KFS Refit

[Gelrir]

And, ya know, kill a lot of people. "The Rich Five tyrannize 98% of their society; how many ordinary citizens can we kill before we're worse than the Rich Five?".

--
Michael B.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Gelrir

And, ya know, kill a lot of people. "The Rich Five tyrannize 98% of their society; how many ordinary citizens can we kill before we're worse than the Rich Five?".

--
Michael B.

Look. Sarcasm and snarky replies are not going to be appreciated by the community. If you don't like what we have to say, try to frame it in some constructive criticism.

[Project_Sardonicus]

I think as I've said before Krell and Kansas etc don't need to reinvent the wheel in so much as discover it. So they may be able to come up with short cuts technologically that will give quite a shock.

Take for example whatever sort of light tank, apc etc they decide to go for.

If they fit it with anti spalling pads inside, a very basic fire extinguishing system, lockers for ammo and some of those anti rocket bar systems that are all the rage in downtown Basra. Then now their v300 is not impregnable, but certainly able to survive a good few LAW hits.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Project_Sardonicus

I think as I've said before Krell and Kansas etc don't need to reinvent the wheel in so much as discover it. So they may be able to come up with short cuts technologically that will give quite a shock.

Take for example whatever sort of light tank, apc etc they decide to go for.

If they fit it with anti spalling pads inside, a very basic fire extinguishing system, lockers for ammo and some of those anti rocket bar systems that are all the rage in downtown Basra. Then now their v300 is not impregnable, but certainly able to survive a good few LAW hits.

Krell? Probably not so much. Thought and innovation are discouraged. Molotovs and satchel bag bombs and some captured MP gear.

The KFS on the other hand, Yes. Especially the "Praetorians" and the Secret Police force. The regular army? Possibly not.

The KFS V-300s with the 90mm gun would just need the slat armor system and possibly a fire system to get there.

[ArmySGT.]

Since the Rich Five is the tech equal of the Project.

Where and in what way do you suppose they use cryosleep beds, fusion reactors, and megawatt lasers?

Do they freeze squads of the best and loyal warriors for time of war?

Do they withhold fusion power from even the Two Thousand?

[Capt Gideon]

What electronics and transformers that aren't wiped out by EMP will be taken out by tin whiskers and similar traits that plague electronics. While the electronics in an Abrams might survive the nuclear exchange, they don't keep the spare parts and test equipment needed to maintain and repair the tank in hardened storage areas. And unlike the M48, M60, M103 tanks which could be operated without any electronics and even had manual operation for training the turret and elevating the gun, the M1 tank is nothing by an oversized paperweight without its electronics. The turret was said to be too heavy for manual operation and unlike the simple gasoline and diesel engines of earlier tanks, the gas turbine has a very sophisticated electronic fuel control and operating system. The M48, M60 & M103 all had optical sights in addition to the electronic and IR sights, not the Abrams, all the optics are electronic. The M1 is also a fuel hog. The gas turbine takes five times the fuel that the multi-fuel piston engine of the Leopard2A6. So where a Leopard2A6 would need one fuel truck to support it getting to an objective, the M1A2 would need 5 fuel trucks to reach the same objective. Not a big deal back in the 1970s when it was designed to fight a defensive war in Europe.

