YaATW2KT: The Second Mexican-American War

[Olefin]

FYI the new stuff I am working on is a possible trilogy looking at events in the summer of 2001 in California, Arizona and New Mexico as Milgov forces and the weather changes both begin to take their toll on the Mexican forces in those states - which was never really looked at by the original writers as they stopped the timeline in the US basically in mid-April

I plan to address one of the big issues in the post T2K canon - the idea of the Mexican occupation of areas on CA north of San Diego - which considering basically all the water for those areas comes from the US and from areas under Milgov control would make almost impossible - especially as there is no electricity to run the pumps that move that water over the top of mountains

[Olefin]

One of the big things I saw as completely unrealistic in the 2300AD timeline is Mexico not only keeping Texas for close to a hundred years after the war but also most of the American Southwest as well - even to the point of the US not assisting the California rebels to win their fight against Mexico.

There is no way that the US, by a hundred years plus after the war, isnt rebuilt to where it could easily beat Mexico in a war. Plus to add to that almost the entire area they took in Arizona and California is totally dependent on water from areas the US still has. There is no way you get Mexico keeping Los Angeles and Phoenix going without water from the Colorado or pumped from the north of California - certainly not as cities numbering in the multiple of millions.

That was a serious miss by the writers and one that really needs to be corrected.

Let alone the US allows Mexico to conquer all of Central America and Cuba long after the war? Sorry but not going to happen. Especially not Cuba - by that time the US has long built up again - and you are not going to see them let Mexico conquer Cuba and be able to possibly shut off access to the Gulf of Mexico.

And by then in the timeline the US was back in space as well - showing they are not some weakling of a country that Mexico could push around with ease.

[RN7]

Originally Posted by Olefin

One of the big things I saw as completely unrealistic in the 2300AD timeline is Mexico not only keeping Texas for close to a hundred years after the war but also most of the American Southwest as well - even to the point of the US not assisting the California rebels to win their fight against Mexico.

There is no way that the US, by a hundred years plus after the war, isnt rebuilt to where it could easily beat Mexico in a war. Plus to add to that almost the entire area they took in Arizona and California is totally dependent on water from areas the US still has. There is no way you get Mexico keeping Los Angeles and Phoenix going without water from the Colorado or pumped from the north of California - certainly not as cities numbering in the multiple of millions.

That was a serious miss by the writers and one that really needs to be corrected.

Let alone the US allows Mexico to conquer all of Central America and Cuba long after the war? Sorry but not going to happen. Especially not Cuba - by that time the US has long built up again - and you are not going to see them let Mexico conquer Cuba and be able to possibly shut off access to the Gulf of Mexico.

And by then in the timeline the US was back in space as well - showing they are not some weakling of a country that Mexico could push around with ease.

The Mexican invasion of the American southwest was I think one of the great escapes from realties in the Twilight War. I can see why GDW included it and the Mexicans could pull of an invasion in the scenario were the US is heavily damaged from nuclear attack. But invading the entire southwest and then holding and keeping it are two completely different things. Once US regular forces turn up after the Mexican invasion then its game over. The Mexicans are not well equipped enough to take on veteran US forces even with the Soviet Cuba Division helping them. Also the US civil population is as well armed as your average Mexican soldier.

Even if this was not the case once the rest of the US gets back on its feet then they are going to want their territory back, and without outside help (aka the French) the Mexicans wont be able to hold the southwest for long.

There are some alternative versions of 2300AD which place Cuba outside of Mexican control. Ben Levy's site even has Cuba as a US state. I think Puerto Rico is also now a US state in some versions. I've seen another scenario which has America retaking control of the southwest fairly quickly after Texas wins its independence from Mexico, and then invading and incorporating the whole of Baja California into the US.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by RN7

The Mexican invasion of the American southwest was I think one of the great escapes from realties in the Twilight War. I can see why GDW included it and the Mexicans could pull of an invasion in the scenario were the US is heavily damaged from nuclear attack. But invading the entire southwest and then holding and keeping it are two completely different things. Once US regular forces turn up after the Mexican invasion then its game over. The Mexicans are not well equipped enough to take on veteran US forces even with the Soviet Cuba Division helping them. Also the US civil population is as well armed as your average Mexican soldier.

Even if this was not the case once the rest of the US gets back on its feet then they are going to want their territory back, and without outside help (aka the French) the Mexicans wont be able to hold the southwest for long.

There are some alternative versions of 2300AD which place Cuba outside of Mexican control. Ben Levy's site even has Cuba as a US state. I think Puerto Rico is also now a US state in some versions. I've seen another scenario which has America retaking control of the southwest fairly quickly after Texas wins its independence from Mexico, and then invading and incorporating the whole of Baja California into the US.

Just the fact that most of the water going to Southern CA comes from water pumped over the mountains from areas under US control means Mexico could never hold that whole area. If you really want to stretch it if they can keep control of the Yuma area they could keep the water flowing (it moves by gravity) to San Diego and the Imperial Valley. Other than that once the US cuts off the water thats the end of the Mexican occupation of any sizeable area.

And I dont see France supporting a country occupying parts of the US no matter what - thats pretty much an act of war that the US would not have forgotten. No way does the US help the French at all in the Kafer War. They would have let the French spin in the wind after that.

[RN7]

Originally Posted by Olefin

Just the fact that most of the water going to Southern CA comes from water pumped over the mountains from areas under US control means Mexico could never hold that whole area. If you really want to stretch it if they can keep control of the Yuma area they could keep the water flowing (it moves by gravity) to San Diego and the Imperial Valley. Other than that once the US cuts off the water thats the end of the Mexican occupation of any sizeable area.

And I dont see France supporting a country occupying parts of the US no matter what - thats pretty much an act of war that the US would not have forgotten. No way does the US help the French at all in the Kafer War. They would have let the French spin in the wind after that.

The French didn't, but the only way that Mexico could keep control of the American southwest after the Twilight War would be if they did support Mexico.

[Olefin]

Its one of the things I am writing new modules about - to correct the situation in the Southwest and California to show a more realistic summer to early fall of 2001 that shows the US taking back some territory and the Mexicans having to fall back due to logistics and drought conditions taking their toll on their ability to hold ground - as well as having the Civil War sap any chance they have of reinforcing their people on the ground

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Before people get much hotter under the collar and hopefully to curtail further claims that the GDW writers missed the mark/didn't know what they were talking about/screwed up/etc. etc. about certain aspects, it's well worth remembering that the entire Twilight history was a backstory to the history they created for 2300AD. Specifically the "Great Game" that they played out to decide how the 2300AD world came about. The Twilight:2000 game grew from that backstory.

If it appears that they missed the mark on something it's more likely to be because they were writing in the details that they created from the Great Game and less likely that they were trying to create a real world flow of events for WW3.
I'm not saying that their events list is "right" and I'm not even saying it's "good" but it is a product of it being retroactively created to make a second game from an existing game.