Ireland/Northern Ireland Timeline

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by RN7

I believe there is going to be a film about it. The UN should have sent the Irish to Bosnia or Rwanda!

They weren't in Rwanda, but the Irish did have a contingent in Bosnia, and are still in Kosovo, as well as supporting a host of other UN operations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_A...tions_Missions

On a semi related note, T2K wise as part of some notes on what I thought UK Forces in Cyprus might look like in the summer of 2000 I had the British Army taking under command a number of the UN peacekeeping contingents who were stationed on the island and became effectively stranded there when the War started, including one from the Irish Defence Force, thus resulting in British and Irish soldiers serving alongside each other.

[Rapparee]

Impressed to see Jadotville is known about! They call the Congo, "The Forgotten War" over here since there was little or no recognition of that, the Niemba ambush, Second Battle for the Tunnel or the numerous contacts they had.

Just thought I'd post to clear up a few points and to clarify what Mohoender and RN7 were saying. The latters done a fantastic job of outlaying the British capabilities so I thought I'd help uphold the flag (nah, taking the piss!). I'll try to give an overview of the Irish military strength at the time.

Confusion over names: The Irish Reserves were renamed the Reserve Defence Forces in 2005 (RDF), replacing the FCA and ANM(naval reserve) with the Army Reserve(AR) and Naval Reserve(NR). I'll be using both terms throughout but since this is T2K, you can assume I mean the FCA to avoid anarchorisms!


So here goes my shot at the T2K Irish Defence Forces Orbat 1995

The NATO orbat 1989 gives a surprisingly detailed layout. (http://www.scribd.com/doc/37695/NATO...of-Battle-1989)

1. Southern Command

a. 1st Brigade – Cork:

1. 2 Infantry Bns, each: 2 Rifle Cos, Support Co.
2. 1 Cavalry Recon Squadron
3. 1 Field Artillery Regt 4. 1 Engineer Co

b. FCA Group, Southern Command – Cork:

1. 6 Infantry Battalions
2. 1 Motorised Reconnaissance Squadron
3. 2 Field Artillery Regiments
4. 2 Air Defence Batteries
5. 1 Field Engineer Company

2. Eastern Command

a. 2nd Brigade – Dublin:

1. 2 Infantry Bns, each: 2 Rifle Cos, Support Co.
2. 1 Cavalry Recon Squadron
3. 1 Field Artillery Regt
4. 1 Engineer Co

b. Eastern Command Infantry Force – Gormanston: 2 Infantry Bns

c. FCA Group, Eastern Command – Dublin:

1. 4 Infantry Battalions
2. 1 Motorised Reconnaissance Squadron
3. 1 Field Artillery Regiment
4. 1 Air Defence Battery
5. 1 Field Engineer Company

3. Western Command

a. 4th Brigade – Athlone:

1. 2 Infantry Bns, each: 2 Rifle Cos, Support Co.
2. 1 Cavalry Recon Squadron
3. 1 Field Artillery Regt
4. 1 Engineer Co b. 28th Infantry Battalion (Reinforced) – Finner Camp, Bundoran:


c. FCA Group, Western Command – Athlone:

1. 6 Infantry Battalions
2. 1 Motorised Reconnaissance Squadron
3. 2 Field Artillery Regiments
4. 1 Field Engineer Company

4. Curragh Command


a. 6th Brigade – Curragh Camp, County Kildare:

1. 2 Infantry Battalions, each: 2 Rifle Cos, Support Co.
2. 1 Armored Recon Squadron
3. 1 Field Artillery Battery

b. Army Ranger Unit – Curragh Camp:

c. 1st Tank Squadron – Curragh Camp:

14 CVR(T) Scorpions

d. 1st Air Defense Regiment – Curragh Camp:

1 Regular, 3 FCA Air Defense Batteries

e. FCA Group Curragh Command – Curragh:

1. 2 Infantry Battalions
2. 1 Field Artillery Regiment


5. Forces Assigned To UN Duties:

a. UNIFIL Infantry Bn – Lebanon: Formed from elements of other units, includes 4 AML-90, 10 Sisu APC, 4 120mm Mortars.

Note 1: One of the Brigades has a third infantry battalion.

