Military Intelligence Units

[kalos72]

Ok so call me stupid but I just cant seem to get my head around all the acronyms. Can someone give me a break down of the different parts of a MI Battalion/Company PLEASE? Whats they do, how they do it and what tools they use...

And perhaps personal positions on how MI units would work in a T2k setting..

[chico20854]

The organization depends on the size of the unit it is assigned to. A division had a MI battalion assigned. Wiki has a good description of a divisional battalion in the 90s at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/140th_M...United_States) . That's for a heavy division, a light division's bn was organized similarly, but with HMMWVs instead of M-113 series vehicles. An alternative organization, adopted later in the 90s, is for a HQ company, three direct support companies, each organized with an I&S, C&J and EW platoon (each assigned to one of the division's combat brigades), a general support company (a larger version of the direct support company that supported the division commander) and the LRSD. The MI company assigned to an independent bde or regiment was more or less like one of the direct support companies.

At Corps and higher levels I'm not as sure. Each corps had a LRS company assigned, and you also start adding other assets, like fixed-wing surveillence aircraft (Mohawks, C-12s and the like, not U-2s!).

As for what they would be doing in T2k, a few ideas. The primary mission is to provide the unit commander information about what the enemy is able and possibly even likely to do. The LRSDs and GSRs go fairly deep behind enemy lines - 30-50km or so - and call in air strikes and MLRS, ATACMS and artilery strikes and feed info about approaching enemy units. The EW units try to locate enemy HQs, artillery batteries and the like by locating their radios, while the C&J (collection & jamming) guys try to listen in and/or jam enemy radio nets. The I&S guys have 2 roles - the GSR (Ground Surveillence Radar) guys are behind the lines doing the same thing as the LRSDs, while the CI (Counterintel) guys are interrogating prisoners of war and possibly coordinating with the MPs about folks wandering around the division area. That's about it at the division level. At the Corps and higher level, the missions are about the same, but they're looking deeper behind enemy lines. There are also detachments that coordinate, share and analyse the data to feed into commander's G/J/S-2 staffs. All in all, not the sort of sinister, James-Bond operations (or the oxymoron) that pop into most people's minds when "Army Intelligence" is mentioned...

[kalos72]

Great link...that helps alot actually.

One thing that concerns me, not many units would still be able to use much in the way of long range comms so all the electronic surveillance and detection and such would be pretty wasted no? Especially against roaming marauders and such.

[chico20854]

Originally Posted by kalos72

Great link...that helps alot actually.

One thing that concerns me, not many units would still be able to use much in the way of long range comms so all the electronic surveillance and detection and such would be pretty wasted no? Especially against roaming marauders and such.

Well, keep in mind a few things:

1) A divisional EW unit is oriented towards gathering information that concerns the division - probably not too far behind the lines, so not really that long-range. And with the overall decline in comms, those that still have some to use must be pretty important, and are probably worth monitoring. In addition, I would think that with the breakdown in Soviet C3I after the exchange, Soviet use of encryption and code might not be as common (sophisticated crypto gear breaks down, updated codebooks are impossible to distribute from Moscow) and among marauders nonexistent, leading to a relatively high payoff from continued monitoring.

2) The electronic surveillance, intercept and jamming assets, if they physically survived the 1997 campaign (did the Russians shell or fire "home on jam" missiles at jammers? Who knows!), are likely not to still be functioning in great numbers by 2000.

3) There is an ongoing need in 2000 for farmers, guards, infantrymen, laborers and so on, so the specialized MI troops will certainly be employed for something

[Abbott Shaull]

You would be surprise how many troops were reclassified as Infantry.

[kalos72]

I can DEFINITELY see a reclassification to Infantry for many of those style unitsd. But what, if anything from a 'average' MI battalion would still be useful?

[kato13]

This is from Greabeard's 5th Infantry reorganization document. (I will be posting the full version shortly)



Intelligence

105th CEWI Battalion still had its original mission, but due to lack of electronic replacements was greatly hindered, yet they managed to do the best they could with what they had. One unit of the battalion was largely unaffected by the reorganization, except to increase in size and importance. This was E Company (Long Range Surveillance), which is stripped from the MI battalion and allocated to the cavalry squadron. The GSR’s that remained in service were farmed out to the forward outposts along lines of likely approach.

105th CEWI Battalion [180]
Headquarters 15
EW technicians 35 (8x four-man teams jammers, listeners, etc)
GSR units 25 (6x four-man GSR teams)
Counter Intelligence 25 (12x two-man teams)
Security Intelligence 25 (6x four-man teams)
Intelligence Analysts 35
Special Operations 20 (4x six-man teams)

[kalos72]

Would an LRSD Detachment still be part of the MI unit though or would it be back at the division/squadron level? This seems like one of the only type of unit that would be, for the most, left the same.

And would they be called a "LRSD" Platoon - Company - Squadron - Regiment?

Ok confused now, WIKI for the 3rd ACR ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3d_Armo...ited_States%29 ) shows the squadrons had scout platoons, are they the same thing as a recon platoon or LRSD?

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by kalos72

Would an LRSD Detachment still be part of the MI unit though or would it be back at the division/squadron level? This seems like one of the only type of unit that would be, for the most, left the same.

And would they be called a "LRSD" Platoon - Company - Squadron - Regiment?

The D in LRSD is for Detachment, so it doesn't need another unit size. IMO, it needs to stay assigned to the MI battalion, they report directly to the division S-2, and I can't believe (s)he's going to give up the one non-electronic asset in the battalion!

Ok confused now, WIKI for the 3rd ACR ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3d_Armo...ited_States%29 ) shows the squadrons had scout platoons, are they the same thing as a recon platoon or LRSD?

Running this off the top of my head, and referring strictly to US Army:
- The LRSD belongs to the division's intel battalion, and its intelligence officer. They are supposed to operate deep, and have a high proportion of Ranger-qualified soldiers. I believe corps and army-level MI units would have more of the same.
- Since one of the armored cavalry regiment's key jobs is to scout for the corps commander, some of its platoons are labelled as scout units. They are essentially reduced mech-infantry platoons, using cavalry fighting vehicles, and the dismounts are rated as cavalry scouts. The scouts in a heavy division's armored cavalry squadron would be organized similarly, with the same job.
- FWIW, a line battalion would have its own recon platoon, usually vehicle mounted, to do the recon work for the battalion commander and S-2.
The real difference is in deployment. The LRSD guys would be dropped by chopper and sneak around the enemy's rear area for several nights, looking for things. They are the descendants of Vietnam's LRRPs, who would run week-long missions hunting for the enemy. In T2k, I'd suspect the LRSD is horse-mounted, and/or its scouts spend time in civilian clothes, trying to blend in with the locals. Pretty much what most PC bands do, really.

[kalos72]

That got it...now I understand the difference. Thanks.

And SIGNIT are mostly communications, send/receive/monitor/jam and such or is the CEWI? lol

Perhaps just a simple list of each of the silly acronyms and a brief description. let me check out wiki...

[Abbott Shaull]

For what it worth the LRRP/Ranger units at Divisional Level during Vietnam war were Company size units. I believe even at Corps Level they had Company size element.

Now in T2K terms... Would just go with Detachment that could be as small as couple six man teams on up.....