, electrician, veterinary technician.

More than $1,000, 000 in training is possible before being assigned to a ODA.

I don't know what your experience with SF is..... But, if my players tried to do battle with SF (such as Ruins of Chicago) this would be a total party kill and time to roll up some new characters.

A SF weapons Sergeant.. Probably the youngest and most junior is probably formerly Infantry or Engineer (Sapper) with six years in before SFQ.

The Army and SF branch will have invested more in this mere E5 (P) than the average Infantry Captain and will expect far, far more.

To act as a Leader, Trainer, and Mentor to local forces in their own language, their own culture, and to live among them. Then to take them into battle as their leader or to bolster the indigenous leadership. AT the bleeding edge of supply or to lack ordinary supply at all.

This isn't even Delta Force or Seal Team Six which only select the best of again volunteers from within their own teams. Another 0.01% of already 0.01%.