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Old 06-21-2017, 05:44 PM
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Default PMC's Before T2k

So my campaign regularly has contact with a PMC that is loosely based on MP, having both a Security and a Science Division.

I have this corporation taking over the security on several Airfields, Power plants and other assorted government facilities.

Any thoughts from the experts on what the PMC world looked like back in 1995 forward in a T2K world? Real life examples or pure T2K...
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Old 06-21-2017, 05:46 PM
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PMC - Private Military Contractor I'm assuming?

MP would then be Morrow Project
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Old 06-21-2017, 05:55 PM
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Yes thank you.
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Old 06-21-2017, 10:37 PM
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I'm sure that they were around earlier, but I don't recall reading/hearing much about PMCs until after Operation Enduring Freedom and Blackwater. The earliest PMC I can remember being aware of was Executive Outcomes, based out of South Africa, I believe. They operated in West Africa in the late '90s. Maybe you could EO as a model for your PMCs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Outcomes
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Old 06-21-2017, 11:01 PM
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Maybe consult old issues of 'soldier of fortune'?
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Old 06-22-2017, 10:05 AM
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The first of the "modern" PMCs is WatchGuard International formed in 1965 by Sir David Stirling of SAS fame. Stirling later left WatchGuard and founded KAS International in 1972.

During the 70s and 80s, Control Risks Groups and Defence Systems was formed.

Based on the limited amount of research I've been able to do, prior to the Twilight War, PMCs tend to be heavily British in nature, recruiting from SAS, SBS and Paras for the most part, and acting (unofficially of course) in British interests.
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Old 06-22-2017, 02:31 PM
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Here is a few I found

Executive Outcomes was a private military company (PMC) founded in South Africa by former Lieutenant-Colonel of the South African Defence Force Eeben Barlow in 1989.

Pinkerton, founded as the Pinkerton National Detective Agency, is a private security guard and detective agency established in the United States by Allan Pinkerton in 1850

Securitas, is a security services (security guarding and mobile patrolling), monitoring, consulting and investigation group, founded in Stockholm, Sweden in 1934.

Corporate Training Unlimited, The firm was founded by Donald Feeney Jr. in 1986. He is a former Delta Force team leader who chose to retire from the US Army in lieu of a Courts Martial after auditors discovered several false claims on travel vouchers. The firm sent civilian guards to the war zone during the 1991 Gulf War.

DynCorp International, is an American Global service provider. Begun as an aviation company in 1946, the company also provides flight operations support, training and mentoring, international development, intelligence training and support, contingency operations, security, and operations and maintenance of land vehicles

Military Professional Resources Inc, Incorporated in 1987 by eight former senior military leaders. MPRI is a global provider of private military contractor services. It offered a wide range of professional services to both public and private customers, most notably the U.S. Department of Defense, the U.S. Department of State, the U.S. Department of Justice, Law Enforcement organizations, foreign governments, government agencies and commercial businesses.

KBR, Inc. (formerly Kellogg Brown & Root) is an American engineering, procurement, and construction company, formerly a subsidiary of Halliburton. The company also has large offices in Arlington, Virginia, Birmingham, Alabama, and Newark, Delaware, in the United States and Leatherhead in the UK. After Halliburton acquired Dresser Industries in 1998, Dresser's engineering subsidiary, The M. W. Kellogg Co., was merged with Halliburton's construction subsidiary, Brown & Root, to form Kellogg Brown & Root. KBR and its predecessors have received many contracts with the U.S. military including during World War II, the Vietnam War, and the Iraq War.

AirScan Inc. was formed in 1984 by former US Air Commandos Walter Holloway and John Mansur with high standards of recruitment. They have been specializing in airborne surveillance, security operations, surveillance systems, wildlife surveys and training since 1989. They are one of the few companies able to operate unmanned aerial vehicles.

The Wackenhut Corporation is a United States security services company, it was founded as The Wackenhut Corporation in 1954, in Coral Gables, Florida, by George Wackenhut and three partners all former FBI agents.

