Equipping the Project

[cosmicfish]

I started off talking about what could be obtained, it has to be balanced against what is required. Let's start by looking at different team needs:

MARS

As the "military" of the Project, MARS teams need heavy weapons and armor. Presumably they need the ability to withstand .50cal across the board, and heavier for many teams, although they will rely more on mobility than armor. They will likewise need the ability to take out typical military targets from tanks to aircraft.

Recon

Less engaged than MARS, but still expected to engage with hostile forces (to assist MARS and because it is their job to find them), Recon teams need the ability to withstand small arms fire up to and including 7.62 NATO (lots of those in private hands) and preferably up to .50cal across the board, but really they should run from anything bigger. Some heavy weapons would be useful so that they can take out isolated vehicles and hardened positions without needed to call in a MARS team.

Science, Base staff,...

... and other "high value" assets. Supposed to run or bunker down, but they are likely to be slow and cumbersome and need to be able to protect themselves. Protection to .50cal seems appropriate as a minimum, considering the value, but weaponry does not need to match.

Remember that base personnel are not likely to have much of a perimeter, and depending on the base likely lack extensive defenses, so what vehicles they DO have need to be bug-out vehicles, able to depart under fire.

Specialty

MARS and Recon should clear areas of "high risk" opponents before Specialty enters, but they are likely to need protection to 7.62 NATO regardless and may need more - the Project will NOT have the manpower to secure borders!

As far as those protection levels go, it is worthwhile to note that it needs to be durable - many armored vehicles are considered disposable after even modest damage, the Project can't do that. One alternative is over-armoring - something that can shrug off small amounts of .50cal fire can probably shrug off small arms all day long.

[Project_Sardonicus]

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

I started off talking about what could be obtained, it has to be balanced against what is required. Let's start by looking at different team needs:

MARS

As the "military" of the Project, MARS teams need heavy weapons and armor. Presumably they need the ability to withstand .50cal across the board, and heavier for many teams, although they will rely more on mobility than armor. They will likewise need the ability to take out typical military targets from tanks to aircraft.

Recon

Less engaged than MARS, but still expected to engage with hostile forces (to assist MARS and because it is their job to find them), Recon teams need the ability to withstand small arms fire up to and including 7.62 NATO (lots of those in private hands) and preferably up to .50cal across the board, but really they should run from anything bigger. Some heavy weapons would be useful so that they can take out isolated vehicles and hardened positions without needed to call in a MARS team.

Science, Base staff,...

... and other "high value" assets. Supposed to run or bunker down, but they are likely to be slow and cumbersome and need to be able to protect themselves. Protection to .50cal seems appropriate as a minimum, considering the value, but weaponry does not need to match.

Remember that base personnel are not likely to have much of a perimeter, and depending on the base likely lack extensive defenses, so what vehicles they DO have need to be bug-out vehicles, able to depart under fire.

Specialty

MARS and Recon should clear areas of "high risk" opponents before Specialty enters, but they are likely to need protection to 7.62 NATO regardless and may need more - the Project will NOT have the manpower to secure borders!

As far as those protection levels go, it is worthwhile to note that it needs to be durable - many armored vehicles are considered disposable after even modest damage, the Project can't do that. One alternative is over-armoring - something that can shrug off small amounts of .50cal fire can probably shrug off small arms all day long.

Thing is the project is like any military type organisation going to be in constant conflict between what they want and what they can achieve.

Armour is heavy which makes for heavy vehicles, which are usually slow can't travel across rough terrain as easily or certainly damaged bridges and even the heftiest tank isn't necessarily going to be able to ride over a freeway full of rusted out cars.

Up until the 2000s anything lighter than an actual battle tank was usually pretty thinly armoured. Resisting armour piercing 7.62 bullets through the sides and rear were a big issue. And conflicts would leave hordes of m113s or BMPs with flammable aluminium armour by the side of the road burned out.

Unless the project actually wants to invest in hefty and hard to maintain tougher APCs like the Bradley. Chances are they will be relying on speed, stealth and observation most likely observing enemies and ambushing them and running away if confronted.

Which often is the strategy that historically worked best.

Certainly Recon I think will do most of the actual driving and fighting at night, with night vision and silent electric engines.

[cosmicfish]

Originally Posted by Project_Sardonicus

Thing is the project is like any military type organisation going to be in constant conflict between what they want and what they can achieve.

Sure, but I personally think that the Project should be able to leverage their knowledge of the future to make this less of an issue than for other organizations.

Originally Posted by Project_Sardonicus

Armour is heavy which makes for heavy vehicles, which are usually slow can't travel across rough terrain as easily or certainly damaged bridges and even the heftiest tank isn't necessarily going to be able to ride over a freeway full of rusted out cars.

An absolutely valid point, but these are obstacles to transit, whereas an underarmored vehicle is an obstacle to survival.

Originally Posted by Project_Sardonicus

Up until the 2000s anything lighter than an actual battle tank was usually pretty thinly armoured. Resisting armour piercing 7.62 bullets through the sides and rear were a big issue. And conflicts would leave hordes of m113s or BMPs with flammable aluminium armour by the side of the road burned out.

Unless the project actually wants to invest in hefty and hard to maintain tougher APCs like the Bradley. Chances are they will be relying on speed, stealth and observation most likely observing enemies and ambushing them and running away if confronted.

Which often is the strategy that historically worked best.

The strategies being cited were based on very different operational expectations. Those M113's were deployed with an expectation of reconnaissance having identified threats, avoid heavy threats and leaving them to more capable units. And if things went wrong and the M113 was hit, supporting forces were supposed to be pretty close and the M113 and its troops relatively replaceable. TMP vehicles are unlikely to operate anywhere that reconnaissance is consistent or where support is closer than a few hours away, and Project resources are only barely replaceable - it does not make sense that the Frozen Watch and supply bases could replace more than a couple teams in any given branch.

Originally Posted by Project_Sardonicus

Certainly Recon I think will do most of the actual driving and fighting at night, with night vision and silent electric engines.

MARS will be nocturnal, most of the Specialty teams will be diurnal, and Recon will split, going by day when they need to talk to people and by night when they really don't (and don't mind being mistaken for unfriendlies).