Note 2: Equipment holdings as of early 1990:
14 Scorpion
19 AML-90
32 AML-60, 60 Panhard VTT (Janes says
47)
10 Timoney APCs
48 25pdr Field Guns
12 105mm Light Guns
400 81mm mortars
72 120mm mortars
21 MILAN launchers
444 84mm Carl Gustav’s
96 90mm PV-1110 RR (Finnish?)
24 Bofors 40L60 AA Guns
2 40L70,
7 RBS-70 SAMs

Strength:

The Irish Army's strength would stand around 8,500 as it generally remains at a static size in peacetime. Another 13-14,000 is in the FCA.

There is also a second reserve force in Ireland concisting of former members of the PDF and the Integrated Reserve. Former members are maintained on the rolls. More active members comprise a First Line reserve that in the event of a crisis would be activated before the FCA as they have superior experience and training. The Integrated Reserve is also expected to boost the manpower of PDF units whereas the FCA would be expected to operate seperately and only provide replacements in a dire case. I'm not sure how long former PDF members serve in the First Line reserve but I assume that older members would maintain a lower state of readiness but still be available to be called up in a crisis.

Infantry Weapons:

5.56mm Steyr AUG A1, 9mm Browning handgun, 7.62mm GPMG, 60mm mortars, 81mm Denel mortars, 120mm Brandt mortars. The aforementioned MILAN and Carl Gustav's. Most weapons are up to NATO standard and imported. A limited arms industry does exist though.

Reserve weapons- though officially the FN FAL was replaced in 1988 by the Steyr, the changeover took a longer time with the Army Reserve. Several units were still using them until 2002 before receiving the more modern rifle. Also the MK3 version of the Bren Gun was also a popular reserve weapon until it was finally replaced in 2006 by the GPMG. The Carl Gustav M/45 sub-machine gun was still being used by the PDF till the late 80s and many Reserve units also held onto these venerable weapons as they'd proved themselves in the Congo and Lebanon. Large stocks of these weapons were maintained for years after they were declared obsolete. I know for a fact that the Brens weren't taken care of till at least 2008 so there is an arms surplus in the country during T2K.


Irish Air Corp
1. COIN Squadron: 6 CM-170-2 Super Magister

2. COIN/Training Squadron: 7 SF-260WE, 1 SF-260 MC, 2 SA-342L helos

3. Army Support Squadron: 8 SA-316B Helos

4. Other aircraft: 5 SA-365 in SAR, Naval roles, 7 F-172s in Liason role, 1 HS-125, 1 Super King Air 200

Strength: The Irish Air Corp's strength is just under a thousand, standing at 935.

Irish Naval Service

Deirdre Class Offshore Patrol Vessels:

LÉ Deirdre (P20) (1972–2000)
LÉ Emer (P21) (1978-In Active Service)
LÉ Aoife (P22) (1979-In Active Service)
LÉ Aisling (P23) (1980-In Active Service)

Eithne Class Offshore/Helicopter Patrol Vessel:

LÉ Eithne (P31) (1984-In Active Service)

Peacock Class Coastal Patrol Vessels:

LÉ Orla (P41) (1985-In Active Service)
LÉ Ciara (P42) (1989-In Active Service)

Those are the vessels that would be definetely operational at the time. Given that T2K is an alternative darker history, it is possible that certain vessels weren't decommisioned when they were and that production on others was ordered ahead of time. Particularly since the last two only entered service four or five years after canon says the war began.

Possible Vessels:

Ton-class Minesweepers:

LÉ Grainne (CM10) (1971–1987)
LÉ Banba (CM11) (1971–1984)
LÉ Fola (CM12) (1971–1987)

RóisÃ*n class Offshore Patrol Vessels:

LÉ RóisÃ*n (P51) (1999-In Active Service)
LÉ Niamh (P52) (2001-In Active Service)

The Irish Naval Service also contains the Naval Service Diving Section (NSDS) which conducts combat diving alongside duties such as EOD and SAR. In addition, it also has nominal control over the SAR helicopters belonging to the Irish Coast Guard which is not a military organization.

Strength: The Irish Naval Service has a strength of around 1,444 with another 400 in the reserve.

Civil Units

Garda Siochana

A primarily unarmed policing force, the Garda concists of around 15,000 uniformed patrolling officers. Training in firearms is provided but the normal officer on the street is unarmed except in extreme instances. Special armed units do exist though, such as the ERU(Emergency Response Unit) which train with Army special forces. Specialist water, diver, air and dog units are also present in the Gardai.

Civil Defense

Civil Defense Ireland is the national civil defense organisation in the Republic. It possesses several different services such as an auxiliary fire service, SAR, Ambulance, Water Rescue, Warden (communications/radiation) and Welfare. A volunteer organisation, it has 6,000 members.