Jorge Scientific Corporation is an American private military company with its headquarters located in Arlington, Virginia, providing counterinsurgency and intelligence, secure logistics and technology, cyber and advanced network infrastructure, and analysis and program management services to U.S. defense, Intelligence and federal civilian government customers. The company was established in 1986 by Judith Jorge Hartman, the founder and chairman

MVM is a company headquartered in Ashburn, Virginia, United States.It is a private security contractor that provides security contractors, staffing, training, translation and related services to U.S. Government clients. Found in 1979 by Dario O. Marquez, Jr., a former distinguished United States Secret Service agent. In the 1980s, MVM was awarded a contract by the U.S. Department of State to supply Cleared American Guards (CAG) to U.S. embassies throughout the world. Following the 1991 Haitian coup d'état and subsequent reinstatement of Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide in 1994, MVM became the first private American firm to protect a foreign head of state in his own homeland.

The White Legion was a mercenary unit during the First Congo War (1996–97) employed on the side of Zaire President Mobutu Sese Seko. This group of several hundred men, mostly from former Yugoslavia, was given the task of defending the city of Kisangani and training Zairian troops. This effort was largely unsuccessful and in mid-March 1997 the mercenaries left the country.

As a side note Blackwater was founded 1997 by Erik Dean Prince when he left the the Navy seals in 1995. Don't see is happening in in Twilight
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Old 06-22-2017, 11:27 PM
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Most mercenaries seem to be ex-us, ex-british/Commonwealth, and ex-yugoslavian soldiers. It wouldn't be hard to create any myriad of smaller Merc units or freelance individuals in almost any major conflict zone... Reminds me of Farcry 2. And if you're playing a v2/2.2 story line, you could have ex-soviet/pact mercs too. Also ex-IRA, ex-foriegn legion, ex-portugese...

Last edited by Draq; 06-22-2017 at 11:53 PM.
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Old 06-23-2017, 12:14 AM
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Why not check out the Merc:2000 supplement that was produced for Twilight:2000 for some ideas.
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Old 06-23-2017, 12:22 AM
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So for the most part, these are companies with small numbers of fairly well trained people doing specific tasks.

I wasn't even sure if they were very popular pre-T2K, thanks for the information.

I can see these guys starting there own little towns/communities at their last assignment maybe...
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Old 06-23-2017, 09:05 AM
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If you have time read "No Mean Soldier" by Peter McAleese. It's an interesting autobiography where he progresses from the British Paras and SAS in the 1960 to being a mercenary in the 1970 onwards, including working in Angola, South Africa and Colombia up to the early 1990s (I think).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/No-Mean-Sol.../dp/1857972503
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Old 06-23-2017, 01:56 PM
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Or watch The Wild Geese. Classic film...
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Old 06-23-2017, 03:40 PM
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Couple of items of interest...

The Addition to the Geneva Convention of 20 August, 1949, Article 47 of Protocol I, in its opening sentence states, "A mercenary shall not have the right to be a combatant or prisoner of war." In essence they are an illegal combatant and denied the protection of the Geneva Conventions.

On 20 October, 2001, we have the United Nations International Convention Against the Recruiment, Use, Financing and Training of Mercenaries, Article 2 makes it an offence to employ mercenaries. This has been ratified by 35 nations. But has not been signed by the People's Republic of China, France, India, Japan, Russia, the United Kingdom and the US.

Basically, you can't be a mercenary because if you are captured, you can be shot out of hand. The UN doesn't approve of PMCs because they consider them to be mercenaries, although many nation-states do use PMCs, and if they are used in foreign countries, there are agreements that the hiring country makes that either gives them immunity (State Department's use of PMCs as security) or requires the hiring country to guarantee the behaviour of the PMC.
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Old 06-23-2017, 03:54 PM
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This thread is interesting to me as I am working on a modern game environment where PMCs supported by massive mega-corps are evolving into something more of an Intelligence agency. Where they perform both Intelligence gathering and special ops missions. That why I expressed and interest in the early stages of the OSS (in the non fiction thread) as I can see some parallel developments.
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Old 06-23-2017, 04:10 PM
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Thats sort of where I am going as well, the Post T2K East India Trading Company meets New America meets The Morrow Project! Hahaha!!!

I was trying to figure out if in that timeline in RL that a PMC might have the numbers and authority to be as heavily involved as they are in our Campaign.

We have them engaged in many areas as a way to give the Players support considering the daunting effort to rebuild the US. Sort of like a player "Patron" from the MERC world.

"How do we get this power plant back online? Does DHI have a Sciences Team in the area?"
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Old 06-23-2017, 04:25 PM
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Remember that when T2K first was published, The A-Team was on TV. So you could have a group like that in the post-war world...
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Old 06-23-2017, 05:14 PM
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Not that the Geneva convention means much after the TDM... And technically after shtf everyone is a mercenary, some just have national/political ties too.
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Old 09-17-2018, 03:30 PM
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How about large scale mercenary forces?

