Japan in Twilight 2000

[Legbreaker]

Welcome indeed.

Japan as far as I am aware was not a military ally of either side and did not directly take part in the fighting. Obviously it was still effected in some way, and I tend to agree it would have attracted at least a few nukes (I can see Japan being used in a similar manner as it was during the Vietnam and Korean wars, as a rear area for Nato).

With regard to food and other supplies, it's in a fairlly good position. While unable to support itself on the whole, it does have the advantage of being surrounded by sea and therefore much less able to be attacked by land forces. With all possible enemies already engaged in other parts of the world, this is probably less important than the availablity of fishing.

It may also have continued trade with Australia for it's grain and meat, although if it had been nuked, or even after EMP had effectively wiped out anything electronic, I'm not too sure what it would have to trade with. Spare parts to get damaged systems back up and running is possibly the best option, however Japan itself is unlikely to have much in the way of high tech production facilities left.

[John Farson]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Welcome indeed.

Japan as far as I am aware was not a military ally of either side and did not directly take part in the fighting. Obviously it was still effected in some way, and I tend to agree it would have attracted at least a few nukes (I can see Japan being used in a similar manner as it was during the Vietnam and Korean wars, as a rear area for Nato).

With regard to food and other supplies, it's in a fairlly good position. While unable to support itself on the whole, it does have the advantage of being surrounded by sea and therefore much less able to be attacked by land forces. With all possible enemies already engaged in other parts of the world, this is probably less important than the availablity of fishing.

It may also have continued trade with Australia for it's grain and meat, although if it had been nuked, or even after EMP had effectively wiped out anything electronic, I'm not too sure what it would have to trade with. Spare parts to get damaged systems back up and running is possibly the best option, however Japan itself is unlikely to have much in the way of high tech production facilities left.

Thanks.

Good points. I agree that Japan wouldn't have been involved in the actual fighting, since its constitution prohibits it from any aggressive military action (even peacekeeping missions are controversial there). I have my doubts if they would have even tried to grab the Kuriles or Sakhalin, though the US would have no such hang-ups. The Kuriles are important to them, yes, but I don't think they'd be worth inviting a Russian nuclear attack. Therefore, I think any TW2000 fighting occurring around the Kuriles and Sakhalin was between US and allied forces and Russia, with Japan acting as a rear area, like you said.

About food, yes fishing is definitely in the cards. After all seafood, apart from rice, is the Japanese staple food. But with the nuclear attacks, the collapse in international trade and trade routes, the disruption in communications and the collapse of the transportation network I'm not as positive as you that Japan would stave off the worst disaster. True, Japan doesn't face invastion or any of that (what with China glowing in the dark and Siberia imitating the Mad Max flicks), but its worst enemies aren't China and Russia: It's famine, disease and social unrest. Just like the US Norhteast in Howling Wilderness, I can imagine hordes of hungry survivors from Japan's nuked out cities descending onto the countryside like locusts, devouring everything in their path despite staunch attempts by the rural folk to turn them back.

As for trade... well, based on what little I know about Twilight 2000 Asia and Oceania, it seems the only intact states left that Japan can trade with are Thailand, Australia and New Zealand, with organized communities scattered all over the place in the rest of the Pacific Rim with areas of lawlessness in between. All of these places are pretty far from Japan, so any trade venture wouldn't come cheap or easy. Fuel ranging from scarce to non-existant (I guess people would resort to steam or sail ships instead), GPS being a thing of the past, shortage of people who actually know how to sail and navigate etc. Then of course there's the issue of piracy. I imagine that after TDM the world's seas and oceans would have a piracy problem that'd make the one off Somalia look like a piece of cake by comparison. I can see many ordinary fisherman moonlighting as pirates just to make ends meet and feed their families.

And you touched upon the issue of just what would Japan (or rather individual Japanese communities, since central government would be more or less a bad joke at this point) have to trade. Spare parts for damaged systems would be a definite product, but like you said, it'd be unlikely that Japan would be able to produce them in sufficient quantities. Not to mention that the Japanese might prefer to keep them for themselves in the hope of fixing and rebuilding their own equipment. I could see an enterprising local leader or warlord do what the leader of Pittsburgh does in Fallout 3: the Pitt, that is using impressed "workers" to scavenge steel and metal as resources for the reopened steel mills and factories.

[Targan]

Hello John. You've really started posting here with a bang haven't you? Good topic for a thread, I like it. I agree that Japan would be a horrible mess by 2000. The fighting in Korea during the Twilight War was fierce, that alone would have resulted in some sort of spill-over effects for Japan. Japan would definitely have been nuked more than canon says.

Do you have an English translation of the Finnish Sourcebook?

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Targan

Do you have an English translation of the Finnish Sourcebook?

Does anyone? This is the one T2K resource that I'd love to have, but due to the language issues, will probably never get.

Japan today is almost certainly overcrowded (just look at their trains), however a few nukes on the major cities should reduce this to a more managable level. Japan in years gone past has managed to feed itself, so provided the population was to drop to say 19th century levels, there shouldn't be too many empty stomachs compared to arible land.

Piracy in SE Asia is a definate problem even now. It's no uncommon for yachts, small boats even the odd larger cargo ship to be boarded. This problem as you point out is only likely to spread as long as there is trade being carried on in the region.

