The ANZACs in T2k

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

I know you probably have all the land forces stuff covered but for navy and air force I might have something you can use.

Given the very limited naval and air assets in the rest of the world, I'll probably minimise Australian capability in those areas also. We already know Australian SAS used a French sub to get to Poland (scenario "What's Polish for G'day"), so it's likely there's no Australian assets capable of making the journey, and Australia's usual first contribution to any military action (Korea in this case) is usually air power. Against Soviet pilots and aircraft it doesn't seem likely many are left.
However, if you (or anyone else) has any suggestions in those areas, lets hear them.

[RN7]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Given the very limited naval and air assets in the rest of the world, I'll probably minimise Australian capability in those areas also. We already know Australian SAS used a French sub to get to Poland (scenario "What's Polish for G'day"), so it's likely there's no Australian assets capable of making the journey, and Australia's usual first contribution to any military action (Korea in this case) is usually air power. Against Soviet pilots and aircraft it doesn't seem likely many are left.
However, if you (or anyone else) has any suggestions in those areas, lets hear them.

I would say air assets would be an area that Australian could upgrade in T2K, and fairly quickly as well. They use mainly American equipment and America would have ramped up aircraft production leading up to Twilight. Australia is wealthy enough and is close enough of ally to have been able to buy new build or reconditioned fast jets, transports and helicopters. Maybe some from the UK and France as well.

BTW if you want some information about Australian forces at this time I can give you what I have. I've just come back to Europe from the States this morning and I'm really jet lagged, but I will have a look later in the week.

[Rainbow Six]

At one point in time (maybe around 15 – 20 years ago) someone (I don’t know who) had a write up for an ANZAC (plus attached Pacific Islanders iirc) unit in Germany. The premise was they’d gathered together assorted Aussie / NZ / Fijian personnel that had been in theatre (UN peacekeepers, training teams, personnel on exchange postings, Australian Federal Police, I think even a couple of Defence Attaches, etc) and consolidated them into one Company sized unit. Obviously it was non canon.

I don’t know if said site still exists and my google fu (admittedly restricted by being at work) isn’t coming up with anything – maybe someone else remembers it or has a link to it?

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by RN7

I would say air assets would be an area that Australian could upgrade in T2K, and fairly quickly as well. They use mainly American equipment and America would have ramped up aircraft production leading up to Twilight. Australia is wealthy enough and is close enough of ally to have been able to buy new build or reconditioned fast jets, transports and helicopters. Maybe some from the UK and France as well.

Lol!
You really don't understand Australian government procurement procedures do you? Usually if the military wants something, it spends a good decade being argued about by the politicians and then MAYBE there's an order put in for delivery sometime in the following decade. By the time we actually get our hands on it, it's already a generation old!
Take our tanks for example, used M1s from the 1980 we received only a few years ago (albeit fully reconditioned and upgraded).
Also, Australia really isn't that wealthy, certainly not enough to be splashing loads of cash around. And then there's the small issue of WWIII being well under way by the time the need for additional planes is recognised - supply just wouldn't be there.

Originally Posted by RN7

BTW if you want some information about Australian forces at this time I can give you what I have. I've just come back to Europe from the States this morning and I'm really jet lagged, but I will have a look later in the week.

Anything you've got is appreciated. Note there's no huge rush, right now I'm just gathering information which I expect will take me a few months to sort through and reorganise into something coherent.

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

At one point in time (maybe around 15 – 20 years ago) someone (I don’t know who) had a write up for an ANZAC (plus attached Pacific Islanders iirc) unit in Germany. The premise was they’d gathered together assorted Aussie / NZ / Fijian personnel that had been in theatre (UN peacekeepers, training teams, personnel on exchange postings, Australian Federal Police, I think even a couple of Defence Attaches, etc) and consolidated them into one Company sized unit. Obviously it was non canon.

I remember seeing that myself. Struck me as a bit unbelievable and their ham-fisted homebrew method of including Australians and New Zealanders in the European war.
I may actually have a hard copy of that site floating about somewhere...

[RN7]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Lol!
You really don't understand Australian government procurement procedures do you? Usually if the military wants something, it spends a good decade being argued about by the politicians and then MAYBE there's an order put in for delivery sometime in the following decade. By the time we actually get our hands on it, it's already a generation old!
Take our tanks for example, used M1s from the 1980 we received only a few years ago (albeit fully reconditioned and upgraded).
Also, Australia really isn't that wealthy, certainly not enough to be splashing loads of cash around. And then there's the small issue of WWIII being well under way by the time the need for additional planes is recognised - supply just wouldn't be there...

