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  #31  
Old 11-06-2017, 07:55 AM
RN7 RN7 is offline
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The most obvious source of ships might be Japan. In the 1990's Japan had one of the worlds largest shipping fleets, and in fact it still does.

From 2300AD Earth-Cybertech Sourcebook

Japan

The island nation of Japan was one of the few major 20th-century industrial powers to come through the Twilight War without any direct damage. Being an industrial exporter and the center of much international trade and banking, the nation was faced with economic upheaval when the war tore up its trading partners, but through the will of its people it survived and, with its extensive ocean transportation capacity, dominated international trade for decades to follow.

Japan has been a major world trade center since before the Twilight War. After the war, the country's shipping network formed the backbone of international trade for decades.
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  #32  
Old 11-06-2017, 12:57 PM
unkated unkated is offline
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Originally Posted by Raellus View Post
I don't know what the likelihood of Soviet attack subs roaming the Yellow Sea, East China Sea, or southern reaches of the Sea of Japan in late 2000. There might be one or two operating in the region at that time, but with the U.S., ROK, and Japanese navies operating in the same waters, there's also a pretty good chance that there's not.
For that you need the supplement Последняя подводная лодка*, about the last operational Victor III (K-355) roaming the northwest Pacific, performing various missions to support the collapsing Soviet Union.

Equally, by (rough) canon, there is not much left of the US, RoK, Japanese, or Chinese navies left operating in those waters either. I would say that the US military would not send a transport fleet/flotilla back without some escort, but the available escorts would be sparse (not a lot of spare fuel oil). But then so is the threat.

One could run a naval campaign starting with an escorted tanker making a run from the middle east to Korea, fueling the fleet and escorts, then making a run across the Pacific to Seattle or Bremerton or Everett - or even Portland or San Francisco.

<Frivolous start>
Perhaps a lone surviving a/c carrier USS Galactica could escort the fleet due to its nuclear power plant. Admiral Adama could lead the ragtag fleet across the Pacific, being forced to stop at various islands (planets) by various supply and repair needs and the PCs could be landing parties sent ashore. They could encounter various Russian (Cylon) or unaligned people in there efforts to reach the US (Earth), following clues and suggestions by COMPAC (the Lords of Kobol).
<Frivolous end>

Uncle Ted

* Go ahead, copy the name into Google translate.
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  #33  
Old 11-06-2017, 04:12 PM
Olefin Olefin is offline
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Actually an escorted tanker (using fuel from the Kern County oil fields which are still in Milgov possession) would be a great idea on how to get guys back from Korea. There are still US Navy ships in Korea most likely - either too low on fuel to get home or out of fuel - and there is a big time precedent to use them to get troops back home - i.e. Operation Magic Carpet from WWII.

That gives you both escorts and transport all in one.

I..e its one thing to attack a bunch of defenseless freighters - is another if they are joined by several refueled destroyers, cruisers or even carriers or battleships (i.e. as per the RDF there arent any operational carrier task forces outside of the one in the Persian Gult - well a carrier that is out of jet fuel is pretty much non-operational even if everything else works - and would make one hell of a transport) - or forget the freighters its just the naval ships with perhaps three or four freighters holding the remaining tanks, artillery, etc..
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  #34  
Old 11-07-2017, 11:54 PM
unkated unkated is offline
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Originally Posted by Olefin View Post
Actually an escorted tanker (using fuel from the Kern County oil fields which are still in Milgov possession) would be a great idea on how to get guys back from Korea. There are still US Navy ships in Korea most likely - either too low on fuel to get home or out of fuel.
That's what prompted the notion of a tanker. Other than aircraft carriers and submarines and a few odd cruisers, everything else needs fuel oil. And neither Korea nor Japan are likely to spare much, as both countries have fuel supply issues of their own.

You cannot fit 15000 troops aboard even half a dozen destroyers. If you want them to get home, you need to use bigger boats. So, few escorts, more freighters. Bunches of guys living in cans (shipping containers) for a 7-20 days.

Much as the navy would like to bring back all their toys with the boys from Korea, one tanker won't do it. But it will allow one lightly escorted convoy.

Uncle Ted
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  #35  
Old 11-08-2017, 06:45 AM
.45cultist .45cultist is offline
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What about a car hauler or two?
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  #36  
Old 11-08-2017, 07:36 AM
Olefin Olefin is offline
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Originally Posted by unkated View Post
That's what prompted the notion of a tanker. Other than aircraft carriers and submarines and a few odd cruisers, everything else needs fuel oil. And neither Korea nor Japan are likely to spare much, as both countries have fuel supply issues of their own.

