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Old 07-23-2018, 10:06 AM
Olefin Olefin is offline
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Default Colorado Springs survival after 1 megaton attack

Been thinking about one of the big mysteries in the game which is how did Colorado Springs - and more importantly the Air Force Academy and Fort Carson - survive the 1 megaton attack on Cheyenne Mountain - given their proximity if it had been a ground pounder or even an airburst the chances of them making it thru the attack is minimal - yet the canon states that Air Force cadets after the attack survived to form the Cadet Brigade and drew equipment form stocks left over at Fort Carson

Meaning that both the Academy and the Fort had to make it thru the attack and not be irradiated wastelands (i.e. you dont live long using radioactive equipment)

Now the Academy is far enough away that most likely it would have made it - but Fort Carson is definitely going to take one heck of a lot of damage (if not be a complete write off) from a ground pounder that close of that magnitude - and there wont be much left of anything in the south and center of Colorado Springs

The more you look at it there would only be three possible ways that Carson and Colorado Springs are still there

the bomb is a fizzle and you are looking at a detonation that is more like Hiroshima than a 1 megaton bomb - which is bad but leaves both areas intact

the incoming warhead gets taken out by SAM's and salvage detonates so far up that the effect on the ground is minimal but the EMP damage is major - i.e. Cheyenne Mountain gets a lot of equipment fried and goes dark for quite a while

or the attack isnt meant to take out Cheyenne at all - but instead is a classic EMP attack only - meant to take out the electronics of not only it but a large part of Colorado and neighboring areas

Love to hear you opinions

FYI ran multiple scenarios using nukemap using various "fizzle" scenarios - and almost any ground pounder leaves so much radiation that any attempt by the Cadets to get to Carson is going to mean they get pretty bad radiation poisoning for quite some time - even with a small yield

However a huge airburst because the bomb goes off too high either due to faulty fuzing or a SAM hit - i.e. 40,000 feet or higher - still leaves Fort Carson intact - and definitely would generate one hell of an EMP pulse that would probably take Cheyenne's computers and electrical equipment off line for sure

Last edited by Olefin; 07-23-2018 at 11:02 AM.
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Old 07-23-2018, 11:07 AM
Olefin Olefin is offline
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FYI - the key is that the Cadets draw equipment from Fort Carson - and it doesnt say "after 2-3 years waiting for the radiation background level to decrease to acceptable levels" or anything like that - that implies Carson is intact (or relatively so) and that the equipment is usable or can have the radiation cleaned off - which means you need uncontaminated water and cleaning supplies and lots of it to get any fallout off the CARC painted exteriors of the vehicles - and that they didnt burn up from the thermal pulse that would have hit the Fort for sure if a one megaton bomb had hit Cheyenne Mountain dead on
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Old 07-23-2018, 02:20 PM
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I'm not looking at a map, ATM, but couldn't intervening mountains shield relatively nearby areas from the blast and thermal radiation effects of a ground-burst? Also, with mountain effect weather effects, radioactive material ejected by the explosion could essentially get trapped on one side of a high mountain range. Neither of these are perfect explanations, but they might be plausible/workable.
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Old 07-23-2018, 03:48 PM
Olefin Olefin is offline
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I'm not looking at a map, ATM, but couldn't intervening mountains shield relatively nearby areas from the blast and thermal radiation effects of a ground-burst? Also, with mountain effect weather effects, radioactive material ejected by the explosion could essentially get trapped on one side of a high mountain range. Neither of these are perfect explanations, but they might be plausible/workable.
That might make sense if Fort Carson was a lot further away - but it isnt - and also there is no intervening mountains - if you hit Cheyenne Mountain dead on then you hit Carson - and all it takes is about five minutes to look at a topographical map to see that

The 3rd degree burn radius covers the entire area of Fort Carson as does the radiation - and given the prevailing winds they are going to get one heck of a dusting

as I have said there are places that canon needs to be rewritten in order to have it make sense - this isnt a drought we are talking about - this is the law of physics and radioactive fallout patterns - oh and keep in mind that the whole area around Cheyenne is heavily wooded - so you are going to have huge amounts of smoke and debris - all massively contaminated - blowing all over Fort Carson

and thats if the nuke hits the top of the mountain - move it to the more likely location which is closer to Fort Carson and things get a lot worse - FYI the Academy is far enough away its probably intact without any issues so the actual personnel of the Cadet Brigade are alive no matter what - but I dont see them getting much out of Carson - and either way Colorado Springs - the city itself - is basically going to be irradiated ruins
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Old 07-23-2018, 11:01 PM
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Also keep in mind it didn't have to be just one warhead, just add up to about that much. Could have been smaller strikes in the nearby areas designed to take out the support for the base and render the area uninhabitable for a while. One warhead could have been targeted at the front door to prevent those inside getting out (perhaps the hope was their communications would be cut off and they'd eventually starve to death or die from radiation when they were forced to come out - does away with the need for a massive bunker buster).
We also know radiation half life was radically reduced for the game so that the entire planet wouldn't become just one radioactive wasteland.
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Old 07-23-2018, 11:13 PM
Olefin Olefin is offline
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Also keep in mind it didn't have to be just one warhead, just add up to about that much. Could have been smaller strikes in the nearby areas designed to take out the support for the base and render the area uninhabitable for a while. One warhead could have been targeted at the front door to prevent those inside getting out (perhaps the hope was their communications would be cut off and they'd eventually starve to death or die from radiation when they were forced to come out - does away with the need for a massive bunker buster).
We also know radiation half life was radically reduced for the game so that the entire planet wouldn't become just one radioactive wasteland.
and that may explain both how Carson survived and the city - especially if you had warheads that didnt go off because one warhead took out another either due to blast effects or being spaced too close in distance and time
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Old 07-24-2018, 07:19 AM
Olefin Olefin is offline
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See Legbreaker and I can actually agree from time to time
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Old 07-24-2018, 09:53 PM
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See Legbreaker and I can actually agree from time to time
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Old 07-25-2018, 11:16 AM
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lol - ok that has to go on The Real World on FB
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