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View Poll Results: have you been there?
No major altercation 6 20.00%
Non-weapon 17 56.67%
Weapon non-firearm 10 33.33%
Firearm 13 43.33%
Explosive ( morter, arty or ied etc.) 11 36.67%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 07-18-2015, 08:32 PM
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Default combat of any time and place

Just an Old man wondering but I was told that very few of those In the US of A have been in a serious physical confrontation. This would include unarmed, armed but non-firearm and firearm involved situations.
Me, I started young, raised in a stereotypical Irish household and fought my way through school and most of my life since has had mild to serious encounters, of course my choice of professions had a might ta do with the life style but my wife says that I am the exception rather than the rule.
I have had moderate success in avoiding serious injury but have been wounded and hospitalized on a few occasions. Well maybe a tad more than a few, laugh. Let me see blown up, shot, stabbed , cut and sliced, beat up and kicked when I was down, hmmm maybe a lot more than a tad. Well, let us see who else.
Oh if you’re outside the US and A Let me know but answer any how and thanks.
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Old 07-19-2015, 03:59 AM
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No in my case; I live in a pretty quiet part of East London.
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Old 07-19-2015, 08:21 AM
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IED and Non weapon.....

I have been in two uparmored M1114s struck by IEDs.

Unarmed conflicts.... numerous apprehending unruly drunks.

I skipped over firearm..... Bullets all around, shots all around..... but, I don't think I was the specific target or that the haji was trying all that hard anyway.
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Old 07-19-2015, 09:58 AM
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Default To whom it may concern

It ain't the one with your name on it that is scary it's all the other ones flying around.
that counts live fire.
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Old 07-19-2015, 12:49 PM
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Your poll is missing rocks, bricks, feces, and molotov cocktails..... the essential joys of peace keeping missions like Albania or Somalia.
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Old 07-19-2015, 12:58 PM
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Default Ah memories

And urine let us not forget urine!
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Old 07-19-2015, 03:58 PM
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Never had anything while in the military, but as a civilian paramedic I've stared in to the barrel of a shotgun, looked down the pointy end of a knife and had wrestling matches with patients from junkies to drunken, retired school nurses.
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Old 07-19-2015, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
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And urine let us not forget urine!
Urine for a treat anywhere on the African continent.
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Old 07-19-2015, 04:57 PM
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I was tied up and mugged at machete-point when I was 14. When I lived out in the sticks, I had to fight and kill 5 diamondback rattlesnakes (one at a time)- four with rocks and a shovel and one with a 12-gauge. The "armed martial arts" battles were all really nerve-wracking.

So, no. Thankfully, I haven't had to engage in any life or death struggles with any fellow human beings. I really hope to keep it that way. Knock on wood, I've never even been in a fist fight with anyone other than my brother (and those don't count) when we were both kids.

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Old 07-19-2015, 07:52 PM
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Same as Lt. Ox I would think. 1 OIS (Officer involved Shooting) where I returned fire. Another incident where I was fired upon but out of range to return fire. One off duty where I was fired upon and did not return fire.

The two last incidents I cant say the fire was directed at me but it was definitely coming in my general direction.
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Old 07-19-2015, 09:18 PM
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Does this include "friendly fire?" I once had to put my drunken buddy in a wristlock because he started to try to fight EVERYONE!! And he was serious, until I gave him several wrist twists to drive the idea home that he wasn't going to cause trouble in the barracks, especially when SGT Robison (a total asshole who later got out on a psych Chapter) is on duty.
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Old 07-19-2015, 09:23 PM
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Default As in all things

Hell yes! Being scared unto the brown stripes can come from multiple directions. as in friendly fire is always the worst case.
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Old 07-19-2015, 09:25 PM
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"Same as Lt. Ox I would think. 1 OIS (Officer involved Shooting) where I returned fire. Another incident where I was fired upon but out of range to return fire. One off duty where I was fired upon and did not return fire.

The two last incidents I cant say the fire was directed at me but it was definitely coming in my general direction."