I am reading the "Pacific" write up and they talk about them alot. Plus, the Merc Gazetteer states Australia actually hired brigades worth to defend and occupy Papua New Guinea?

I could see them stemming from Central American countries in the 90's...
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Old 09-17-2018, 10:38 PM
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One thing that I read someplace, do not remember where and never double checked if it is true or not. But anyway on to it, that being you are not a mercenary if your nation is involved with the conflict, so for example Blackwater in Iraq 2003 is not a mercenary as the US in involved in the fight, but if they were to be involved in say the Iran/Iraq war then they would have been as the US was not involved in that war. Now I am not sure if this only applies to the country of the company, the country of the individual or both.
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Old 09-17-2018, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalos72 View Post
Plus, the Merc Gazetteer states Australia actually hired brigades worth to defend and occupy Papua New Guinea?
Speaking as an Australian ex soldier, I can't see that happening as described, however they might be enlisted into the army perhaps even as a whole unit with fast tracked training, or cash may be provided to PNG so that they are technically the employing party (not like we don't already prop up the PNG government financially).
But the Australian government directly hiring mercenaries? No, not likely.
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Old 09-18-2018, 07:31 AM
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And it should be mentioned that historically, the Australian government has condemned mercenaries and even sought to prosecute Australians who have worked as mercs (there was one case decades ago where an ex-Aussie Army soldier was helping the Karen rebels in Burma and the Aussie govt made it almost impossible for him to return to Australia without getting arrested).

This dislike has also extended to PMCs with some Australian former military personnel, having applied to join PMCs, being told that they are no longer welcome in the Australian military.
So yeah, the Merc: 2000 books suffer from the writers not knowing much about Australia (the list of Australian military smallarms is a perfect example).
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Old 09-18-2018, 09:03 AM
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Wow, I get it after Blackwater and the whole deal.

But do you think Australia would really prefer to send its own troops to defend New Guinea from an Indonesian Communist assault come T2k?

I mean I would think all bets are off once the nukes start dropping...

After reading up on Blackwater and the RL rise of PMC's in the US military, I am thinking there would be much more liberal use of them in a T2k world.

And to the point its armies vs small groups of security forces guarding an embassy...

I am listening to "Blackwater: The rise of the words most powerful mercenary army" and its REALLY telling about the mindset of the people in charge at the time.
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Old 09-18-2018, 11:02 AM
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PNG is almost like an extra state of Australia, and was under our direct control until 1975. There's still very close ties, and militarily it's the location of one of the key events in our history - the battles of the Kokoda track.
As mentioned previously, we also send quite a lot of money there to subsidise the government, and a number of Australia resource companies have large scale operations (mines, etc) there.
Note also Australia was the main country to go to East Timor's aid in 1999, well before the UN became involved with New Zealand contributing the second largest contingent, the largest they'd sent anywhere since the Korean War.

Australia's sent troops into the area, and will very likely do it again if needed.

As an aside, back when I was still a reservist and before I went full time, there was a rumour floating about that if Australia sent another 100 soldiers over seas, a reserve unit would need to be activated to maintain the minimum number of troops necessary within our own borders. Can't say how true it was, but given just a few short years later reservists were indeed being called up, given additional training and sent to reinforce regular (full time) units in various locations through the Pacific and I believe Afghanistan and Iraq.
Worth noting too that reservists have NEVER been required to leave our own borders, except for the couple of battalions sent to PNG in WWII and supposedly employed as labourers (of course two of those poorly trained and equipped battalions soon found themselves advancing across the mountains before conducting a desperate fighting withdrawal against 10,000 of Japan's best).
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Old 09-18-2018, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalos72 View Post
Wow, I get it after Blackwater and the whole deal.

...

I am listening to "Blackwater: The rise of the words most powerful mercenary army" and its REALLY telling about the mindset of the people in charge at the time.
Just wondering what deal with Blackwater are you talking about?
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Old 09-18-2018, 01:50 PM
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That was one of the reason for calling the mrec up Leg, that having to do it with Australian Nationals would deplete the local labor pool. So in that sense, maybe it would happen.