You cannot fit 15000 troops aboard even half a dozen destroyers. If you want them to get home, you need to use bigger boats. So, few escorts, more freighters. Bunches of guys living in cans (shipping containers) for a 7-20 days.

Much as the navy would like to bring back all their toys with the boys from Korea, one tanker won't do it. But it will allow one lightly escorted convoy.

Uncle Ted
All depends on the size of the tanker that they get for the trip - and they could be just getting their toys back to Hawaii which is almost 1800 km shorter distance - i.e. escort the freighters till they are past Japan and then take the naval ships to either Alaska, Hawaii or even Guam just so they are back in US territory - that would maximize the fuel and get the USN ships home (but maybe not to CA as to home) and the freighters with the troops and tanks back to CA (or Seattle for that matter)

and that way you could bring the 25th Light survivors back to Hawaii - 600 guys would fit on a couple of destroyers
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  #37  
Old 11-08-2017, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olefin View Post
and that way you could bring the 25th Light survivors back to Hawaii - 600 guys would fit on a couple of destroyers
Given intrawar replacements would not necessarily have come from Hawaii the number could be even less.

I always thought that NG units would only have about 50% of their personnel from the states they originated from. Of course that number is grabbed out of thin air and upon further thought (given the starting character rules about foreign military and drafted civilians) it might be much less. Thoughts?


Edit. Just remembered that the 25th is not a NG unit, but the point still applies. Members of the Unit in 2001 might have never set foot in Hawaii.

Last edited by kato13; 11-09-2017 at 04:38 AM.
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  #38  
Old 11-08-2017, 08:53 PM
Olefin Olefin is offline
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Frankly I would probably much rather volunteer to head back to Hawaii than the mainland.
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  #39  
Old 11-09-2017, 12:18 AM
James Langham James Langham is online now
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Depends on how much you know about the relative areas the implication in canon is there is little info known about the state of the US in Europe.
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  #40  
Old 11-09-2017, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olefin View Post
Frankly I would probably much rather volunteer to head back to Hawaii than the mainland.
I'd be rather uneasy about heading to an isolated region that imported 85-90% of its food before the Twilight War and only had about 3 days of food in grocery stores at any given time.
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  #41  
Old 11-09-2017, 04:39 PM
unkated unkated is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olefin View Post
All depends on the size of the tanker that they get for the trip - and they could be just getting their toys back to Hawaii which is almost 1800 km shorter distance - i.e. escort the freighters till they are past Japan and then take the naval ships to either Alaska, Hawaii or even Guam just so they are back in US territory - that would maximize the fuel and get the USN ships home (but maybe not to CA as to home) and the freighters with the troops and tanks back to CA (or Seattle for that matter)

and that way you could bring the 25th Light survivors back to Hawaii - 600 guys would fit on a couple of destroyers
And.. what? abandon the 15000 troops to any roaming Soviet sub? The point of evacuating the troops from Korea (and probably Japan, too) would be to bring them back to the US where they can be useful; the point of the escort was to ensure that they get home. Hawaii, with its limited resources is not a useful for 15,000 troops. Disembarking 15,000 troops in a port in the NW (between SF and Seattle) is useful (IMHO).

Ships sitting in Guam, where its crews will eat from the even smaller amount of available food are not useful either, even it is US territory.

Uncle Ted
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  #42  
Old 11-09-2017, 05:46 PM
Olefin Olefin is offline
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The point is to get the USN ships to a friendly port - i.e. conserve fuel by getting them to the nearest US port in US territory - then take the rest of the troops home with the remaining escorts

i.e. lets say there are ten destroyers and cruisers still afloat plus a BB

Use some of the fuel to get the BB, the cruisers and most of the DD's to Guam for instance - then the rest of the convoy with say 2-3 remaining DD's goes home - that way you arent abandoning ships that frankly the US wont be in a position to replace for a very long time in another country's ports

and a Korean Omega may actually be a series of steps - i.e. use what fuel is left to evacuate to Okinawa - for that short a distance you could even use sail or alcohol powered ships - at least that way the troops are no longer in Korea and in contact with the enemy - then evacuate from there - also given the state of the Soviet navy I have a feeling that there are no Soviet subs left

reason - if they had any nukes left they would have used them to take out the Virginia and get the satellite back - instead they sent a sail powered ship to try to do it using commandos

so at best you might be looking at diesel boats -and as low as fuel for all concerned if you can get past the Sea of Japan you are probably home free
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