Military Standard

Despite Ireland's neutrality, it does have an unexpected amount of combat experience amongst its ranks. The start of the modern army was really the Congo where the soldiers were deployed with World War 2 equipment and emerged with top grade NATO arms and tools by the conclusion of the crisis. 6,000 Irishmen served in the Congo and managed to revitalize a stagnant, corrupt and antiquated force. Peacekeeping would continue in the 70s, with service in Cyprus and the Middle East. 9,000 Irish soldiers have served in Cyprus since 1964.

The one of most relevance to T2K though is service in Lebanon. Beginning in 1978, Irish troops have been part of UNIFIL until 2001. 30,000 Irish soldiers served in Lebanon, meaning by the mid-90s, the majority of the Irish army had been deployed abroad at least once. 47 were killed and they faced frequent hazards from IED's, ambushes and artillery fire. Engagements with the Israeli's, SLA and Hezbollah all occured at one time or another. So while the Republic's armed forces might have a lack of combat experience compared to the UK in this scenario, the Irish forces will at least have some idea of what conflict is like.

State in T2K:
The one issue I have with this scenario is thus. I believe the British Army would royally trash the IDF in a conflict in Northern Ireland, their professional standard and resources is undeniable. I just find it inappropriate with the setting. I can hardly see them deploying MBT's in what is effectively a sideshow while the armour is desperately needed in Europe. Even in history, no matter the severity of the conflict, Ireland has always been a secondary or tertiary priority for British forces. The most I can see happening is a primarily infantry based conflict raging across the island, not the curbstomp envisaged.

As far as I'm aware of, the only nuclear attack suffered in Ireland was in Cork (hooray!). Therefore the only affected units would be Southern Command. Their Headquarters infrastructure in Cork itself, along with a couple of formations would be a clean write-up. But the majority of the Command, along with FCA units would be spared. Nuclear fallout could hit Haulbowline Island, the Naval base though. Therefore the Irish military structure would be reasonably intact compared to much of Europes.

In a conflict scenario, I could see a few frigates being detached to eliminate any Irish naval assets and bombing flights being directed to Baldonnell Aerodrome to ensure the Air Corp become a memory. This would leave the Irish Army, an infantry-based force but still with substantial numbers of soldiers. The countryside and urban areas of Northern Ireland would be prime territory for them.

I don't see a victory for either side, a bloody stalemate more like. Any major Irish gains would be halted by temporary diversion of British units while a British campaign would never be completed due to lack of resources in the sideshow conflict. A settlement would probably be negotiated since there are fair more bigger fish for the British to be concerned about!

[Rainbow Six]

Rapparee, that's an impressive write up - well done.

FWIW I totally agree with you that the UK is simply not going to send an armoured Regiment (or even part thereof) across the Irish Sea - as you rightly state there's a far greater need for those tanks in Europe.

if you follow canon I believe it isn't so much the Irish Army up against British regulars - it's effectively the Irish Army fighting the Ulster Defence Regiment (with perhaps a small number of regulars in support roles).

I also agree with your conclusion that a stalemate would be the most likely outcome. The catalyst for peace negotiations might be the return from Europe of the BAOR (iirc two Divisions are back in the UK by the end of 2000 / start of 2001, with three more to follow later in 2001). That said, I think there's a lot of work to be done in the UK before any thought would be given to sending any of the European veterans to NI, but if they do finally cross the Irish Sea that's going to be a huge gamechanger. I'd expect the Republic to want to go to the negotiating table before that happened.

[Mohoender]

Here is something to complete the already impressive post by Rapparee:

