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Old 10-24-2010, 04:13 PM
Ironside Ironside is offline
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Default British Army Equipment in the Later Twilight War

I am working on expanding information on the British Army and this is a first draft of a part of it. I would be grateful for any comments or criticisms anyone cares to leave.

British Army Equipment in the Later Twilight War

The British Army has never been a particularly visible part of British society, outside of garrison towns, except during a major war; so many minor wars and actions have taken place that there is no authoritative list of them. During ‘peacetime’, e.g. when military actions and casualties are not front page news, equipment for the army is not a priority. The British Army has learned therefore to avoid throwing anything away if they can possibly help it. Obsolete or surplus equipment can be found squirreled away in obscure stores and depots which proved a great boon to the British Army during the Twilight War.

Artillery is a huge consumer of ammunition; no commander in modern history has ever had enough smoke for instance. When the 155mm ammunition began to run short old 5.5” guns were taken from storage and the School of Artillery Trials Unit to make use of the large stocks of 5.5” ammunition remaining in storage. The 51mm mortar L10 was designed from the outset to be able to use the extensive stocks of 2" mortar ammunition.

Although MBTs became rarer on the battlefield, anti-tank capability was still most important. As the supply of MILAN missiles dwindled the BAT Wombat L6 returned to the fray. Likewise, instead of the LAW 80, the 84mm ‘Carl Gustav’ was brought back into service; to the severe disgruntlement of those tasked with carrying it’s 14.2kg empty weight!

The armoured units would have been in direr straits without the Chieftains of the war reserve; some of them with the Chieftain/Challenger Rearmament programme, some without. Even the remaining 1950’s vintage Saracen and Saladin armoured cars were used to great effect.

Ironside
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Old 10-24-2010, 07:11 PM
dragoon500ly dragoon500ly is offline
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Looks good so far, and I'm looking forward to further posts!

Its always funny how much "older" equipment remains stashed away in warehouses and depots. I can name several posts in the US that still had stockpiles of M-1 Garands and BARS, still in the original crates, and still waiting to be issued.
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Old 10-24-2010, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by dragoon500ly View Post
Looks good so far, and I'm looking forward to further posts!

Its always funny how much "older" equipment remains stashed away in warehouses and depots. I can name several posts in the US that still had stockpiles of M-1 Garands and BARS, still in the original crates, and still waiting to be issued.
Lee,

A friend said he saw thousands of US-made FN-FALs (built as the T47) in storage back in the 90's. However, I seem to recall at that point when bases were closed and facilities reorganised a lot of the old gear was disposed of. Another friend who had been a guerrilla in Africa said M14 rifles started arriving in bulk at that time via clandestine aid and the black market and were much preferred over the Kalashnikovs. The former were well-maintained and well-made, while the latter were the worn-out dregs from Central and Eastern European arsenals.

That said, the massive base-closures and disposal happened in response to the end of the Cold War and largely formed part of the "peace dividend". As T2K is an alternative timeline, it's quite possible this course wasn't taken and all or most of the old ordnance is still around!

Tony

Last edited by helbent4; 10-24-2010 at 08:07 PM.
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Old 10-24-2010, 09:19 PM
Adm.Lee Adm.Lee is offline
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Originally Posted by dragoon500ly View Post
Looks good so far, and I'm looking forward to further posts!

Its always funny how much "older" equipment remains stashed away in warehouses and depots. I can name several posts in the US that still had stockpiles of M-1 Garands and BARS, still in the original crates, and still waiting to be issued.
Heh. I read of a pre-WW2 US infantryman who was at Fortress Monroe (or some other Virginia-area coastal fort). While renovating or remodeling some part of the fort, they broke through a stone or cemented wall to find several cases of factory-fresh Civil War-era rifled muskets, still in preservative grease. The author was still pissed that he couldn't keep one, but they were sold to the officers instead.
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Old 10-24-2010, 09:35 PM
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StainlessSteelCynic StainlessSteelCynic is offline
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I wouldn't be surprised to see the British 25-pounder field gun recalled to service either because I think the British were still producing ammunition into the 1980s for it to sell to former Commonwealth countries that still used it as their main artillery.

Given the situation in Northern Ireland at the time, the British Army apparently had a very large fleet of Saracen APCs but there are other vehicles that would probably have been still in use even though they were discontinued in the real world such as the Fox armoured car (withdrawn from service in 1994 I think)

As for war stores, I would suspect that there would be huge stocks of L1A1s, Sterlings and 7.62mm Brens along with lesser stocks of SMLEs, Stens and Vickers Guns. By way of an example, here in Australia the army was disposing of war-stored SMLE rifles as late as 1991 or 92 in Western Australia (I don't know about the other states).
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Old 10-24-2010, 09:48 PM
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There was, and to my knowledge still is, a large warehouse of SMLE rifles stored up near the Queensland/NSW border. I can't say for sure, but I would guess that there are/were Brens, Vickers, Owens, Austens, etc to be found there too.
Our Company armoury even had an old Martini Henry rifle which got pulled out and put on display every year for the Company ball.
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Old 10-24-2010, 10:45 PM
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Leg,

For that matter, a friend of mine related how when they were clearing out some basement rooms at a militia armoury here in Vancouver they found uniforms and kit dating back to WWII.

A different friend said his reserve unit saved weapons that had been written off or otherwise forgotten. Like FN C1A1s and C2A1s that had been rebuilt, 81mm mortars that were forgotten when the regiment (the Seaforth's) got rid of it's mortar platoon, C6 GPMGs and C9 SAWs that had been declared inoperative but rebuilt over time by bored armourers.

For that matter, the cadets apparently use FNs (C1A1s) and SMLEs chambered for .22 ammunition, and the Northern Rangers certainly use the SMLE through the north.

Tony
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Old 10-25-2010, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragoon500ly View Post
Looks good so far, and I'm looking forward to further posts!

Its always funny how much "older" equipment remains stashed away in warehouses and depots. I can name several posts in the US that still had stockpiles of M-1 Garands and BARS, still in the original crates, and still waiting to be issued.
Funny my shitbird doesn't belive me when I told him that Force Recon still had usable High Standard Supressed pistols in their inventories as late as 1997.

According to him he had worked with recon and all they used were M16s and Beretta M9s.

Even though i found the High Standard to be front heavy it pointed well and I wouldn't want to be a local jack rabbit.


As far as British Equipment goes I would not be very suprised if they were not improvising various munitions. heck you would probably see the few Omani vetrans left acting as senior advisors to the home guard and distributing such nice info as how to use a cup of gasoline to get longer range out of a mortar without blowing the tube.
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Old 10-25-2010, 05:29 PM
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Not sure if that would do much for the range tables - hard to hit a target with an indirect weapon if you don't have the maths ready...
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Old 10-25-2010, 09:37 PM
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Not sure if that would do much for the range tables - hard to hit a target with an indirect weapon if you don't have the maths ready...
Well IRL since the British Troops fighting in Oman durring the late 1960~1970s were not officially at war they were not sent the last two propellant bands that the mortars they were using needed to get the maximum effective range. So the Brits improvized by poring gasoline down the mortar barrel to give the round an extra kick. Now such acts are very dangerous especially when you have friendly troops assaulting the target of the mortar.
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Old 10-25-2010, 10:00 PM
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It'd certainly work for increased range, but accuracy must have STUNK!
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