But if you wanted to equipped your own army to be awakened 30 years after the war in a more tolerant age you would want simple rugged designs that are easy to repair and maintain, plus that can be put into production with much greater ease. So starting in the 1970s when the USSR starts selling off old hardware You start buying T-54 and later T-55 tanks. Over 20,000 T-55 were produced just for the export market by USSR, not including what China and Warsaw Pact countries. JS-2K, JS-3M and T-10M heavy tanks along with ISU-152K/M Assault/Anti-Tank Guns were also heavily sold off in the 70s & 80s after modernizations. The T-54/55 series saw the widest array of variants based on the hull, including ARV, CEV, flame thrower tanks, mine sweepers, etc. To equipped a mixed armored Infantry division with two armored Battalions, one armored infantry battalion and three mechanized infantry battalions, with three artillery Battalions (one self propelled), one anti-aircraft battalion and support battalions. You are talking 90 heavy tanks, 285 medium tanks, 70 assault guns, 20 flame thrower tanks, 416 APC, 167 armored cars, 2164 M35 Trucks, 1076 M151 Jeeps, 26 bridge layers, 8 mine clearing tanks, and various other support vehicles. Besides given the type of opposition they were expecting to face, the Rich-5 would not have needed a large force of super tanks, just a large force of average tanks would do quit well. Now they may have a secret force of a 40 super tanks just in case they might need to crush a rebellion in their own ranks, but that might be a special version of the Merkav-4 MBT with the 120mm L55 smoothbore Gun, internal 60mm mortar in the roof, one 12.7mm MG and two 7.62mm MG with a crew of 4 and up to 6 passengers with combat gear in rear (rear access hatch). Even if there standard heavy tanks are captured, they should have a way to deal with it, a Pretorian guard if you will with Tech Level A gear (2015 + 100 years), while their main military is 1950s/early 60s era gear. Effective but nothing special.

Most everything dependent on electronics after the war that isn't knocked out by EMP, will simply fail do to lack of parts and lack of maintenance. It takes electronics to trouble shoot electronics on all but the simplest level. I have three cars, a 2011, a 1952 and a 1946. I take the 2011 in for all its maintenance and work, I don't even try to do work on it. The 1946 is my long term project and the 1952 is my fun pickup. I try and do as much of the work as I can and have a garage full of tools to work with. I even have rebuilt multimeters from back in the 1960s that work great and I can repair. The new ones are designed to be thrown away because it would cost as much to fix them as it would to buy a new one. Equipment designed and made prior to 1972 (the year electronic ignitions became standard) would have a much easier time being repaired and maintained then those of more modern design (1980 onward).

[ArmySGT.]

The Rich Five had themselves frozen along with a portion of their economic empires. Included are two thousand loyal families to operate all that stuff.

They are Tech Level A and can produce equipment at tech level A.

The Anniston Army Depot is in the Kentucky Free States Territory and the Iowa tank plant isn't too far away to send expeditions for the materials there.

The Project and the Rich Five (former CoT members) were preparing for a war with the Soviet Union. Neither is going to equip themselves with Soviet equipment then just stand back and wait to be attacked be anyone and everyone.

The KFS doesn't really seem to actually use the M1 Abrams and M2 Bradleys they have. The send foot infantry, horse cavalry, or mechanized cavalry (V-300s) supported by 105mm arty towed by trucks.

Their heavy armor seems to be a heavy reserve.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Capt Gideon

What electronics and transformers that aren't wiped out by EMP will be taken out by tin whiskers and similar traits that plague electronics. While the electronics in an Abrams might survive the nuclear exchange, they don't keep the spare parts and test equipment needed to maintain and repair the tank in hardened storage areas. And unlike the M48, M60, M103 tanks which could be operated without any electronics and even had manual operation for training the turret and elevating the gun, the M1 tank is nothing by an oversized paperweight without its electronics. The turret was said to be too heavy for manual operation and unlike the simple gasoline and diesel engines of earlier tanks, the gas turbine has a very sophisticated electronic fuel control and operating system. The M48, M60 & M103 all had optical sights in addition to the electronic and IR sights, not the Abrams, all the optics are electronic. The M1 is also a fuel hog. The gas turbine takes five times the fuel that the multi-fuel piston engine of the Leopard2A6. So where a Leopard2A6 would need one fuel truck to support it getting to an objective, the M1A2 would need 5 fuel trucks to reach the same objective. Not a big deal back in the 1970s when it was designed to fight a defensive war in Europe.

I think you will be rather surprised by how primitive the electronics in an M1 actually are. These are EMP hardened solid state electronics rooted in the 1970s. The DoD fully expected a nuclear battlefield and prepared the equipment for it. These will ride out a near miss and start right up. The newer digital electronic such as the Blue Force tracker and the SINCGARS radio could be affected if the antennas are not dismounted. If these are then their protected as the hull of the M1 and M2 act as a big faraday cage and conduct the EMP pulse to the earth.

[Project_Sardonicus]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Krell? Probably not so much. Thought and innovation are discouraged. Molotovs and satchel bag bombs and some captured MP gear.