- Arm na hÉireann (Irish Army)
o Army HQ
 Army HQ (Parkgate-Dublin)
 Engineer Survey Coy. (Phoenix Park-Dublin)
 Army HQ Signals Coy. (McKee Barracks-Dublin)
 1st Garrison Coy. MP (Government Buildings-Dublin)
o Eastern Command
 Command HQ (Collins Barracks-Dublin)
 McKee Barracks Coy. (McKee Barracks-Dublin)
 Clancy Barracks Coy. (Clancy Barracks-Dublin)
 2nd Maintenance Engineer Coy. (Collins Barracks-Dublin)
 Army Ordnance School (Dublin)
 2nd Garrison Ordnance Coy. (Cathal Brugha Barracks-Dublin)
 2nd Garrison Supply & Transport Coy. (McKee Barracks-Dublin)
 Base Workshops Coy. Supply & Transport Corps (Clancy Barracks-Dublin)
 2nd Hospital Coy. (St. Bricin’s Hospital-Dublin)
 St. Bricin’s Hospital (Dublin)
 2nd Garrison Coy. MP (Collins Barracks-Dublin)
 Army School of Music (Cathal Brugha Barracks-Dublin)
 No. 1 Army Band (Cathal Brugha Barracks-Dublin)
 Command Training Depot (Cathal Brugha Barracks-Dublin)
 Equitation School (McKee Barracks-Dublin)
 Army Catering School (McKee Barracks-Dublin)
o 2nd Infantry Brigade
 Bde. HQ (Collins Barracks-Dublin)
 2nd Infantry Bn. (Cathal Brugha Barracks-Dublin)
 5th Infantry Bn. (Collins Barracks-Dublin/12 Panhard M3)
 2nd Cavalry Sqn. (Cathal Brugha Barracks-Dublin/10 Panhard AML, 3 XA-180)
 2nd Field Artillery Rgt (McKee Barracks-Dublin/6 L118 and 6 QF25)
 2nd Field Engineer Co (Clancy Barracks-Dublin)
 2nd Field Signals Co (Collins Barrracks-Dublin)
 2nd Field Supply & Transport Coy. (Collins Barracks-Dublin)
 2nd Field Medical Coy. (FCA/Cathal Brugha Barracks-Dublin)
 2nd Field Coy. MP (FCA/Collins Barracks-Dublin)
o Eastern Command Infantry Force
 HQ (Gormanston. Meath)
 27th Infantry Bn. (Dundalk, Gormanston, Castleblaney)
 29th Infantry Bn. (Cootehill, Monaghan, Cavan/5 Panhard M3)
o Eastern Command FCA Group
 HQ (Cathal Brugha Barracks-Dublin)
 7th Infantry Bn. (McKee Barracks-Dublin, Swords, Navan, Kells)
 8th Infantry Bn. (Dundalk, Drogheda, Castleblaney, Cavan, Balieboro)
 20th Infantry Bn. (Cathal Brugha Barracks-Dublin)
 21st Infantry Bn. (Bray, Dun Loaghaire, Wicklow)
 11th Cavalry Sqn. (Cathal Brugha Barracks-Dublin/4 Panhard AML)
 7th Field Artillery Rgt. (McKee Barracks-Dublin/12 Brandt 120mm)
 2nd Air Defense Bty (Cathal Brugha Barracks-Dublin/6 Bofors)
 11th Field Engineer Coy. (Clancy Barracks-Dublin)
 11th Field Signals Coy. (Cathal Brugha Barracks-Dublin)
 11th Field Supply & Transport Coy. (Collins Barracks-Dublin)
 11th Field Medical Coy. (Cathal Brugha Barracks-Dublin)
 6th Field Coy. MP (Collins Barracks-Dublin)
o Southern Command
 Command HQ (Cork)
 3rd Maintenance Engineer Coy. (Cork)
 3rd Garrison Ordnance Coy. (Cork)
 3rd Garrison Supply & Transport Coy. (Cork)
 3rd Hospital Coy. (Cork)
 3rd Garrison Coy. MP (Cork)
 Command Training Depot (Cork)
 Band of the Southern Command (Cork)
o 1st Infantry Brigade
 Bde. HQ (Cork)
 3rd Infantry Bn. (Kilkenny, Curragh/16 Panhard M3)
 4th Infantry Bn. (Cork)
 12th Infantry Bn. (Limerick, Clonmel)
 1st Cavalry Sqn. (Fermoy/10 Panhard AML, 3 XA-180)
 1st Field Artillery Rgt (Balincollig/6 L118, 6 Brandt 120mm)
 1st Field Engineer Co (Cork)
 1st Field Signals Co (Cork)
 1st Field Supply & Transport Coy. (Cork)
 1st Field Medical Coy. (FCA/Cork)
 1st Field Coy. MP (Cork)
o Southern Command FCA Group
 HQ (Limerick)
 11th Infantry Bn. (Bandon, Bantry, Clonakilty, Macroom, Skibbereen)
 13th Infantry Bn. (Fermoy, Cahir, Dungarvan, Kanturk, Mallow)