Takes a hell of a man to take fire and not return it! you have my deepest respect.
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Old 07-20-2015, 12:27 AM
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NOt that I wouldnt of returned but we didnt have anything with the range to reach them. Long story (well short but).. something ya talk over beers.
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Old 07-20-2015, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LT. Ox View Post
Hell yes! Being scared unto the brown stripes can come from multiple directions. as in friendly fire is always the worst case.
LOL yeah I think I "sharted" my pants on mine.
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Old 07-20-2015, 08:46 AM
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Two Combat Tours to Afghanistan, nothing serious just near miss with a Roadside Bike bomb and rocket attacks
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Old 07-20-2015, 08:56 AM
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grew up in a town where fist fights were a daily occurence in my school and in the multiple bars in town - and also went to college in a city that had very high unemployment and really resented it when the college guys dated the local girls because they had money

Multiple hand to hand fights with fists from elementary school thru college including participating in three all out bar fights in college, during one of which I had to take down a very pissed off gentleman who armed himself with a broken bottle and came at me

one fight with a bum who pulled a knife on me when he objected to me gathering bottles and cans (I wasnt one of those who was rich at my college )for money on "his spot" in my senior year of college

in both cases I managed to disarm them (had several family members in the military who had shown me several ways to disarm someone with a knife)

and had one experience with firearms facing three large gentlemen who were in the process of sabotaging my brother's truck during a dispute with the Teamsters - during which time I blew out one of the tires on their car to show them I meant it when I said get down on the ground - and after my brother searched them we found out they all were packing various pistols
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Old 07-21-2015, 02:31 AM
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I'm in Australia. I had plenty of fist fights at various school, I didn't get big and strong until late in high school so I took far more beatings than I gave out. Last year of school though, a guy jumped me in class and smashed my face into a desk a couple of times. I'd been doing Tae Kwon Do for a year or two at the time and I knocked him out. Fractured his skull, poor bugger, put him in hospital.

I didn't include weapons but I did get stabbed by my stepfather a couple of times. Also got pretty badly mistreated by a former family friend one afternoon too. Child abuse probably doesn't really count though.

I haven't had any real punch-ups as an adult, but I've stared people down plenty of times, especially late at night on or around public transport. I dunno, I guess my angry face is pretty scary
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Old 07-21-2015, 02:40 AM
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Numerous fist fights, had a half dozen attempts to stick a knife in my hide and I've had a couple incidents with firearms.

The real kicker is that I try to be a nice guy and not start any trouble. Hell I rarely go to bars. Unfortunately I am always in need of money and I have worked in some very nasty places. Fortunately for me most of those places are much lower on the list of regional dangerous places than my home town.
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Old 07-21-2015, 06:17 PM
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Default It counts big time

" I didn't include weapons but I did get stabbed by my stepfather a couple of times. Also got pretty badly mistreated by a former family friend one afternoon too. Child abuse probably doesn't really count though."
My old man was an Irish truck driver and an abusive drunk, his favorite thing was to cuff us to our bunk bed and whip us with a belt until we were bloody welts. Yeah man it counts!
I started Kenpo then Aikido at twelve, he left me alone when I got to fifteen and put him in the hospital, my Mom took me to the pawn shop and bought me a Browning 9mm got him home and told him.
What counts is being eye to eye with someone that wants you dead our really hurt.
It makes a change in you that you can mark down on a calendar and say
“that is when I knew what fear is” and can now look back and say “ I made it!”
Thanks to all for posting and voting
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Old 07-22-2015, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Targan View Post

I didn't include weapons but I did get stabbed by my stepfather a couple of times. Also got pretty badly mistreated by a former family friend one afternoon too. Child abuse probably doesn't really count though.

I haven't had any real punch-ups as an adult, but I've stared people down plenty of times, especially late at night on or around public transport. I dunno, I guess my angry face is pretty scary
Child abuse doesn't count? Try growing up under my Stepmonster! Emotional abuse doesn't count? Try growing up in my uber-dysfunctional family!

As for staring people down, try telling them you're schizoaffective, while turning on the crazy eyes. They don't know what schizoaffective means, but they've heard schizo and possibly schizophrenic, and now you have their attention. Add the psychosis diagnosis in -- they hear psychosis, but think psychotic (which technically I am) or psychopathic. Then, with undue care, pull out your swiss army knife, open the longest blade slowly, then say something like, "Now leave before I eat your heart fresh out of your chest." Add some hysterical laughter. That little punk with the switchblade who just told you to give him your car "or I'll cut you" runs away, probably home to change his underwear.

