Was III Corps supposed to stay behind during Omega?

[Olefin]

An interesting question and not sure if its been debated here before - did anyone notice this in Going Home? Its on page 24 of the module

BETWEEN FRANKFURT-AM-MAIN AND WURZBURG

At the beginning of the adventure, the 2/2nd US Armored Division,
and elements of the 44th US Armored Division are moving
towards Bremerhaven to participate in the evacuation, even
though the order did not apply to them.

Does this mean that the Omega evacuation originally wasnt supposed to include the US III Corps?

If you look of the four units making it up 1st US Cavalry Division decided to stay in Germany as did the 3rd ACR and the HQ (with the exception of 600 men and 5 AFV's) but then it implies they disobeyed orders to do so.

However you then have the above entry on page 24.

If the III Corps was orginally meant to stay behind it does change the idea of Omega somewhat - i.e. from an abandon ship type evacuation where MilGov basically pulls out of Europe to possibly more of a strategic withdrawal of most forces but leaving at least one army behind (i.e. the III Corps and the XI Corps combined) to still have a say in the fighting and eventual outcome of the war

If so then did the pull out of the 2nd of the 2nd and the 44th against orders turn it into an "everyone to the boats" scenario and ruined that plan?

Or does it mean that the US 1st Cav Division and the III corps HQ were actually following orders when they didnt evacuate and thus are still under MilGov orders participating in what's left of the fighting there?

Has this been discussed before and I cant find it among the threads?

[RN7]

Welcome back Olefin.

Your right page 24 of Going Home does imply that III Corps or elements of it were not ordered to evacuate. Why this occurs I don't know but possibly for the reasons you stated and also to keep an eye on the CIVGOV forces in Yugoslavia.

Also the 30th brigade of the 44th US Armored Division is resident in the Bavarian village of Kahl-am-Main near the 1.7 Mw nuclear power VAK Project station. Going Home implies that it was not heavily damaged and could be easily recovered. Going Home also implies that the 30th brigades commander Major Kane knows about the VAK Project and has gone rogue and secretly plans to rule Bavaria after the war. In the 2300AD timeline Bavaria becomes and independent country and becomes the most technologicaly developed part of Germany. Maybe MILGOV knows what Kane is up to and wants to keep and eye on him and have a say in the future of Bavaria and Germany.

[Webstral]

The explanation I'm most partial to at the moment is bad copy editing. The Roman Catholic Church long ago made the decision to bind itself to everything in the Bible that survived Nicaea. I don't think we should put ourselves in the position of modern cardinals trying to explain how the source book is free of errors in the face of clear contradictions.

When I read the passage quoted regarding 2/2nd AD and 44th AD, what I read is a brain fart by the copy editor. The formations are defying orders like several others from III Corps. If one is blazing through the copy editing task to meet a deadline, then a sentence that has units of the corps defying orders makes sense. However, the idea of staying put to defy orders got mistranslated into moving to defy orders--possibly because the formations listed above are acting in defiance of the rest of the corps (which is itself defying orders).

The alternative is some mental gymnastics that will always have a problem. Either the corps was supposed to withdraw and units that stayed put are violating orders or the corps wasn't supposed to withdraw and the units moving to Bremerhaven disobeyed orders. Given the choice, I opt for the simplest explanation; i.e., the one given in Going Home. Everyone is supposed to rally at Bremerhaven and move back to the US. There's plenty of room for scheming and excitement between the American formations that can't get back to Bremerhaven and the ones that choose to stay put in defiance of orders without adding in shadowy motivations and orders that contravene the printed Operation Omega orders.

Good attention to detail in finding the conflict, Olefin.

[Raellus]

It could just be a matter of the local commander's response to the evac order (or lack thereof). The evac orders apparently didn't apply to every American unit in Germany/Austria/Poland.

XI Corps gets left behind. Canon doesn't give us a satisfactory answer for why they weren't included, but they weren't (there's some vague reference to them not being able to move in time which is odd considering their advanced proximinty to Bremerhaven). Other American units are cited in various sources as deciding to ignore the evac order and remain behind in Europe.

It stands to reason that the commander of a unit that was ommitted from the evac order (for whatever reason) could decide that he's taking his boys home anyways, and orders be damned.

Possible confusion in the copy room at GDW mimics the sort of confusion that would accompany such a huge troop movement in a new [old] era of much-reduced long-range communications and mobility, not to mention a bit of a breakdown in discipline and unit cohesion. Chalk it up to the fog of war, a rogue commander's impudent decision, some higher-up's master plan/conspiracy, or all of the above.

[Tegyrius]

Take it as deliberate ambiguity introduced into the text by an author who wanted to give individual readers a way to personalize their campaigns. Sometimes there is no right answer.