 14th Infantry Bn. (Limerick, Nenagh, Croom, Kilmallock, Newcastle West, Tipperary)
 15th Infantry Bn. (Tralee, Cahirciveen, Dingle, Killarney, Killorglin, Listowel)
 22nd Infantry Bn. (Ennis, Labinch, Killaloe, Kilrush)
 23rd Infantry Bn. (Cork, Middleton)
 3rd Cavalry Sqn. (Clonmel/4 Panhard AML)
 3rd Field Artillery Rgt (Templemore/6 QF25 and 12 Brandt 120mm)
 8th Field Artillery Rgt. (Ballincollig/6 QF25 and 6 Brandt 120mm)
 3rd Air Defense Bty. (Limerick/6 Bofors)
 4th Air Defense Bty. (Cobh/6 Bofors)
 3rd Field Engineer Coy. (Limerick)
 3rd Field Signals Coy. (Limerick)
 3rd Field Supply & Transport Coy. (Limerick)
 3rd Field Medical Coy. (Limerick)
 3rd Field Coy. MP (Limerick)
o Western Command
 Command HQ (Athlone)
 4th Maintenance Engineer Coy. (Athlone)
 4th Garrison Ordnance Coy. (Athlone)
 4th Garrison Supply & Transport Coy. (Athlone)
 4th Hospital Coy. (Athlone)
 4th Garrison Coy. MP (Athlone)
 Command Training Depot (Athlone)
 University Student Admin. Coy. (Galway)
 Band of the Southern Command (Athlone)
o 4th Infantry Brigade
 Bde. HQ (Athlone)
 1st Infantry Bn. (Galway)
 6th Infantry Bn. (Athlone/14 Panhard M3)
 28th Infantry Bn. (Finner Camp, Lifford, Letterkenny)
 4th Cavalry Sqn. (Longford/10 Panhard AML, 3 XA-180)
 4th Field Artillery Rgt (Mullingar/6 L118, 6 Brandt 120mm)
 4th Field Engineer Co (Athlone)
 4th Field Signals Co (Athlone)
 4th Field Supply & Transport Coy. (Athlone)
 4th Field Medical Coy. (FCA/Athlone)
 4th Field Coy. MP (FCA/Athlone)
 Band of the 4th Brigade (Athlone)
 4th Brigade Training Centre
o Western Command FCA Group
 HQ (Galway)
 16th Infantry Bn. (Athlone, Ballinasloe, Tulamore, Ruscommon)
 17th Infantry Bn. (Longford, Granard, Stroke, Ballyconnel, Mohill)
 18th Infantry Bn. (Westport, Enniscrone, Swinford, Ballina)
 19th Infantry Bn. (Boyle, Carrick-on-Shannon, Dallymote, Castlera, Manorhamilton)
 24th Infantry Bn. (Letterkenny, Donegal, Carndonagh, Milford)
 25th Infantry Bn. (Galway, Clifden, Athenry, Loughrea)
 5th Cavalry Sqn. (Castlebar/4 Panhard AML)
 5th Field Artillery Rgt. (Galway/6 QF25 and 12 Brandt 120mm)
 9th Field Artillery Rgt. (Mullingar/12 Brandt 120mm)
 5th Field Engineer Coy. (Galway)
 5th Field Signals Coy. (Sligo)
 5th Field Supply & Transport Coy. (Galway)
 5th Field Medical Coy. (Galway)
 5th Field Coy. MP (Galway)
o Curragh Command
 HQ (Curragh Camp)
 Military College (Curragh)
 General Training Depot (Curragh)
 No.1 Security Coy. (Portlaoise Prison)
 Army Apprentice School (Naas)
 Army Ranger Wing (Curragh)
 9th Infantry Bn. (Kilkenny, Dunamaggin, Ballyragget, Waterford, Portlaoise, Durrow)
 10th Infantry Bn. (Wexford, New Ross, Carnew, Muinebeag, Carlow)
 1st Tank Sqn (Curragh/14 Scorpion, 5 XA-180)
 6th Field Artillery Rgt (Kildare/12 QF25 and 6 Brandt 120)
 1st Air Defence Rgt (Kildare/8 Bofors)
 6th Field Signal Coy. (Curragh)
 Depot & School Cavalry (Curragh)

This is taken from Irish Army OOB 1923-2004 by Adrian J. English
ISBN 0972029672

You’ll find it on books.google.fr

What I put in Italic have been modified or added and doesn't reflect reality. If 2 XA-180 were effectively bought by Ireland, the other ten had been supplied by UN. In the original OOB they are either Panhard AML or Timoney APC. Also in the original OOB as given, there were only 6 L118 howitzer.

The reason I made these changes come from WW2 readings of the Irish Army. At the time, it had grown from 10.000 in 1938 to 40.000 by 1944. Whatever it is very personnal and open to debate.