Six months in Wally World and another three months in Womack? I can do crazy, dangerous crazy, catatonic, antisocial, and more. Wonderful learning environment.
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Old 07-22-2015, 10:17 PM
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Default eveil laugh

I like your Defense mechanisms.
Do not dis my functional response
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  #23  
Old 07-24-2015, 10:44 PM
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Default Well....here we go....

1). Numerous scuffles just like every other LE officer here.
2). A beer bottle to the head, and a pool cue to the back; Both while bar bouncing during my college years.
3). A welcome to the sh**storm mortaring on my first night in country during Restore Hope (we were initially housed near Circle 4 North in the University district).
4). A skinny took pot shots at me with an AK on the road outside of Kismayo and I tried to run him down. He ran into a house and I ripped off the awning (tarp on poles) in front of his house. He cracked the window on my uparmored HEMMTT and my passenger side front tire had a bullet hole in it but the CTIS got me home.
5). Got impaled through my right hand (palm to back of wrist) by a thug with a glass shank during a fight while I was working security at dance at Peabody High School in Pittsburgh. The School Police caught him for me.
6). Got my left thumb and middle finger slashed by a shoplifter I was trying to arrest in Warren OH. He tried to stab me in the stomach with a butterfly knife and I caught it. I was very proud of myself for about 2 seconds until he pulled it back and cut the tendon in my thumb and took the top off of my middle finger. I just stood there holding my thumb as he ran off with two cartons of Newports.
7). Got slashed across my left rib cage by a shoplifter with a box cutter in Shadyside (PGH, PA). I didn't even know I was cut or that he had a box cutter until he tried to slash my throat. It was icy and I had hyper-extended his arm to disarm him when we fell on the ice. His arm got broken and that ended the fight (the Pittsburgh cop showing up didn't hurt either). It took 46 stitches to close my wound and I got a written reprimand from the security company I was working for. The perp sued us for his broken arm and my supervisor reprimanded me for costing the company money (it was cheaper to pay the perp's medical bills than fight the suit).
8). Got beaten by 4 gangbangers (Crips) in East Liberty (PGH, PA) trying to stop what I thought were 2 gangsters stealing meat. They opened the festivities with a thrown brick to the head. They followed that brick with a good old fashioned "Pittsburgh Street Beating." 17 days in the ICU and 45 days in the hospital convinced me to stop doing retail theft for a living. They gave me 51 broken bones and a very bad attitude from then on.
9). Got stabbed in the back helping a Vernon Township officer in a fight at a local restaurant. My partner and I were coming back from a prisoner transport and stopped to eat. A fight broke out and when we jumped into help, a drunk then stabbed me with a steak knife. It didn't penetrate the stab guard in my RBR vest (bent right over) but looked fatal to the onlookers. I got a small bruise out of it. The drunk didn't like what he got....from me or the judge.
10). Got shot at by a Meth Cooker with a 12 gauge during an entry. Fortunately he watched too many movies and believed a shotgun didn't have to be aimed. He hipfired and blew a hole in the wall to my right as I breached his front door with a 20 lb sledge. Chris my "overwatch" shot him in the leg with his .40 and luckily NEITHER shot blew up what was a major meth lab. You couldn't even breath in that f***ing place and he and his girlfriend had two toddlers in there. I hope there's a special place in Hell for people like them.
11). Got bitten on my right hand (meatiest part of the base of my thumb) by a female shoplifter who was trying to escape. I had to go through a bunch of tests because she was an addict and had Hepatitis A.
12). Got bitten on my left side ribcage by a drunk while I was bar bouncing. I had him in a headlock and he bit me. Hard.
13). Got bitten on my left bicep by an emotionally disturbed woman that the judge 302'd. She decided she wasn't going to inpatient mental health and really chomped down on my arm. There was an officer from Meadville in the courtroom and it took both of us to get her to let go.

