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  #1  
Old 07-03-2009, 08:23 PM
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Default What's the AV of a rucksack?

Throughout history since vehicles came into heavy use, troops have hung their personal gear outside of the vehicle or put them in bustle racks. This serves two purposes: to clear out the cramped interior, and to protect the vehicle a bit.

The second one is what I'm talking about. It's been discovered in Iraq that simple things like personal gear can pre-detonate HEAT rounds. So what's the AV of a rucksack? A box of MREs? Someone's boom box? etc?
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Old 07-03-2009, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b
The second one is what I'm talking about. It's been discovered in Iraq that simple things like personal gear can pre-detonate HEAT rounds. So what's the AV of a rucksack? A box of MREs? Someone's boom box? etc?
AV 0, most likely. Just functions as (probably not very effective) standoff armor.
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Old 07-03-2009, 09:16 PM
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Actually... Rucksacks have been known to stop bullets of up to 7.62mm caliber. But i'm not sure what AV that would be classified as.
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Old 07-03-2009, 09:42 PM
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I would think the average for a full pack would end up being the same or a little less than a sand bag. Of course it depends on contents.

Last edited by kato13; 07-03-2009 at 09:50 PM.
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Old 07-03-2009, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kato13
I would think the average for a full pack would end up being the same or a little less than a sand bag. Of course it depends on contents.
probably more like a sandbag if the content was sand
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Old 07-03-2009, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leonpoi
probably more like a sandbag if the content was sand
My assumption was that is was twice as thick. Packed clothing can have a density of 400 kg/M^3 and my overall average for military/personal equipment is 700kg/M^3. Sand is about 1800kg depending on how wet it is.

Last edited by kato13; 07-03-2009 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 07-04-2009, 02:26 AM
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Default premature detonation of heat rounds

causes the jet of molten copper from the round to disperse in a patern that greatly lessens the effects of it . I would deduct a few points from total penetration value if rounds went of in objects outside the armor hull. Sort of like a spaced armor variety .

In Jugoslavia we saw vehicles modified to withstand heat rounds and rpgs with cement,tiles,car tyres,chickenwire and of course the good old tank tracks across the hull.

Being a former crew man and cavalry man my self I would be damned before I had any of my ill begotten gains put into expensive gear riddled with shrapnel on the outside of the APC .

Though - on the M135 ( M113 w 2o mm turret ) we had , all our packs were stowed in what we called the cangaroo pouch . A huge canvas pouch strapped to the front of the tin can.

Mostly issue gear back then though - I guess the shooting company would replace from their budget .But rolling out a sleeping bag with hits from mg fire and shrapnel in an ice cold tent at night after a scrap would probably dent morale pretty good.

Lack of space inside was the reason for stowing outside though .
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Old 07-04-2009, 08:04 AM
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Default AV on a rucksac....

Paul that's the best one yet.....LOL (how long is a string of string)

I'd guess it would depend of what's in it...

If it's packed with Iron or gold bars for some reason it would be pretty good
on the other hand
if its packed with dirty dipers som vials of the plague , a faulty frag , a bottle of acid, 3 molotov cocktails and a pund of heroin...well that would be a interily different matter...

all IMHO offcourse
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Old 07-04-2009, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by General Pain
Paul that's the best one yet.....LOL (how long is a string of string)

I'd guess it would depend of what's in it...

If it's packed with Iron or gold bars for some reason it would be pretty good
on the other hand
if its packed with dirty dipers som vials of the plague , a faulty frag , a bottle of acid, 3 molotov cocktails and a pund of heroin...well that would be a interily different matter...

all IMHO offcourse
that reads like your PCs equipment list .( All firearms are carried on his person )
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Old 07-04-2009, 12:56 PM
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I am guessing they would do a good job at protecting against low velocity stuff, pistols, shrapnel and maybe full sized mg and assault rifle rounds when they are near their max range and more or less spent.

But, the contents of the pack well, think about what we stuffed in the packs. A shelter half, 1 spare uniform, the boots if you carried extra may stop a round. But most things nope, they just contribute to stopping things.

One of the big reasons we put packs on the outside was room, so we could cram more guys in the truck. And so our packs are more accessible than just tossing them in the bed cramping your knees, rattling around, then the confusion of whose pack is whose when its time to off load. We had two trucks bog down on the drive to the city so in the end we have almost two platoons stuffed in the back of 1 duece, the bench seats were filled and then two rows of packs along the bed guys sat on.

So there is another reason for strapping them a lack of confusion and ease of access when you need them.
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Old 07-04-2009, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by General Pain
if its packed with dirty dipers som vials of the plague , a faulty frag , a bottle of acid, 3 molotov cocktails and a pund of heroin...well that would be a interily different matter...
That leads to the inevitable question: why is your PC carrying those things around -- especially the dirty diapers?
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Old 07-04-2009, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by General Pain
I'd guess it would depend of what's in it...
Yes, we should be asking: What's the AV of a can of Spam?
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Old 07-04-2009, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copeab
Yes, we should be asking: What's the AV of a can of Spam?
It's quite dense. It's the real secret behind Chobham.
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  #14  
Old 07-04-2009, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b
It's quite dense. It's the real secret behind Chobham.

