Using a person as cover/armor

[General Pain]

Anyone ever used or wanted to do this in a fire fight?

rules*????

AV1 or AV2----or based upon kg????


(classic General Pain question)

[headquarters]

I would say that it depends on mass of POI ,clothing etc etc .

Generally I would say AV 1 in game-terms - meaning that it will stunt a rifle bullet , but stop common handgun calibers like .22, 9 mm or .45 etc .

To make it fast and playable .

But in some cases the body will be hit in an extremity that offer less protection or the body is for instance stout leading to a change up or down in AV value.

I read the book "The Somme" not long ago - it had plenty of gruesome depictions of men trying to barricade the trenches with the fallen to get some cover at least .

All in all war is ghastly business - and the General will make it more so -no doubt .

[General Pain]

Originally Posted by headquarters

I would say that it depends on mass of POI ,clothing etc etc .

Generally I would say AV 1 in game-terms - meaning that it will stunt a rifle bullet , but stop common handgun calibers like .22, 9 mm or .45 etc .

To make it fast and playable .

But in some cases the body will be hit in an extremity that offer less protection or the body is for instance stout leading to a change up or down in AV value.

I read the book "The Somme" not long ago - it had plenty of gruesome depictions of men trying to barricade the trenches with the fallen to get some cover at least .

All in all war is ghastly business - and the General will make it more so -no doubt .

I blame society,drugs and a weird sense of humor

[General Pain]

don't forget penalties

movement rate
agility checks
etc

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by General Pain

I blame society,drugs and a weird sense of humor

I aquit society ,but find drugs and the weird sense of humor guilty.

Society - you are free to go .

[pmulcahy11b]

Damn, I had what I think was a good answer to this, but I hit the wrong button...let me try again.

If you're behind someone's body, use the hit point value of that body part as if the dead guy's unwounded. The body absorbs that many hits -- and the rest go on to you. You can divide that by 3.5 (the average of 1 and 6) to determine how many D6 you receive.

BTW, I have the glimmer of an idea of how to possibly handle body armor and equipment someone is carrying a bit better. There are far more grades of body armor that can be accounted for in T2K rules. So, I though, how about giving types of body armor a fractional multiplier. A standard PASGT helmet, for example, might have a value of 0.6 -- which means that the damage that goes on to you is multiplied by 0.4 (your character receives 40% of the damage). But the problem I'm having is when you get into items like ballistic plates or handgun rounds where the round could be stopped dead in its tracks, and the victim receives little blunt trauma. An then you have to account for the penetrative ability of different rounds, which would move the multiplier up or down -- and I end up with what sounds like a fundamental change in the combat rules. That's when blood vessels in my head start exploding. Anyway, it's just a glimmer of an idea right now.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by headquarters

I aquit society ,but find drugs and the weird sense of humor guilty.

Society - you are free to go .

Sorry, I find the opposite. Society is what causes a weird sense of humor and in some people, the wish to drown their sorrows in booze or drugs. Society, you are guilty as charged.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

If you're behind someone's body, use the hit point value of that body part as if the dead guy's unwounded. The body absorbs that many hits -- and the rest go on to you. You can divide that by 3.5 (the average of 1 and 6) to determine how many D6 you receive.

BTW, I have the glimmer of an idea of how to possibly handle body armor and equipment someone is carrying a bit better. There are far more grades of body armor that can be accounted for in T2K rules. So, I though, how about giving types of body armor a fractional multiplier. A standard PASGT helmet, for example, might have a value of 0.6 -- which means that the damage that goes on to you is multiplied by 0.4 (your character receives 40% of the damage). But the problem I'm having is when you get into items like ballistic plates or handgun rounds where the round could be stopped dead in its tracks, and the victim receives little blunt trauma. An then you have to account for the penetrative ability of different rounds, which would move the multiplier up or down -- and I end up with what sounds like a fundamental change in the combat rules. That's when blood vessels in my head start exploding. Anyway, it's just a glimmer of an idea right now.

Gunmaster deals with all of these things very well, including the blunt trauma passed on to the body when armour stops rounds entirely. In Gunmaster damage comes in 7 different classes (Blunt, Edged, Piercing, Ballistic (which is actually a sub-class of piercing), Fire/Frost, Squeeze and Tear). Every different type of armour/cover has different values for each of those damage clases.

[General Pain]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Sorry, I find the opposite. Society is what causes a weird sense of humor and in some people, the wish to drown their sorrows in booze or drugs. Society, you are guilty as charged.

seconded

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by General Pain

seconded

away to your cell!

[copeab]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

BTW, I have the glimmer of an idea of how to possibly handle body armor and equipment someone is carrying a bit better. There are far more grades of body armor that can be accounted for in T2K rules. So, I though, how about giving types of body armor a fractional multiplier. A standard PASGT helmet, for example, might have a value of 0.6 -- which means that the damage that goes on to you is multiplied by 0.4 (your character receives 40% of the damage). But the problem I'm having is when you get into items like ballistic plates or handgun rounds where the round could be stopped dead in its tracks, and the victim receives little blunt trauma. An then you have to account for the penetrative ability of different rounds, which would move the multiplier up or down -- and I end up with what sounds like a fundamental change in the combat rules. That's when blood vessels in my head start exploding. Anyway, it's just a glimmer of an idea right now.

GURPS and several other systems use fixed armor numbers (say, 8-12 for flexible armor and 30-40 for trauma plates). Against Kevlar, for any die that comes up 5 or 6 (GURPS uses d6) one point of blunt trauma gets through, unless the shot actually penetrates.