This doesn't fit into "Combat" but it does deserve mentioning....
A). I got shot in the back by an incompetent coworker on the training range. We were working for the Armored Car company and were practicing a dynamic shooting drill involving a reload. we were in an L formation at the back of the car (the way you would be if unloading the truck at the rear) This individual was small in stature and not very proficient with firearms. He had just traded his S&W Model 10 .38 for a P7M8....the most dangerous pistol in the world for an unskilled shooter to use. 3 1/2 lb trigger, weapon cocks and the slide releases with just a squeeze of the frontstrap. He had his finger on the trigger during the reload but had to turn the weapon sideways to reach the mag release because he didn't like using his trigger finger to drop the mag (like H&K had designed it to). He squeezed the slide and the weapon discharged...hitting me at a shallow 30 degree angle right between the shoulder blades. The only reason he survived is the shot knocked the wind out of me and I couldn't outrun the range master as I chased him to the parking lot. He traded in that P7 for a Glock 23. One night he put that Glock in his back pocket (instead of a holster) with a comb and climbed into the truck to get his ditch bag. The gun went off and blew a .40 caliber hole through his right butt cheek. POETIC JUSTICE! they let him go after that. For the record, I had a nasty bruise from the point blank strike but no broken bones or any real injury (despite a hit next to my spine). As I said before, it did wind me. If anyone still has doubts; BODY ARMOR WORKS.....

I think you can see now why I bought my Military Time and retired at 20 years. I felt like my luck had run out.

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  #24  
Old 07-25-2015, 12:31 AM
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my first body armor. Stopped a .45 left lower rib cage. Man what colors the human body can produce with a little help.
9 mm to chest but had plate inserted at the time. trama plate diffused the hit way better and the vest was nearly ten years newer design. Point Blank I think.
I think you have me beat for number of stitches.
And I am glad your still around to tell the WAR stories.
Thanks.
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Old 07-25-2015, 12:24 PM
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I'm sure this applies to most of the LE here but 9 out of 10 of my incidents involved people who were addicts of some kind. Impaired judgement is always a factor in people offering violence to other people.

The reason so many of my incidents were during Retail Theft stops is because of the Law of Unintended Consequences. In the 90's in PA, a 1st Offense was a Summary Offense (like a speeding ticket) unless the value of the item was $200 or more (then it became a Misdemeanor). A 2nd Offense was a Misdemeanor 2 (unless the item's value was $200+, then it was an M1). A 3rd Offense was a Felony 3 (irregardless of the item's value) with jail in most cases. Since most shoplifters are "repeat offenders," they had nothing to lose by fighting with you. Most of the people I had altercations with carried knives for one simple reason. They were prior offenders and many were already on probation/parole. A gun would mean 10 years, but a knife would generally only mean a 48 hour detainer. I will never do retail theft again.
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Old 07-26-2015, 11:39 PM
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Swag,

In one of the retail incidents I was involved with Some Chica was trying to steal something for over an hour it seemed like. My fellow employees and I were doing things in the same areas she was in. Finally she got desperate and ripped open a package of hair color and bolted for the door. Between her and the door was one of my female co-workers. I got involved when my co-worker started screaming for help after pinning the shoplifter to a register counter. Said perp went from threatening to pleading and begging. My co-worker warned me that the shoplifter had a knife. All I had on me at the time was a cheap sheet metal boxcutter due to store policy. It seemed like forever for the cops to leave the corner starbucks and get into the store. Said Shoplifter had a large Kitchen knife on her. Alledgedly she was four months pregonant and drunk on thunderbird. She was trying to steal something to get in with some clique.

There are some days when I want to watch California burn.
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Old 07-27-2015, 04:19 PM
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While in the Air Force I had two off duty incidents with guys armed with bats. Unfortunately for them, I had a 9mm. Didn't shoot anyone, but the sight of a 9mm pointed at their heads sure took the aggressiveness out of them!! And I made it clear they WOULD be shot in the head. You have a need to pull a gun in my opinion, and then have to shoot, you shoot to kill. Never know if they have a gun on them or not, and I don't intend to get shot by someone I just wanted to scare by shooting in the leg or some such nonsense.

