|
#1
|
|||||||
|
|||||||
First of all I agree with everything that Legbreaker has said in this thread.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Finally, the last time Australia really made a push to acquire nukes was when it was a partner in the Blue Streak missile program from the mid 1950s through to the 60s. The only reason that Australia invested in the program was because we had an understanding with the British that they would sell us nukes to put in the Blue Streak. Those hopes ended when the US pressured the British not to give Australia nuclear weapons technology because the US considered Australia to have too much of a leftist streak and thought we would be an intelligence risk. Since then Australia has made no official attempts to gain nukes and in fact has been very anti-nuclear (that feeling ebbs and flows depending on who is in government). Here is a link to Wiki's take on Australia's WMD history. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austral...ss_destruction
__________________
"It is better to be feared than loved" - Nicolo Machiavelli Last edited by Targan; 08-27-2009 at 12:14 AM. |
#2
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Quote:
Still, I cannot imagine there not being a pro-nuke power faction in Australia after the Twilight War. France might come to Australia and offers to buy their uranium (since France is heavily favoring nuclear power), especially since many of the other sources of Uranium are going to be a mess. The French could easily exchange oil from the Middle East for uranium. In the canon they are sitting on Kuwait. In my version, the US CENTCOM is in Kuwait and the French are in Saudi Arabia. Following France's example, certain Australian interests might press for the creation of a nuclear power station or stations... but I expect that would be a project that wouldn't see fruition the 2010s. So, it wouldn't really affect Australia's situation at the turn of the Millenium. Quote:
So, how much of this help would be in the form of Naval and Air Forces and how much Army forces do you think New Zealand could spare? I'm thinking given the conditions of the Twilight War, even New Zealand would have conscription. But do the conscripts serve at home keeping the country together, or are they send to fight in the Indonesian War? Personally, I think it would be better for morale and maintaining discipline if the conscripts were kept closer to home and the volunteer (and therefore more professional) forces were used to support Australia. Quote:
If the apartheid government hangs on too long, the country goes down in a race war that leaves it as wrecked and ruined as the rest of the African continent. White refugees get on the last boats out and try and make it to Australia. I guess the question is, which scenario is more interesting? I think I like South Africa holding on as a real, functional, post-apartheid republic, that is holding the line against the tide of barbarism spreading out of central Africa. A. Scott Glancy, President TCCorp, dba Pagan Publishing |
#3
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Sadly New Zealand no longer has a combat air force IRL. It still has its Skyhawks in mothballs after a deal to sell them was suspended for reasons that have not been made public (there is another thread on these forums in which that was discussed). If the Cold War had not ended it is not inconceivable that New Zealand might have gone through with a plan that was put forward during the early 90s to lease F-16s from the US. The RNZAF's operations in the Twilight War would mostly involve moving troops and, equipment and supplies around. New Zealand has a pitiful navy and its two ANZAC class frigates were commissioned in 1997 and 1999 IRL. Perhaps Australia and New Zealand might have produced more ANZAC class frigates and commissioned them sooner if the Cold War had not ended. New Zealand's main military assistance to Australia would be through the Army, especially special forces. The Australian and New Zealand SAS train and operate together very regularly and I think they are universally regarded as being highly effective (though few in number). New Zealand currently operates LAV IIIs IRL so it is possible that during the Twilight War they might deploy mechanised infantry forces equipped with LAV-25s/ASLAVs alongside Australian Army forces. And of course standard infantry and M-113s.
__________________
"It is better to be feared than loved" - Nicolo Machiavelli Last edited by Targan; 08-27-2009 at 12:35 AM. |
#4
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
In the initial stages, only fuel will be much of a problem. The vast majority of energy in Australia is from Coal and hydro (especially the latter in Tasmania). Wind is also seeing a bit of growth. The last federal government were toyng with the idea of building nuclear power plants (in around 2005-6 I think it was) but before then there was deafening silence on the topic. Resistance to the idea when it was raised was immense. Given the virtually nonexistant reliance on oil for electricity production, brownouts are only likely as a byproduct of transportation difficulties and EMP. Quote:
Some oil might be bought from the middle east through the French, but it would be done with great resistance. Not many would like the idea of buying from what is essentially an occupying power... Quote:
The above link isn't all that far from reality. NZ hasn't got much of an airforce any more and the Navy I believe isn't much better. For armoured vehicles, the last I heard was they had nothing heavier than Scorpion and Scimitars.
__________________
If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives. Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect" Mors ante pudorem |
#5
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
I think that from late in the Twilight War onwards Australia, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea and a bunch of Pacific islands would form an antipodean version of the EU.
__________________
"It is better to be feared than loved" - Nicolo Machiavelli |
#6
|
||||
|
||||
__________________
If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives. Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect" Mors ante pudorem |
#7
|
||||
|
||||
Darn it. Its hard to pretend that I'm pissed off when I'm laughing.