A route from Japan to Australia and New Zealand may avoid these troubles by staying well away from the tropical islands and heading along the Marianas, down to the Solomons, then either Fiji/Tonga if going to New Zealand, or Noumea. Not exactly the quickest of routes, but does avoid the traditionally dangerous waters around Indonesia and the Phillipines. With (sparsely) inhabited islands scattered along the path, navigation shouldn't be too hard provided an accurate compass and maps are on hand.

Sail power will of course be the easiest, however this isn't all that condusive to shifting large cargos of badly needed grain. The good news however is that coal should be readily available in Australia, particuarly in the Woolongong and Newcastle areas (respectively south and north of Sydney about a 100 miles or so). Newcastle also has a good deep water port and a history as an industrial city.

The problem is though that Newcastle, and to a lesser extent Wollongong are probable nuclear targets, primarily because of their coal, steel and ports (they're in my top 6 Australian target list). Another problem is Coal ceased to be a commonly used ship fuel a number of years ago. It would take time to convert diesel powered shipping (if it's even possible), however up until say mid 98 to early 99 I can see the government doing everything it could to keep trade with Japan continuing (Australia will desperately need the electonics to repair EMP damaged infrastructure).

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Does anyone? This is the one T2K resource that I'd love to have, but due to the language issues, will probably never get.

The reason I asked is because John Farson said this:

Originally Posted by John Farson

BTW, the Finnish Twilight 2000 sourcebook has this to say about Japan: Fighting over the Kuriles and Sakhalin brought nuclear strikes on Japan in 1997. Japanese industry suffered significant damage and Tokyo is almost destroyed. Martial law hasn't been officially declared, but many areas are ruled de facto by JSDF officers who also possess civilian government posts. All communities are either isolated or independent, though nominally controlled by the government. The major cities have been destroyed, mostly due to social unrest caused by the cessation of world trade and imports.

Maybe he speaks Finnish? Or maybe he has access to an English translation of the book?

[Mohoender]

Hello and welcome

Concerning Japan, that might interest you: http://www.mod.go.jp/e/d_policy/index.html

I agree with what you are saying here and I just want to add one thing. Indeed, I would consider that Japan will be nuked to some extend (US bases and major cities) and I'm convinced that part of the population will die from hunger. However, something else might add to the bad situation there: natural disasters. I have no real knowledge about that but I would expect that the level of nuclear exchange results in an increase of earthquakes, volcano activites and tsunamis.

About its involvement, Japan will probably not send ground troops outside of its borders but the air force might be engaged as far as South Korea and the navy should be involved in accordance to the treaty with US.

The article V of the treaty with US will allow Japan to act, or so I think, as UN has collapsed. Nevertheless, the article 9 of their constitution will prevent them to go too far. Finally, the government interpretation of it and the extend of popular support will modify this as well. For my part, I even consider that the JGSDF is even involved in South Korea as the collapse of South Korea has come to be seen as a direct threat to the very existence of Japan.

Here are what I think to be the important points stated by the government of Japan. The minimum level necessary for self-defense will change greatly under the Twilight War.

B. Requisites for Exercise of Right of Self-Defense.

The use of armed force for the exercise of the right of self-defense under Article 9 of the Constitution is confined to corresponding to the following three requisites:
(i) there is an imminent and illegitimate act of aggression against Japan;
(ii) there is no appropriate means to repel this aggression other than the use of the right of self-defense; and
(iii) the use of armed strength is confined to the minimum level necessary for repelling.

C. Geographical Scope of Exercise of Right of Self-Defense.

The geographical scope of use of the minimum force necessary to defend Japan as the use of self-defense right is not necessarily confined to the Japanese territorial land, sea and airspace. Generally speaking, however, there is no specific definition of how far this geographic area stretches, since it would vary with each individual situation.

It is, however, not permissible constitutionally to dispatch armed troops to foreign territorial land, sea and airspace for the purpose of using military power, as a so-called overseas deployment of troops, since it generally exceeds the minimum level necessary for self-defense.

By the way, if any one knows Japanese, I'll be interested in having a full translation of that website (Ground Forces, as always, have been lazy). Santa is late for me.

[Webstral]

Welcome aboard, John.

Japan is a base for US and possibly Allied operations in the ROK, as has been pointed out. This is a perfectly adequate explanation for nuclear action against Japan. The Japanese Navy (Maritime Self Defense Force?) is supposed to work hand-in-hand with the USN against Soviet naval forces. Wherever the constitutional line is drawn, the Allies will push against it. The Soviets will notice.

At the risk of beating a dead horse, I will point to the nuclear treatment of Canada as a yardstick for how the Soviets will restrain themselves when it comes to the use of nuclear fires against non-nuclear Allies. The Soviets absolutely pasted Canada, which had no organic nuclear arsenal. Whether the US retaliated against the USSR or retaliated against a Warsaw Pact ally or other Soviet client is an open question. Nevertheless, the Soviets did far worse to Canada in terms of national damage than they did to the US. Japan, not having any of her own nukes and almost certainly having participated at some level in the fighting in the Far East, should expect the same leniency the Soviets showed non-nuclear, US-allied Canada.

I agree with you, John, that the 2300 AD line of a nearly intact Japan reflects little careful thought. I'm inclined to agree that Threads is a more accurate summary of the situation in Japan of 2000. On the plus side, imagine what a rich gaming environment Japan in 2000 would be!

Webstral