We did have infiltrators that tried to get on the base one night in Korea, but the ROK battalion that manned the perimeter shot them up with M60s and claymores. Only found blood trails next day.
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Old 07-28-2015, 09:39 PM
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Swag, your stories make me think I'd be a terrible cop. If I were stabbed from behind, I doubt I'd be able to stop myself from failure drilling him.

Baghdad. The usual. No confirmed kills. No idea how many unconfirmed kills. Few, I hope. I never pressed the trigger without having a target except for the warning shot I fired at Iraqi PSD who were loitering in front of the checkpoint. Got through a couple of incidents without ever firing a shot because I couldn't get my front sight post on a target. I'm much prouder of the guy I could have popped but didn't than any kill I arguably could have claimed. Let the Apache pilots explain their numbers to St. Peter.
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Old 07-28-2015, 09:54 PM
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I have been in two real bar fights.
The first one I took a few, 3 as I remember, good hits but I did hit him once that I do remember. He hit me once more and I "woke up" in the slammer. My antagonist was in the cell next to me with the most hideous bruise on his face I have ever seen! He wanted to press charges on ME for assault with a deadly weapon before a kind Lt. had a "coming to Jesus" with the two of us and flat out told me that I have half an hour to go away before he let him out. I really like that Lt. Had it had gone differently I am pretty sure my Military Career would have ended up with a dishonorable discharge. The weapon I hit him with? It was the cast that was on my (re)broken arm! Bad choice of "weapon" and the Lt saw it my way as well.

The second was just a drunk who thought my fiancé was his girl friend. Long story short. He came at me with a beer bottle and I somehow luckily broke his collar bone as he came charging. That was pretty open and shut because of his history, thankfully. By the way, I don't consider a beer bottle a weapon, I wasn't hit with it either though.

Then I got into two armed interactions. The first was that I was working as a Cowboy in Arizona, after I got medicaled out of the service. I must preface this as I swear upon my children's lives it's true. Me and the other guy with me ended up shooting 3 of 4 dogs that were killing our calves. Later that night, we met the owners when they rode into our camp. Shotguns and pistols in hand. When asked if we had seen their dogs we did the most natural thing that a cowboy could do in such a situation, we lied our a@@ off and told them NO. My buddy took off ahorse back to get help. I stayed stoked the fire and hid in the brush with my own horse saddled. A few hours later they came back and started ran sacking our camp. And, I ended up holding the 4 of them at gun point with an old but trusty 35 Remington until the police arrived.

The other time, I drew a 9mm on a Mexican gang banger who was threatening me and my girlfriend. By the time I got to my truck he was next to the door and he lifted his shirt for me to see his pistol tucked into his waist band. I lifted my pistol but it was pointing at him through the glass. We drove off without further instance, thankfully.

I never went overseas, got squished while fastroping. These are all that has really scared the heck out of me once I got through the incident. I DO however have lots and lots of fights with cattle and horses. Some won, most lost if they are applicable. Though I doubt it.
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Old 07-28-2015, 11:28 PM
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LT. Ox LT. Ox is offline
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Now that is good. I grew up in Richmond Ca. Worked for Oakland PD. Moved to western Colorado by invitation to a County Sheriff’s Office.
Sooooooo, I am to start and help train a SWAT team, no problem had some very good people to work all with recent military all but one over thirty.
Sheriff wanted me to put together a “new and modern” weapons training program, no problem again a lot of very good people and willing to try new techniques.

But!!! Whenever a call came in that a horse had gotten lose or sheep or cattle or damn emus guess who dispatch gave the call to if I was working, yep the city guy. A good old boy < cowboy from Wyoming, takes me in hand and says “Pard you need to get a Lead??? And keep it in your trunk. “

I got off on the wrong foot with him with my Irish humor and I say to him” you know what the only animal dumber than a horse is? “He looks at me all curious and I tell him “any damn fool that gets on one.” He sort of held that against me for about two years.

Now I have been here for over forty years and have a Granddaughter that rides barrels and is a rodeo Queens attendant, she is fourteen, and guess who bought the dang horse for her and made her white chaps? Would not have it any other way.
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