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Old 01-08-2018, 08:02 PM
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Default T2K Naval War in the Pacific

I'm attempting to describe the T2K naval war in the Pacific and I could use a little assistance. There's very little mention of the theatre in canon. If you know of any references, please let me know.

Here's what I could use help with. I'm having a hard time reconstructing the composition of the U.S. Pacific Fleet during the later years of the Cold War. I'd like to add verisimilitude to my account by including specific ship names and such.

Here's a very rough outline.



Timeline T2K Naval War in the Pacific

1995: Waiting Soviet SSNs sink Chinese SSBNs as the latter sallies forth following declaration of war. PRC nuclear second-strike capability badly depleted

Eschewing decades of strategic naval doctrine, powerful Soviet Pacific Fleet (SPF) battle group conducts audacious raid on Shanghai, showering port facilities with cruise missiles. Most of PLN surface fleet destroyed defending. SPF gains valuable operational experience.

SPF task force completes transfer of troops, SAMs/AAA and SPF surface elements to Cam Ranh Bay, Vietnam.

Late 1996: Advised of strong possibility of war between USSR and USA, main force SPF returns to relative security of its bases (its primary mission is defense of such).

Dec. 19th, 2006. DPRK invades ROK. KPA Navy assists in landing commandos & launches raids and engages elements of ROKNAV before returning to port. Light ROKNAV losses; moderate KPA Navy losses.

Winter, 1997-1998: U.S. 7th Fleet arrives. Launches air raids against KPA navy facilities. Light USN/ROKNAV losses; KPA navy destroyed (except for a few lurking submarines, most of which are hunted down & destroyed with little to show for their sacrifice).

Provoked by KPA ballistic missile strikes on port facilities (aimed at disrupting flow of supplies and reinforcements to US forces, Korea), Japan declares war on North Korea; launches airstrikes on KPA missile launch sites near Wonson; sends JDF 1st Airborne Brigade to Korea (technically attached to UN forces, Korea).

Soviet submarines attack elements of 7th Fleet near Korea. Light USN losses. Intense ASW operations in Japanese Sea, Korean Strait, Yellow Sea, East China Sea. Moderate Soviet submarine losses.

Spring, 1996: 7th Fleet CVGB/CSG launches raid on Cam Ranh Bay. Light USN surface/sub force losses; heavy air group losses. Heavy Soviet air and naval losses.

Summer, 1997: 7th Fleet CSG, Expeditionary Strike Group (amphibs), and Battleship Battle Group support landing of 4th MarDiv and 6th ROK Marine Brigade "Black Dragon" south of Nampo, DPRK/Taedong River estuary. New Jersey and Iowa gunfire support proves invaluable in destroying KPA coastal artillery and anti-aircraft defenses. Light USN losses. Landing is successful, unhinging KPA's main line of resistance along the DMZ.

Late Summer, 1997: Soviet Yalu Front attacks U.S. 8th Army near Yalu River*

Battle of the Kuriles- Soviet Pacific Fleet makes feint at Kuriles, drawing out Japanese Fleet & U.S. CBG. Soviet naval aviation (mostly land-based Backfire bombers), submarines, and surface force inflict heavy losses on Allied force; Heavy Soviet air losses; moderate Soviet surface force losses.

Autumn, 1997: U.S.N. launches raids on Vladivostok. Heavy Soviet naval and air losses; heavy USN carrier air group losses; moderate USN surface losses.

*2/19/98: Sealift bearing 6th MarDiv badly depleted by Soviet commerce raiders;

Spring, 1998: Battle of Kamchatka- USN launches raids on Kamchatka SPF bases; Soviet Pacific Fleet sorties (supported by land-based air); general fleet engagement- heavy losses on both sides.

Summer, 1998: SPF essentially no longer exists; scattered Soviet commerce raiders continue to terrorize shipping in the Pacific. US Pacific Fleet badly depleted. Most surviving surface vessels employed in convoy escort/ASW operations.

Fuel runs out- most vessels, most navies, tied up in port...

*Specifically mentioned in canon.

---

Constructive feedback is welcome
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Old 01-08-2018, 11:50 PM
RN7 RN7 is online now
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Good work Raellus. A few points.

Some of the US Navy 7th Fleet was already forward deployed in Japan. 6,300 US Navy personnel in Japan in 1990's with 1 carrier and 8 escorts at Yokosuka, and 3 SSN's and 3 amphibs at Sasebo. Also Carrier Air Wing 5 is at Atsugi. There are also 15,000 USAF (5th Air Force) in Japan with 120 combat aircraft, and 22,000 Marines in Okinawa including the 1st Marine Aircraft Wing.