- C.

[Cdnwolf]

It was a communist ploy to confuse the Yankee Imperialist Dogs.

[rcaf_777]

It could be just a move to provide better security for the port, I mean your going to have alot activity going on and having units near might be a good idea.

[simonmark6]

Originally Posted by Tegyrius

Sometimes there is no right answer.

- C.

You mean that sometimes there is a right answer? I'm still looking for it

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Raellus

XI Corps gets left behind. Canon doesn't give us a satisfactory answer for why they weren't included, but they weren't (there's some vague reference to them not being able to move in time which is odd considering their advanced proximinty to Bremerhaven).

This has been heavily discussed previously. http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=354 is a good place to start.
In a nutshell, the XI were cut off by Pact units and geography. Distance in a straight line isn't all that much compared to some of the other formations, but without heavy engineering and amphibious resources, not to mention fuel, the XI simply can't get out of the corner they're backed in to.

Even if amphibious resources were available, there are simply NO suitable ports in their area of Poland. They would be forced to abandon all their heavy equipment (tanks, APCs, artillery, trucks, etc) which if it couldn't be destroyed would be very quickly picked up by the enemy. Even if it could be destroyed, without suitable ports, only small numbers could be taken off the beach at a time leaving the rest increasingly vulnerable to the enemy.

As for the III Corps, previous posters have covered most of the important points. The III Corps simply has a larger percentage of "rogue" units choosing to disobey orders than other Corps.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

This has been heavily discussed previously. http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=354 is a good place to start.
In a nutshell, the XI were cut off by Pact units and geography. Distance in a straight line isn't all that much compared to some of the other formations, but without heavy engineering and amphibious resources, not to mention fuel, the XI simply can't get out of the corner they're backed in to.

Even if amphibious resources were available, there are simply NO suitable ports in their area of Poland. They would be forced to abandon all their heavy equipment (tanks, APCs, artillery, trucks, etc) which if it couldn't be destroyed would be very quickly picked up by the enemy. Even if it could be destroyed, without suitable ports, only small numbers could be taken off the beach at a time leaving the rest increasingly vulnerable to the enemy.

Yes, I was in on that discussion from the get-go. For those who weren't, it should be pointed out that everything you posted above by way of explanation is pure conjecture, since canonical sources mentions none of it. That's not to say that it doesn't make a lot of sense, because it does, but we don't want to mislead anyone that it's official canon.

[Legbreaker]

While that is true, the discussions are firmly rooted in canon and we're yet to see an alternate explanation which is able to stand up to scrutiny anywhere near as well.

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by Raellus

It could just be a matter of the local commander's response to the evac order (or lack thereof). The evac orders apparently didn't apply to every American unit in Germany/Austria/Poland.

Possible confusion in the copy room at GDW mimics the sort of confusion that would accompany such a huge troop movement in a new [old] era of much-reduced long-range communications and mobility, not to mention a bit of a breakdown in discipline and unit cohesion. Chalk it up to the fog of war, a rogue commander's impudent decision, some higher-up's master plan/conspiracy, or all of the above.

I'd be more inclined to believe that III Corps' commanding general ordered everyone to stay put for reasons unknown, and those two formations' commanders said, "Screw that!"

[Olefin]

Lee I think you may have something there with what you posted (i.e. III corps commander ordered them to stay put) - possibly he made a deal with the Germans to keep his Corps there (especially if he knew the Cav and the 3rd ACR's intentions already)

Possibly he was thinking of having his whole Corps stay in Germany and never passed the order on the rest of his units (i.e. the 2nd of the 2nd and the 44th) figuring that once the ships were gone then they were stuck there - and then someone found out and they said as you eloquently put it "Screw that" and left without ever officially getting orders to move from Corps command.

I dont think it was an editing mistake but instead possibly there either as a sort of Easter Egg for GM's - i.e. possibly to stimulate thought about ways to turn Going Home along a different direction with rogue commanders keeping their units in Germany to continue their own private war with the Russians or even to suggest that maybe MilGov commanders were not in total agreement with the evacuation - or even as a plot point for possible conflict in the area of Bremerhaven that the PC's have to deal with (i.e. you get there and find that the 2nd and 44th have been refused passage home because its against orders for them to be going home and that fighting has broken out blocking the way between them and the ships)

i.e. per canon there is still room for them in the ships - but they have to find a way to get to those ships - sort of like the very first scenario but now instead of trying to escape thru the Russians to get out of the death of the 5th now they have to escape thru the death of the American war effort in Europe to get out of Europe

course it could just be an editing mistake after all - but an interesting one nonetheless