C =3
H = 8
O = 15
B = 2
H = 8
A = 1
M = 13
-----------
Tot= 50

S = 19
P = 16
A = 1
M = 13
--------------
Tot = 49

Pretty close. You might be on to something.
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  #15  
Old 07-07-2009, 06:20 PM
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I'm straping cans of SPAM to the LAV 25....Cheap fix at AV 49. Don't tell the Brits' Python fans will come out of the woodwork.
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Old 07-07-2009, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pfc SAFU
I'm straping cans of SPAM to the LAV 25....Cheap fix at AV 49. Don't tell the Brits' Python fans will come out of the woodwork.
There's better armor available -- strap fruitcakes to the outside!
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Old 07-07-2009, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b
There's better armor available -- strap fruitcakes to the outside!
But wouldn't Targan squirm too much if you tied him to the outside?
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  #18  
Old 07-07-2009, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdnwolf
But wouldn't Targan squirm too much if you tied him to the outside?
Odd member choice for that joke in my opinion. If we are going for gamewise nutty I would go for General Pain (with a bonus for his prosthetic limbs) or Major Po. But at least you didn't say it about Law. That might have ended almost 200 years of peace between our two countries.

Last edited by kato13; 07-08-2009 at 01:16 AM.
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Old 07-07-2009, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdnwolf
But wouldn't Targan squirm too much if you tied him to the outside?
We all have to make our little sacrifices...What is the AV of a human body anyway? Is there any truth to what we called Marines at the 82nd (self-propelled sandbags)?
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Old 07-07-2009, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b
What is the AV of a human body anyway?
With or without kevlar?

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Old 07-07-2009, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b
We all have to make our little sacrifices...What is the AV of a human body anyway?
According to most action movies I've seen, pretty high. The goodguys are always using baddy redshirts to soak up loads of bullets from their baddy pals, usually at short range. The hero rarely even gets scratched.

"Meatshield" = AV 2
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Old 07-07-2009, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b
What is the AV of a human body anyway?
Again going back to density:

Average Human body = 1010 kg/m³

So at the same thickness little more than half a sandbag.
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Old 07-07-2009, 11:48 PM
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And as it takes a couple of properly packed sandbags to stop a 7.62N round....

Human AV = not enough to count much.
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Old 07-07-2009, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legbreaker
And as it takes a couple of properly packed sandbags to stop a 7.62N round....

Human AV = not enough to count much.
Damn! So much for that human-body Chobham variant I was working on in my garage -- now what do I do with all the bodies of my victims?
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Old 07-08-2009, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b
Damn! So much for that human-body Chobham variant I was working on in my garage -- now what do I do with all the bodies of my victims?
Yet another thread I have to hide from the FBI
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Old 07-08-2009, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b
That leads to the inevitable question: why is your PC carrying those things around -- especially the dirty diapers?
hmm...I probably had one too many rum&cokes when I wrote that.... On the other hand it's a "post-apoc" scenario so I guess anything is possible....the chance of meeting a npc with said belongings in his rucksack could be possible...lots of deranged,weird,crazy,angry,disturbed and insane characters out there hehe
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Old 07-08-2009, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kato13
Odd member choice for that joke in my opinion. If we are going for gamewise nutty I would go for General Pain (with a bonus for his prosthetic limbs) or Major Po. But at least you didn't say it about Law. That might have ended almost 200 years of peace between our two countries.
I'm laughing out loud....at work,.,,,,,behave people......stop writing too witty remarks....seriosly...continue....
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Old 07-08-2009, 01:38 AM
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I have a question on Sandbags... I saw a sandbag that was HUGE... it was about the size of a body bag (just a little wider) and looked like it could have a twin bed mattress stuffed in it. but it was made out of that weave of tough cloth-plastic... I keep thinking of the kinds of things those HUGE sandbags could be used for.. Such as stuffing them with straw or featers or cotton to be used as mattresses, or using them to bury your dead. North Africa they burried US servicemembers in cotton bags.
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Old 07-08-2009, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kato13
Odd member choice for that joke in my opinion. If we are going for gamewise nutty I would go for General Pain (with a bonus for his prosthetic limbs) or Major Po. But at least you didn't say it about Law. That might have ended almost 200 years of peace between our two countries.
hehehe

Haven't heard from LAW in ages...is he allright?

btw: quote from GRAN TORINO : Walt Kowalski: I used to stack fucks likes you, five feet high in Korea, use ya for sand bags....

Excellent Movie btw...I recomend it.
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Old 07-08-2009, 01:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kato13
Yet another thread I have to hide from the FBI
yeah those damn "Federal BOOB inspectors"
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