The KFS on the other hand, Yes. Especially the "Praetorians" and the Secret Police force. The regular army? Possibly not.

The KFS V-300s with the 90mm gun would just need the slat armor system and possibly a fire system to get there.

I think in terms of KFC in many ways like the SADF in the border wars of 70s-80s no political support intended, they were part of a horrid government.

But they do seemed to have mastered a modern form of Blitzkreig. For them the number one vehicle was the Rattel a big wheeled, armoured vehicle, with very long range, high speed and excellent cross country capability. At the expense of armour or until the Ingwe missile heavy armament.

Rather it was where it needed to be and in large numbers. With good recon it wasn't where enemy heavy tanks such as T55 were until they were in sufficent numbers to win.

The Rattel also had big windows, lots of doors and a few would have quick firing smoke launchers. So if facing an ambush, or a force of tanks it could quickly get the infantry out, screen the enemy with mortar smoke and then either run away from an ambush or charge down a tank at point blank range.

It's how a thin skinned vehicle with an ancient french 90mm took on a full size t55 and won again and again.

But where possible heavy armour was spotted by recon units and ambushed by lighter infantry units. At first with rpgs and mines later with atgms.

It's a model I can see KFS adopting, certainly the v300 is perfectly suited for such warfare. One could picture a skilled group of Spartans in v300s with good recon giving a MARS1 quite a head ache.

I could also vision elite recon Spartan tank hunters riding around in jeeps or on horse back hunting lone morrow units. Before crippling them with shots from anti material rifles, shattering engine blocks and puncturing tyres.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Project_Sardonicus

I think in terms of KFC in many ways like the SADF in the border wars of 70s-80s no political support intended, they were part of a horrid government.

But they do seemed to have mastered a modern form of Blitzkreig. For them the number one vehicle was the Rattel a big wheeled, armoured vehicle, with very long range, high speed and excellent cross country capability. At the expense of armour or until the Ingwe missile heavy armament.

Rather it was where it needed to be and in large numbers. With good recon it wasn't where enemy heavy tanks such as T55 were until they were in sufficent numbers to win.

The Rattel also had big windows, lots of doors and a few would have quick firing smoke launchers. So if facing an ambush, or a force of tanks it could quickly get the infantry out, screen the enemy with mortar smoke and then either run away from an ambush or charge down a tank at point blank range.

It's how a thin skinned vehicle with an ancient french 90mm took on a full size t55 and won again and again.

But where possible heavy armour was spotted by recon units and ambushed by lighter infantry units. At first with rpgs and mines later with atgms.

It's a model I can see KFS adopting, certainly the v300 is perfectly suited for such warfare. One could picture a skilled group of Spartans in v300s with good recon giving a MARS1 quite a head ache.

I could also vision elite recon Spartan tank hunters riding around in jeeps or on horse back hunting lone morrow units. Before crippling them with shots from anti material rifles, shattering engine blocks and puncturing tyres.

Fortunately for the PCs the KFS army is not that professional. The Officer Corps is hereditary, corrupt, and suspicious of one another.

Some of them are soldiers because they are not competent enough to be trusted with Family business!

[Project_Sardonicus]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Fortunately for the PCs the KFS army is not that professional. The Officer Corps is hereditary, corrupt, and suspicious of one another.

Some of them are soldiers because they are not competent enough to be trusted with Family business!

Of course one of the earliest uses of war has been to keep the number of inheriting sons don't to an acceptable level. So there's a real useful purpose to fierce pointless conflicts. Of course too many out of control conflicts can have a real cost. So most armies would still have a professional cadre of corporals and sergeants.

Beyond that there'd still be a need for all professional units, to prevent too many resources being wasted on fools errands. There may be an expandable resource of 3rd sons but not radios or armoured vehicles.
Further what happens when a feckless officer sells his equipment to the enemy to pay off a gambling debt.

As such I think there'd be a KFC professional force paid for by taxation and commanded by appointed commanders beyond all but the highest political control.

L Sprague De Camp had an interesting idea about this, with the royal bastard. An illegitimate son of the highest family. Who was the most senior general, but unable to ever actually command any form of government.