But in wartime they probably think like that, and especially with Indonesia just to the north becoming expansionist. Where is South Irian?

Nearly everything Australia used at that time (and now) is American and they train with the Americans, I don't think there would be to much problem getting American aircraft. Not F-15's but certainly F-18's, some F-111's and a lot of helicopters and some C-130's and P-3s.

[Raellus]

Something that is easy to forget when talking about expanding an air force (in general) is the time it takes to train pilots and ground crew. Learning to fly and/or service an advanced jet attack-fighter takes many man hours, with time in the classroom, simulators, gliders or prop-planes, and jet trainers.

So, Australia might be able to get a hold of more F-18s and whatnot, but it's also going to need qualified pilots to fly them, and technicians to service the greater numbers of aircraft (one would also need more radar operators, in-flight refuelers, etc.) and those factors are going limit the size and speed of AF expansion.

Similar strictures apply to the expansion of a navy as well.

[Raellus]

I included a reformed ANZUK Brigade in my Korean Peninsula Sourcebook. I researched likely units to include in the OOB, but my sources were rather limited and I wasn't particularly satisfied with what I came up with.

Legbreaker, IF you end up working up a more accurate Australian OOB for your planned sourcebook, I would be happy to include a revised ANZUK Brigade OOB in an updated version of the KPSB. You would of course receive a credit in said version for your trouble. Let me know.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

At one point in time (maybe around 15 – 20 years ago) someone (I don’t know who) had a write up for an ANZAC (plus attached Pacific Islanders iirc) unit in Germany. The premise was they’d gathered together assorted Aussie / NZ / Fijian personnel that had been in theatre (UN peacekeepers, training teams, personnel on exchange postings, Australian Federal Police, I think even a couple of Defence Attaches, etc) and consolidated them into one Company sized unit. Obviously it was non canon.

I don’t know if said site still exists and my google fu (admittedly restricted by being at work) isn’t coming up with anything – maybe someone else remembers it or has a link to it?

Found it.
I'd saved the page back in 2009. Don't think I'll be using any of it - most of what's there is preposterous.

Attachment 4166

[Legbreaker]

I don't suppose anyone wants to map out the locations of all the Australian army reserve barracks as they were around the mid 90's?
Regular army barracks and some reserve unit HQ's are easy - the scattered platoons and companies on the other hand....

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Off the top of my head and remember that this is what I recall from the 1990s so cross-checking is probably needed : -

Western Australia

16 Battalion, RWAR, Infantry
HQ, Support/admin/etc. & B Coy - Irwin Barracks, Karrakatta, Perth
A Coy - Geraldton
C Coy - Kalgoorlie, (my last unit) was in transition from understrength Company to overstrength Reconnaissance Platoon. This would have been complete by the mid-90s
Support Coy included 81mm mortars and 7.62mm SFMG

11/28 Battalion, RWAR, Infantry
Now if memory serves me correctly, Targan was 11/28 so he would be the one to ask because I"m working from second-hand info.
HQ, Support/admin/etc. & B Coy (I'm uncertain of this) - Irwin Barracks, Karakatta, Perth
A Coy: -
1st Platoon - Bunbury
2nd Platoon - Albany
3rd Platoon - Katanning
I think HQ A Coy was in Bunbury but again, I am not certain
C Coy: -
I don't know but a platoon sized unit was based in Rockingham and I think this might have been the core of C Coy.
D Coy: - Irwin Barracks
I am not certain of the setup with 11/28 because at that time, some Reserve Infantry units were being strengthened with one Regular Army company

10 Light Horse, Armoured Recce
HQ, support/etc. and A Squadron - Irwin Barracks
A Vehicles included: - M113 LRV, M548 TLC, M113 Fitter's Vehicle, M577 ACV (no 76mm MRV from what I recall)

Other Reserve units in Perth at that time included, (note that I have no idea of strength, organization etc. etc.)
7 Field Battery, Medium Arty, at Irwin Barracks (I think they've been neutered and carry 81mm now)
? Field Ambulance (don't recall designation), was formerly at the Artillery Barracks in Fremantle but then moved to Irwin Barracks sometime in late-80s or early-90s.

Regional Forces Surveillance Units
These are infantry recce units equipped in a manner similar to SASR recce units with vehicles suitable to the task e.g. Far North Queensland Regiment has a number of boats on strength along with their wheeled vehicles

Pilbarra Regiment
HQ and other elements - Karratha (main garrison)
Three Squadrons although I don't know where two of them were based. One was based in Mt Newman, one was most likely in Karratha.