Chinese PLAN was woefully outclassed by Soviets at this time and would have been chewed to pieces by Soviet submarines and aircraft. However the Soviet surface fleet was also very vulnerable to US Navy carrier aircraft and land based aircraft. Most Soviet naval action in the Pacific against US Navy would have been through submarines and Tu-22M Backfire bombers. Soviet Air Force would likely be main opponent of US aircraft in air.

Soviet Pacific Fleet:
Bases: Vladivostok, Petropavlovsk, Magadan, Sovyetskya Gavan, Cam Ranh Bay (Vietnam)
Submarines: 98 (24 SSBN, 18 SSGN, 22 SSN, 3 SSG, 27 SS)
Surface Fleet: 2 carriers, 14 cruisers, 7 destroyers, 40 frigates
Other Ships: 65 patrol craft, 102 minesweepers, 21 amphibs, 230 support and miscellaneous vessels
Naval Air: 240 combat aircraft and 99 helicopters
80 bombers (60 Tu-22M, 20 Tu-16)
50 combat aircraft (50 Yak-26) afloat
45 combat aircraft (10 Su-24, 35 Su-17) ashore
65 ASW aircraft (15 Tu-142, 17 IL-38, 33 Be-12)
61 ASW helicopter (23 Ka-25, 38 Ka-27) afloat
28 ASW helicopter (28 Mi-14) ashore
37 MR/EW aircraft (2 An-12, 20 Tu-16, 15 Tu-95)
10 MR helicopter (10 Ka-25)
5 MCM helicopter (5 Mi-14)
10 assault helicopter (10 Ka-27)
5 communication aircraft (5 Tu-142)
10 tanker aircraft (10 Tu-16)
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Old 01-09-2018, 10:38 PM
dylan dylan is offline
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Chinese didn't have multiple SSBNs in this time period sorry.

They had a single 092 XIA class SSBN that was never fully operational and never conducted deterrent patrol. It entered a shipyard for overhaul in 1995, and didn't reappear for over five years.
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Old 01-10-2018, 12:58 PM
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Thanks, Dylan. I was under the impression that the PLN had a small number of SSBNs c.1995, but I was wrong. I will amend my account.
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Old 01-10-2018, 01:42 PM
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If you wanted to spice things up a little bit for the ChiCom-Soviet phase of the war. You could always say the Chinese built a carrier task force around the ex-HMAS Melbourne.
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Old 01-10-2018, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dylan View Post
Chinese didn't have multiple SSBNs in this time period sorry.

They had a single Type 092 XIA class SSBN that was never fully operational and never conducted deterrent patrol. It entered a shipyard for overhaul in 1995, and didn't reappear for over five years.
China might have built two 092 Xia Class SSBN. The first was built in 1981 but was not fully operational until 1988. It is considered very noisy and limited in capabilities compared with Western and Russian submarines. A second boat may have been built in 1982 but there is little information about it, and it might have been lost in an accident in 1985. The Type 092 is considered to be a test design for the later and improved Type 095 that entered service in 2007.
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Old 01-10-2018, 04:36 PM
Olefin Olefin is offline
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If there is one place that the canon could use a major overhaul its the Pacific War - i.e. the fact that according to Satellite Down the USN had basically no active ships by early 2001 operating on the West Coast is one of the most unbelievable aspects of the whole canon

along with how the battle with the USS Virginia and her destroyer escorts against the five Soviet DD's went down - including the fact that Virginia is in a desperate battle but still has operational Harpoons and one Tomahawk on board in 2001- meaning she is fighting for her life and outnumbered but didnt fire them during the battle? So she let five Soviet ships get close enough for a gun battle and didnt expend all her missiles first?

and per the canon she has an operational missile launcher left - so this isnt a situation where the Soviets got lucky and took out her missile launchers and the magazines held missiles she couldnt fire

let alone the Soviet fleet's only allies in the Pacific are the North Koreans and Vietnamese and somehow they took out the USN, the Chinese, the South Korean Navy, etc.. to the point they could still send six destroyers to the Mexican coast for the battle against the Virginia and there was nothing left to reinforce Virginia or still operational after it?

Or the real humdinger - that the Soviets somehow established air and naval supremacy long enough to transport multiple divisions including mech infantry divisions not only to Alaska but landing on the western coast of Canada?

And I dont see the USN having the whole Pacific Fleet sitting in Honolulu when it got nuked or a huge proportion of it either to where the Soviets could get what you would need to successfully transport those troops to the US and Canada
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Old 01-10-2018, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olefin View Post
Or the real humdinger - that the Soviets somehow established air and naval supremacy long enough to transport multiple divisions including mech infantry divisions not only to Alaska but landing on the western coast of Canada?
I'd forgotten to account for that in my outline. Thanks for reminding me.
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