More stupid U.S. Marines

[ShadoWarrior]

Picture was on Knight's Armament's company blog. (I live in the same town as KAC, but I don't work there.) The full report by AP can be read on yahoo news here.

I don't buy, at all, that none of the ten guys in the pic, nor the photographer, knew that those jagged letters were the Nazi emblem. No one could be that ignorant. Not even Americans. Come on, get real. None of these dickheads ever played a WW2 FPS game while they were growing up?

[Legbreaker]

I'm not at all convinced none of them knew about the German SS, but I can easily believe most don't know the full story behind them.
It's also quite possible (unfortunately) that at least one of them (probably at least the owner of it) has some fairly solid (and misguided) links to some of the more extreme groups to be found around the world.
The original SS were supposed to have been an elite force, if somewhat morally "bent". Snipers and recon troops tend to think they're also elite (warranted or not) and therefore above the laws and regulations the grunts have to live by (just like the Germans)...

[/rambling]

[Raellus]

It's been a really bad few weeks PR-wise for the USMC. I, for one, don't buy for a second that the scout snipers in the photo didn't understand the significance of the SS runes. Is it just a coincidence that all of the men in the photo are white? There's a mystique attached to the SS (more specifically the Waffen SS) that a lot of people are attracted to, even if they don't espouse Hitler's racial beliefs. Someone in that group had to have known what the SS was all about, though. Their lame excuse is almost as insulting to the thinking public as the image itself is.

It's really rather unfortunate because the vast majority of Marines are decent and courageous people. A few bad apples get 99% of the publicity and drag the Corps' reputation through the mud.

[Fusilier]

All a misunderstanding guys. Here is the real pic...

[Schone23666]

Originally Posted by Fusilier

All a misunderstanding guys. Here is the real pic...

Please tell me that IS in fact the real pic...

[ShadoWarrior]

Originally Posted by Schone23666

Please tell me that IS in fact the real pic...

'Fraid not. It's clearly been photoshopped. The KISS letters do not conform to the wavy fabric of the flag. They're a foreground object superimposed on the image. It's a nicely done amateur photo edit.

[Bullet Magnet]

Originally Posted by ShadoWarrior

None of these dickheads ever played a WW2 FPS game while they were growing up?

Or watched a movie set in Europe during the 1940s?
Or hell! Caught the right rerun of Hogan's Heroes?
My point being, even here in the States, with an educational system I rate as "could work its way up to piss poor, if we could get the political/bureaucratic bullshit out of the way", it is still easy enough to learn the more prominent symbols of the nations we went to war against. Especially when it's that particular nation, and that particular war.

And now, we reap the rewards of decades of hailing ignorance as a desirable trait.

[waiting4something]

There is nothing wrong with these Marines doing this. This is not something new people. Scout Snipers have been using sig rune style letters for a long time. SS- Scout Snipers. If this offends people, then to bad.

[Tegyrius]

Yeah, too bad when some of those people sit on appropriations committees. Too bad when some of those people control the media channels that shape public opinion of the military.

- C.

[waiting4something]

Originally Posted by Tegyrius

Yeah, too bad when some of those people sit on appropriations committees. Too bad when some of those people control the media channels that shape public opinion of the military.

- C.

Yeah it is to bad isn't. It's to bad outsiders have so much say in stuff they know so little about.

[waiting4something]

When are people going start bitching about Jolly Roger flags and symbols. That's pirate shit....... we don't want people to think we rape, pillage, and plunder places. Or Spartan symbols.... oh no we don't want people to think we all get together and have gay orgies.

[Legbreaker]

It is however in extremely bad taste, especially if the practise was taken up post WWII.
The swastika itself isn't inherently and solely a nazi symbol, but rather the badge of a defunct (can't imagine why ) German car manufacturer which in turn was borrowed from an ancient fertility/sun symbol and comes in both male and female (mirror image).
Unfortunately for the symbol, it's now associated almost without exception to a very short space of time in the first half of the twentieth century.

The SS insignia as displayed in the photo has likewise come to be associated with evil and so it's use should be avoided.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by waiting4something

There is nothing wrong with these Marines doing this. This is not something new people. Scout Snipers have been using sig rune style letters for a long time. SS- Scout Snipers. If this offends people, then to bad.

Really? This ef-the-rest-of-the-world attitude is why so many foreign people have such a low opinion of Americans. My grandfather fought in a war against the Nazis and their SS and now we're celebrating them by adopted their symbols? It's OK because the scout snipers have been using this symbol for a long time? What's your source for this? This is the first I've seen or heard anything about it.

I'm offended, but I guess that's just too bad.

[Fusilier]

Meanwhile... at waiting4something's house.



I'm just playing around with you dude. I don't mean it or anything.

[Webstral]

There are many people in the world—the US very much included—who are far too easily offended. Being overly sensitive seems to be a part of their self-image. I agree with you, Waiting, that we should not allow freedom of speech to be dictated or circumscribed by the hypersensitive. I heartily dislike the chicanery of political correctness.

On the other hand, Nazi Germany is a special case. Pirates under the Jolly Roger have committed terrible acts, it’s true. Personally, I don’t much care for the American fascination with pirates because they were, and still are, violent criminals. This much said, Nazi Germany is a special case due to the incredible scale of Nazi atrocities and the cold-blooded, methodical, and engineered manner in which they conducted their crimes against humanity. Any reference to Nazi Germany brings huge baggage to the table.

Targan states the case against the use of SS in the style depicted on the flag more neutrally than I would. To claim that SS as shown on that flag is merely an abbreviation for “Scout Snipers” is like claiming that the Nazi-style salute, when used by a white supremacist group, is merely an alternative style of salute that is otherwise devoid of meaning or reference. Such a claim holds less water than a sieve.

Let’s get down to it, then. The use of lettering from the SS is unavoidably attached to the identity of the SS. The SS was a force of political soldiers distinct from the regular German Army. The SS performed brilliantly on the battlefield. They also ran the death camps. They were card-carrying Nazis. The placement of a flag with SS lettering underneath the American flag is a jarring juxtaposition of values, suggesting very strongly that these Marines believe that the unprecedentedly violent fascism of Nazi Germany has a place in American life. Remember that these aren’t survivalists running around in the woods on their own recognizance. These are US Marines. They swore to uphold the Constitution. Like it or not, they represent the nation. The armed forces don’t have the luxury of telling the nation they serve that being offended is just too bad when the US flag and all it represents is placed directly adjacent to symbols from Nazi Germany and all Nazi Germany represents. People should be concerned.

While I sympathize with a tendency on the part of troops—especially troops in elite units—to want to associate themselves with, emulate, and otherwise incorporate values from history’s stellar fighting men and formations, the use of Nazi symbolism anywhere in the logos, insignia, or regalia of a US military unit shows very poor judgment at the very least.

[weswood]

Originally Posted by Fusilier

Meanwhile... at waiting4something's house.



I'm just playing around with you dude. I don't mean it or anything.

This picture disturbs me. All that beautiful milk being wasted.

[waiting4something]

Originally Posted by Fusilier

Meanwhile... at waiting4something's house.



I'm just playing around with you dude. I don't mean it or anything.

hahahaha..... really cute. I do happen to think the ss sig runes and death head look pretty cool. If that makes me wrong, so be it. I even bought a back plate piece for a Glock that has that style skull and crossbones. It looks good. The lightning bolt style s looks good too. Hell seeing that picture with the KISS flag made me think even KISS uses it. Now if you will excuse me I have to go clean my nazi paraphernalia.