Sweden in T2K

[The Dark]

I think I found a decent piece of circumstantial evidence for v1. On the map from Going Home, in northeast France is a rubble marker labeled (LILLE). Rubble is either nuked or destroyed in conventional fighting (per the Referee's Manual), and there was no significant conventional fighting in France (their line on the Rhine would be well to the east of Lille). I don't remember France getting any mentions in v1 other than two sentences in the Referee's Manual and a tiny portion of the map in Going Home.

For v2.2, it's explicitly stated on page 226 that "France was still subjected to nuclear attacks...", so for that timeline, France was nuked unless the timeline from the core rules is tossed.

[RN7]

Originally Posted by The Dark

I think I found a decent piece of circumstantial evidence for v1. On the map from Going Home, in northeast France is a rubble marker labeled (LILLE). Rubble is either nuked or destroyed in conventional fighting (per the Referee's Manual), and there was no significant conventional fighting in France (their line on the Rhine would be well to the east of Lille). I don't remember France getting any mentions in v1 other than two sentences in the Referee's Manual and a tiny portion of the map in Going Home

I've seen that map and it also shows the Belgian towns of Antwerp and Ghent as ruined alongside Lille. Another map in Going Home also shows the German city of Hamburg in ruins, and we know from Going Home itself (page 21) that Hamburg wasn't subject to a nuclear attack as it was so heavily bombed beforehand that the Soviet spared it. From previous discussions about the map that shows Lille in ruins on other forums, the consensus was that Lille was targeted by vengeful German and Dutch bombing raids during and after the French occupation of the Rhineland.

Originally Posted by The Dark

For v2.2, it's explicitly stated on page 226 that "France was still subjected to nuclear attacks...", so for that timeline, France was nuked unless the timeline from the core rules is tossed.

If you want to go with V2 then France was hit by nuclear strikes and the country really isn't in very good shape which can be seen in the description of France on Page 225. If that is the case then the French will not be sending the FAR to the Middle East as they haven't the military ability to do so, and the French also have little or no influence in Africa or over their colonies around the world. I prefer V1

[Raellus]

I don't know for sure, but I don't think Farson's Finnish Sourcebook was published by FFE/GDW, at least not outside of Finland. Therefore, I don't think it's canon.

[kato13]

Originally Posted by The Dark

I think I found a decent piece of circumstantial evidence for v1. On the map from Going Home, in northeast France is a rubble marker labeled (LILLE). Rubble is either nuked or destroyed in conventional fighting (per the Referee's Manual), and there was no significant conventional fighting in France (their line on the Rhine would be well to the east of Lille).

There is a refinery in LILLE (or at least there was one in WWII)

https://books.google.com/books?id=NP...0lille&f=false

According to its wikipedia page it is considered to be the most Flemish French city, so it also could have been destroyed by rioting at some point.

[Rainbow Six]

AFAIK the Finnish material is based on the original GDW material but is effectively a standalone work with its own modified timeline. I certainly don't think it's canon.

To the best of my knowledge GDW never published anything that definitively stated one way or the other whether Sweden (or France for that matter) was nuked, although there's the occasional nugget of gold buried in Challenge magazines (e.g. the article on Italy for 2300 that mentions the Papacy relocating to Peruggia). If there is anything I suspect that's where it would be.

Personally, I think limited strikes on Sweden (and France) are both well within the realm of feasibility / canon.

[RN7]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

Personally, I think limited strikes on Sweden (and France) are both well within the realm of feasibility / canon.

I think its based on your personal preference for V1 or V2.

I've always preferred V1 as the Soviet Union and the timeline and history is less complicated. In V2 there was a limited nuclear strike on France, but with that there is a bit of a trade off with the military power that France would have in the aftermath. I've always liked a big French force in the Middle East and in other locations, which gives an extra component to the traditional two dimensional US-Soviet rivalry.

[Antenna]

Hi gang

I had a whole homepage devouted to GDW RPGs, and one section to Sweden in T2k. To make a long story short, my account at the webhotel was courapted. but I have recently been able to restore most of the pages and in a soon future gonna put the pages on the net.

Antenna

[Raellus]

Welcome back! We've missed you.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by Antenna

Hi gang

I had a whole homepage devouted to GDW RPGs, and one section to Sweden in T2k. To make a long story short, my account at the webhotel was courapted. but I have recently been able to restore most of the pages and in a soon future gonna put the pages on the net.

Antenna

Saw this posted on a wiki about Sweden - did this come from your pages? They actually had you listed as an external source

http://twilight2000.wikia.com/wiki/Sweden

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by Antenna

Hi gang

I had a whole homepage devouted to GDW RPGs, and one section to Sweden in T2k. To make a long story short, my account at the webhotel was courapted. but I have recently been able to restore most of the pages and in a soon future gonna put the pages on the net.

Antenna

Great to see you back on! Have you ever considered trying to publish what you have officially on Sweden? Marc Miller is looking for more material for new official releases - both Raellus and I have released new official modules/sourcebooks for the game

[RN7]

Originally Posted by kato13

There is a refinery in LILLE (or at least there was one in WWII)

https://books.google.com/books?id=NP...0lille&f=false

According to its wikipedia page it is considered to be the most Flemish French city, so it also could have been destroyed by rioting at some point.

I don't think there is an oil refinery in Lille anymore, at least not one that I can find anyhow. The nearest French refinery is I believe in Dunkirk. A lot of French oil refineries seem to have closed or are not in operation at the moment, certainly compared to 20 years ago. Probably something to do with the proliferation of French nuclear reactors which has replaced a lot of oil and fossil fuel sources for electricity in France.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by RN7

I don't think there is an oil refinery in Lille anymore, at least not one that I can find anyhow. The nearest French refinery is I believe in Dunkirk. A lot of French oil refineries seem to have closed or are not in operation at the moment, certainly compared to 20 years ago. Probably something to do with the proliferation of French nuclear reactors which has replaced a lot of oil and fossil fuel sources for electricity in France.

Per the 2nd edition France was definitely nuked - and its seems to imply that Lyons and Paris were nuked or at least heavily damaged - see the comment about Marseilles

"Despite being neutral, France was subjected to nuclear strikes to deny its port and oil refining facilities to NATO. Damage was generally confined to coastal areas, but casualties were severe. Riots and civil confusion caused by the war and the influx of refugees forced the government to close France's borders, then occupy all territories west of the Rhine. A free-fire zone (commonly called La Zone Morte - the Dead Zone) has been established within 50km (31 miles) east of the Rhine. Officially, the border is closed to non-French citizens, but the guards are generally open to bribes. The border with Spain is closed, but often crossed by smugglers. The Union Corse (Corsican criminal underworld) dominate a thriving black market in the region. The government is increasingly repressive, but life in most areas is tolerable.
Some areas, particularly the mountains, are in open rebellion, and martial law is in effect. The government in the southern areas is corrupt and dominated by the Union Corse. Marseilles is the largest undamaged city in the country, though it is in a bad state compared to its pre-war condition. Some trade between Europe and the eastern Mediterranean passes through the city, which is entirely run by the Union Corse.

Most of France is organised (by the French government and military in most areas, by the Union Corse in some southern areas). A few areas in the mountains are disputed or independent. The area between the old border and the Rhine is a combination of terrorised, insular and cantonments. La Zone Morte is devastated"