__________________
"It is better to be feared than loved" - Nicolo Machiavelli |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
In my games I have South Africa on NATO side fighting all over Africa.
__________________
"There is only one tactical principal which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wounds, death and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time." --General George S. Patton, Jr. |
#9
|
||||
|
||||
This is so obvious to me that it is my final choice in any case and timeline. As you said Targan, I can't imagine Australia and New Zealand turning away from each other. But you know that already.
|
#10
|
||||
|
||||
Tell us more Dog 6..
Is it a post Apartheid state or a South Africa that still practices Apartheid? How widespread are South Africa's forces? Are they agents of stability or are they just fighting it out with the local Soviet proxies? Anyone else have a preference here? A barely functioning post Apartheid South Africa, probably lead by Nelson Mandela... the one guy the blacks would support and who wouldn't indulge in bloody revenge on the whites... This state would be besieged by armies of refugees and marauders pouring into the relative stability of South Africa, overrunning farms and looting communities. ...or a besieged apartheid South Africa, probably led by F.W. de Klerk, or a more reactionary Afrikaner President elected during the 1994 presidential race. This state would be besieged from within and without, fighting a very ugly race war. This war would turn much of South Africa into a war zone, and it would therefore be less attractive to refugees seeking safety. But perhaps foreign marauders would enter the country claiming to be there to liberate the place from "White Colonialism," only to loot and pillage any ethnic group that has something they want. This "race-war" South Africa is going to be a place of bloody absolutes and total war against civilians and soldiers. Which one would make for a more likely scenario? And which one would make for a more interesting role-playing environment for your players? A. Scott Glancy, President TCCorp, dba Pagan Publishing |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
BTW we play Battalions and up, mostly division's.
__________________
"There is only one tactical principal which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wounds, death and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time." --General George S. Patton, Jr. |
#12
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Personally I think the most likely scenario would probably be the first one, with Mandela elected in 1994 as he was in real life. I do wonder, though, whether even if you go with option one South Africa would have remained intact and stable as a country following the world wide chaos of a Twilight War or whether it would have fragmented into a number of different mini States, probably based along tribal lines? This might give the opportunity for a role play environment similar to that outlined in option two (which does strike me as the more interetsing of the two)? Cheers
__________________
Author of the unofficial and strictly non canon Alternative Survivor’s Guide to the United Kingdom |
#13
|
||||
|
||||
I think that you are all right but I chose the exact opposite with South Africa remaining under a revived Apartheid.
In 1993, Chris Hani (an anti-apartheid activist) is assassinated (that failed in real life) by a Polish immigrant. The murderer is found dead and the investigation is slow. As a result, riots are taking place in various districts. Mandela and the ANC fail to take control of the uprising and several white people are killed in the following weaks. As a result, the white/coloured minority starts to worry and de Klerk is forced to resign from the party. He is, then, replaced by Ferdinand Hartzenberg, a conservative. Later, the ANC is banned again, Mandela is send back to jail and dies, while the parliament change the law again and call for the 1994 election to be cancelled. Of course, the result is growing chaos but basically, South Africa is left alone. The Western world is more concern about the Russian coup and the soviets don't get involved except for a renewed support to several of South Africa's neighbours. In addition, South Africa retain control of Walvis Bay. When tensions start to really grow and war is on sight, NATO declares that it has no reason to get involved in South African's internal affairs. In return, it gets a fair access to the South African ressource market. Surprisingly, despite this, the country is never targeted by the Warsaw Pact. Of course, internal tensions goes from riots to unrest to local uprising to full civil war but the various ethnic groups fail to unite and the government is able to play on these tensions. At last, while everyone else is engaged in the Twilight War, Hartzenberg's government meet the revolt with full military force, eventually dropping a few nukes on the few neighbour state providing what little support they can to the insurgents. |
#14
|
||||
|
||||
__________________
"It is better to be feared than loved" - Nicolo Machiavelli |
#15
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Hani Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constand_Viljoen As a point of divergence I'd suggest the possibility of white extremists assasinating Viljoen, but successfully managing to put the blame on the ANC in the process. In my opinion that could well have blown apart the 1994 elections and led to a very, very nasty racially motivated Civil War. A white victory in that War would probably have taken South Africa back to the worst days of apartheid. I totally agree that with War on the horizon, NATO would not have interfered in South African internal politics, particularly if given preferential access to South Africa's natural resources. Cheers Dave
__________________
Author of the unofficial and strictly non canon Alternative Survivor’s Guide to the United Kingdom |
#16
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Sorry, I must have got tired. I didn't know of the Volksfront, however. Thanks for the information on that. My purpose, then, is to keep South Africa out of the war and bring more chaos to it. |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|
|