North-West Mobile Force AKA NORFORCE
Main AOR was Northern Territory but but also the very top end of Western Australia (within the Kimberly region)
HQ etc. etc. in Darwin, Northern Territory
Kimberly Squadron, I believe was based in Broome with detachments in Kununurra or Derby (or both for all I remember!)
The other Squadrons were all based in NT

EDIT: There was also an RACT unit at Karrakatta and I believe another logistics unit of some description although that unit may have been Regs. Palmer Barracks in South Guildford, Perth, WA was a logistics base but I believe it was Regs rather than Reserves although I don't know for certain.

And in the 1980s 'till the early 1990s, 1/15 RNSWL Armoured Reconnaissance Regiment had all units based at Lancer Barracks in Parramatta, Sydney. This was my first ARes unit. After they lost their buckets and got wheeled recce vehicles, they established one Squadron somewhere else in Sydney. 1/15 still had 76mm MRVs on strength as well as a RAEME detachment. They also had a fully working Centurion as part of the museum (although it would have been somewhat impotent without ammo for the main gun)

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

Off the top of my head and remember that this is what I recall from the 1990s so cross-checking is probably needed

I've got an application in with the ADF media unit for assistance on OOBs, etc. Hoping they'll be able to do most of the work for me.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

16 Battalion, RWAR, Infantry
HQ, Support/admin/etc. & B Coy - Irwin Barracks, Karrakatta, Perth
A Coy - Geraldton
C Coy - Kalgoorlie, (my last unit) was in transition from understrength Company to overstrength Reconnaissance Platoon. This would have been complete by the mid-90s
Support Coy included 81mm mortars and 7.62mm SFMG

11/28 Battalion, RWAR, Infantry
Now if memory serves me correctly, Targan was 11/28 so he would be the one to ask because I"m working from second-hand info.
HQ, Support/admin/etc. & B Coy (I'm uncertain of this) - Irwin Barracks, Karakatta, Perth
A Coy: -
1st Platoon - Bunbury
2nd Platoon - Albany
3rd Platoon - Katanning
I think HQ A Coy was in Bunbury but again, I am not certain
C Coy: -
I don't know but a platoon sized unit was based in Rockingham and I think this might have been the core of C Coy.
D Coy: - Irwin Barracks
I am not certain of the setup with 11/28 because at that time, some Reserve Infantry units were being strengthened with one Regular Army company

10 Light Horse, Armoured Recce
HQ, support/etc. and A Squadron - Irwin Barracks
A Vehicles included: - M113 LRV, M548 TLC, M113 Fitter's Vehicle, M577 ACV (no 76mm MRV from what I recall)

Other Reserve units in Perth at that time included, (note that I have no idea of strength, organization etc. etc.)
7 Field Battery, Medium Arty, at Irwin Barracks (I think they've been neutered and carry 81mm now)
? Field Ambulance (don't recall designation), was formerly at the Artillery Barracks in Fremantle but then moved to Irwin Barracks sometime in late-80s or early-90s.

This all looks correct to me as far as I remember. I'm pretty sure 11/28 Battalion didn't have a regular company attached in the early to mid-90s. We didn't even get Steyrs until '93 IIRC.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

11/28 Battalion, RWAR, Infantry
Now if memory serves me correctly, Targan was 11/28 so he would be the one to ask because I"m working from second-hand info.
HQ, Support/admin/etc. & B Coy (I'm uncertain of this) - Irwin Barracks, Karakatta, Perth
A Coy: -
1st Platoon - Bunbury
2nd Platoon - Albany
3rd Platoon - Katanning
I think HQ A Coy was in Bunbury but again, I am not certain
C Coy: -
I don't know but a platoon sized unit was based in Rockingham and I think this might have been the core of C Coy.
D Coy: - Irwin Barracks
I am not certain of the setup with 11/28 because at that time, some Reserve Infantry units were being strengthened with one Regular Army company

? Field Ambulance (don't recall designation), was formerly at the Artillery Barracks in Fremantle but then moved to Irwin Barracks sometime in late-80s or early-90s.

Ummm... bloody hell, it's all such a long time ago!

To the best of my recollection, there was talk of 11/28 getting a Regular Army company when I was there in the early 90s, but I don't believe that had occurred by the mid-90s.

And I'm pretty sure the Field Ambulance unit was based at Karrakatta (Irwin Barracks) when I was there, but I don't remember the designation. 7th Field Ambulance?