Blackwater and all PMC's with the US were given immunity from any action while under contract. The whole national military complex in the US sought to use PMC's as private military armies, not under Congressional control or oversight. Its really gotten out of control...
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Old 09-18-2018, 10:12 PM
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Once the war starts in earnest though, many of those mercs are going to find themselves conscripted or recalled into service by their original nations.
The mercs that are left will be from non-combatant countries, most of which don't exactly have a reputation for producing well trained and disciplined soldiers.
Don't imagine many Western countries will be all that interested in using the dregs that are left for anything other than distant and low priority jobs - PNG is neither distant, nor low priority to Australia.
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Old 09-18-2018, 11:26 PM
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There seems to be some confusion about the term Private Military Contractor here. A PMC is a private (non-militarily conscripted) person EMPLOYED by a government agency. They are not "legally" a "Mercenary" as one is defined in the UN Convention Against the Use, Recruitment, Financing, and Training of Mercenaries. This is because they are considered "support personnel" of a given agency or military. This is also why they are NOT subject to the laws of the host country (in the same way Military & Diplomatic personnel are also not subject to a host country's laws). They are bound by the laws of the country who is employing them (in other words, Blackwater's misdeeds are tried in US Courts NOT Iraq's). This is to prevent the host country from using THEIR judicial system to punish PMCs for behavior that might not be viewed as "criminal" by the employing country.

There is a second class of individual (which I have performed as) that is also NOT a "Mercenary" even though they may be armed on occasion. The "Security Contractor" is a specific exemption in the UN covering what are essentially "Protective Specialists." A "Protective Specialist" is a security guard or bodyguard who is protecting either a person or property and is properly registered with the host country. They may or may not be armed according to the host country's own laws. A Protective Specialist or Security Contractor IS SUBJECT to the host country's laws so they must be very careful when operating inside a host country.

The next class of armed individual you may encounter in a country is the "Peacekeeper." "Peacekeepers" are always vetted by the UN and may be deployed by the UN or another country on behalf of the UN. They are euphemistically called "blue hats" because they are often issued blue US M1 helmets with the letters UN in white on the sides. "Blue hats" may be civilian LE or ex-military but are all recruited by the UN itself. I had a coworker who served with the UN peacekeepers in East Timor. He was issued a .38 S&W Model 10 with 2 speedloaders and assigned a town to patrol in order to prevent Muslim terrorists with AKs from killing Christians. He was lucky because he was near ANZAC forces but others who signed up for the 18-month tour were not so lucky. He would tell you that UN support of its "peacekeepers" leaves MUCH to be desired.

Finally, we address what is the UN's concept of the "Mercenary." "Mercenaries" are individuals who specifically come to fight a war against or for the "host country." The US military personnel who went back to Iraq to fight alongside the Kurds against DASH (ISIS) would be classified as "Mercenaries" under the UN's Convention on Mercenaries.

Last edited by swaghauler; 09-21-2018 at 06:44 PM. Reason: elaborate on my post
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:04 AM
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No confusion on my part but there is on the part of the Australian government. As far as they are concerned ANY private military organization is too naughty to be acceptable and in the eyes of successive Australian governments PMC = mercenary.
And it should be noted that this attitude existed long before Australia had even heard of Blackwater and even Executive Outcomes - the ex-soldier I mentioned who was helping the Karen people was doing so in the late 1980s-early 1990s.
The distrust the Australian government has towards any non-state owned military groups/personnel has even extended to some Australians who had joined the French Foreign Legion.

This sort of thing was occurring in the 1970s-1980s with the Aussie government implying that anyone joining the FFL was probably some sort of criminal escaping justice. That attitude changed in the late 80s but as a friend of mine who joined the FFL in the late 80s found out when he finished up in the early 90s and returned to Australia, he was considered "unacceptable" for some government jobs even though he was qualified.

Now having said all that, it's your gameworld, do what you want but if you want to follow the retarded (and oft times puritanical) thinking of the Aussie government in real life, this would be the result.
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Old 09-19-2018, 03:16 AM
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Also worth bearing in mind that the Australian government treats lever action shotguns as "new technology" and therefore should be banned as too scary for anyone to own.

Any task which another country might use mercs or PMCs for, Australia uses the SASR. Not like there's really any better trained operators on the planet anyway...
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Old 09-19-2018, 07:37 AM
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Well, apparently Australia would send its own troops to save PNG.

The rest of the world however, doesnt appear to have such high standards. I am SURE the most of the major combatants would have no problem with hiring extra hands to get things done was they were fully committed.

The timeline in the US fits well with T2k considering the push here started in 1992ish...
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