40mm Beehive round

[Legbreaker]

Anyone see any practical use for this that can't be already done (and probably better) by a simple burst from an automatic weapon?
What are your thoughts Paul? Can't see it on your site.

Attachment 4122

[Apache6]

There is an existing 40mm buckshot round that fires 24, 00 buck shot projectiles.

I'm fairly certain 24 pellets of 00 buck is going to do more damage then 18 rounds of .22.

I'm guessing that the "beehive" round is actually a "pepper pot" which has barrels for each of the 18 .22lr rounds. Seems like that would be more expensive and less lethal then the buckshot round.

There is also a variant of the buckshot round with fewer larger 'rubber balls' that is a less lethal crowd control round.

[Legbreaker]

Yes, personally I'm quite dubious about the effectiveness of the .22 projectiles, even though there's 18 of them.
I'm sure like most of us, I've shot my fair share of them, mainly hunting, and it takes a well placed shot to take down anything much bigger than a rabbit. This thing is would be lucky to wound an opponent in body armour, and most likely just annoy them a bit.
That's my opinion of it anyway.

I'm aware of other multi projectile 40mm rounds although never got my hands on any (HEDP, ILLUM, Prac, was about it for me). The flechette and shotgun type rounds surely have to be more effective than this thing though.

One (and possibly only) advantage this has is it's reloadable, provided you've got a supply of .22 available.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Apache6

There is an existing 40mm buckshot round that fires 24, 00 buck shot projectiles.

I'm fairly certain 24 pellets of 00 buck is going to do more damage then 18 rounds of .22.

I'm guessing that the "beehive" round is actually a "pepper pot" which has barrels for each of the 18 .22lr rounds. Seems like that would be more expensive and less lethal then the buckshot round.

There is also a variant of the buckshot round with fewer larger 'rubber balls' that is a less lethal crowd control round.

Do you happen to know the designation of this round? I keep hearing about it but nobody can give me a designator number. I suspect it is one of the newer rounds that have come out since the M320 was adopted (because it can handle longer and higher pressure rounds than the M79 and M203).

[Legbreaker]

A couple of useful links.
https://www.globalsecurity.org/milit...tions/m576.htm
http://inetres.com/gp/military/infan...40mm_ammo.html

Also worth noting the wealth of adaptors/sleeves available allowing use of full sized 12 gauge ammo (and others) which mitigate the high pressure problem.

Attachment 4128

[Rockwolf66]

The Beehive round is an interesting round as it is marginally more effective than a 40mm buckshot round.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22.html

As for lethality there is a report out of the Balkans conflicts of a Croat point-man who used a suppressed American 180 SMG. The guy would encounter Serbs and let off a burst of 20 or so rounds usually killing the enemy point element before they could raise an alarm.

With a beehive round the bullets would be deflected by just about anything. leading to 18 random trajectories. it might not hit anything but it might make someone duck.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

A couple of useful links.
https://www.globalsecurity.org/milit...tions/m576.htm
http://inetres.com/gp/military/infan...40mm_ammo.html

Also worth noting the wealth of adaptors/sleeves available allowing use of full sized 12 gauge ammo (and others) which mitigate the high pressure problem.

Attachment 4128

Thanks for the links Leg but they use the older outdated information. I really haven't found a source that can confirm the existence of the 00 Loading (if one exists). The M576 contains plate #4 Buckshot because you CANNOT fit 20 00 pellets into a 12 gauge hull (15 to 18 will fit into a 12 Gauge 3.5" Magnum hull) and only 18 will fit into a 10 Gauge hull. I think I would use one of those cool "inserts" designed to fire 12 Gauge Shells in my 40mm (given the choice). They are also available for Flare Guns/Launchers and are well-proven technology.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

Thanks for the links Leg but they use the older outdated information. I really haven't found a source that can confirm the existence of the 00 Loading (if one exists). The M576 contains plate #4 Buckshot because you CANNOT fit 20 00 pellets into a 12 gauge hull (15 to 18 will fit into a 12 Gauge 3.5" Magnum hull) and only 18 will fit into a 10 Gauge hull. I think I would use one of those cool "inserts" designed to fire 12 Gauge Shells in my 40mm (given the choice). They are also available for Flare Guns/Launchers and are well-proven technology.

I'm a little confused here. Are you saying the M576 does not hold 20 pellets of 00 buck because you can't fit 20 into a shotgun hull?

[CDAT]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Anyone see any practical use for this that can't be already done (and probably better) by a simple burst from an automatic weapon?
What are your thoughts Paul? Can't see it on your site.

Attachment 4122

My only thought is that it is likely to put the rounds much closer together than a 18round burst, but other than that nothing comes to mind.

[Raellus]

I know that LRRPs and SOG recon teams in Vietnam often used cut-down M79 grenade launchers firing buckshot rounds to break contact during engagements. Some point men carried these as their primary weapon (although most preferred something more versatile). LRRP and SEAL point men also sometimes carried 12-gauge shotguns. The reason/principle behind this decision is more or less the same. Maximum dispersal of rounds (at close range) in the shortest period of time, and the psychological impact of the sound of a shotgun blast.

In a burst of automatic fire, unless the shooter is waving the barrel of his weapon around, the rounds tend to follow roughly the same path downrange. A 40mm buckshot, or flechette, or .22 pepperpot round would have more dispersal/wider spread, thereby increasing the odds of a hit. It might not be a fatal or disabling hit (unless the target absorbs multiple projectiles) but it's probably enough to stop them shooting long enough for the good guys to get away. I suppose that a single blast of buckshot, flechettes, or .22 rounds also has quite a negative psychological effect on the recipients.

[Legbreaker]

Recoil generally disperses the rounds in a burst.
This beehive round has 3 inch rifled barrels apparently. Unless they're angled away from parallel somewhat, it's going to have near zero dispersion over what you might jokingly call "effective" range, so the target would be hit with 18 small and rather light soft lead projectiles which will almost certainly just flatten against any body armour.

All that said, would it be fun to shoot? Hell yeah! It'd shred paper targets with the best of them!

[StainlessSteelCynic]

I have a vague recollection that this "beehive" round was developed by a small company in the USA several years ago as a novelty round rather than a serious piece of combat ordnance.
Doing a quick check, it would seem that it might have been made as a way to get more variety in 40mm ammo available to US civilians (destructive rounds are apparently very expensive, if they can be found for sale at all).

Also available in 10-rd capacity (with some good images of the whole contraption)
http://www.freewebs.com/grog/10%2022%20review.htm
https://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/20...-22lr-adapter/

[Olefin]

Well if you have zombies in your game it sounds great - otherwise not sure how effective it would be