Korean Omega

[dragoon500ly]

In an odd sort of way, the presence of units of the Soviet Pacific Fleet, covering their remaining bases, and being in position to threaten a withdrawal FLEET back to the States makes sense.

Picking 1988, Ships and Aircraft of the Soviet Fleet, 3rd edition lists the following as being in the Pacific Fleet:

2 Kiev class carriers
8 Delta III class SSBNs
9 Delta I class SSBNs
1 Oscar II class SSGNS
8 Charlie I class SSGNs
14 Echo II class SSGNs
4 Akula class SSNs
7 Victor III class SSNs
3 Victor I class SSNs
4 November class SSNs
4 Juliett class SSs
6 Kilo class SSs
1 Kirov class BCGN
3 Kara class CGs
2 Kresta II class CGs
3 Kynda class CGs
2 Sverdlov class CO s
4 Udaloy class DDGs
3 Sovremennyy class DDGs
4 Kashin class DDGs
4 Kanin class DDGs
18 Krivak class CGs
13 Grisha class corvette

Soviet Naval Aviation assets included
2 Fighter Regiments
4 ASW Regiments
2 Long Range Reconnaissance Regiments
4 Reconnaissance Regiments
5 Long Range Strike Regiments

Quite a nice little strike force with plenty of air support as you can see.

Now how much hasn't been destroyed or is down for major mechanical failures is open to question, but enough to be a threat to a trans-Pacific movement is certainly possible.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

In an odd sort of way, the presence of units of the Soviet Pacific Fleet, covering their remaining bases, and being in position to threaten a withdrawal FLEET back to the States makes sense.

Picking 1988, Ships and Aircraft of the Soviet Fleet, 3rd edition lists the following as being in the Pacific Fleet:

2 Kiev class carriers
8 Delta III class SSBNs
9 Delta I class SSBNs
1 Oscar II class SSGNS
8 Charlie I class SSGNs
14 Echo II class SSGNs
4 Akula class SSNs
7 Victor III class SSNs
3 Victor I class SSNs
4 November class SSNs
4 Juliett class SSs
6 Kilo class SSs
1 Kirov class BCGN
3 Kara class CGs
2 Kresta II class CGs
3 Kynda class CGs
2 Sverdlov class CO s
4 Udaloy class DDGs
3 Sovremennyy class DDGs
4 Kashin class DDGs
4 Kanin class DDGs
18 Krivak class CGs
13 Grisha class corvette

Soviet Naval Aviation assets included
2 Fighter Regiments
4 ASW Regiments
2 Long Range Reconnaissance Regiments
4 Reconnaissance Regiments
5 Long Range Strike Regiments

Quite a nice little strike force with plenty of air support as you can see.

Now how much hasn't been destroyed or is down for major mechanical failures is open to question, but enough to be a threat to a trans-Pacific movement is certainly possible.

And most likely by 2001 on the bottom of the ocean for sure - otherwise the Soviet destroyer group that took on the Virginia would have had more along with them

and Satellite Down made it very clear that the Soviet Pacific Navy was basically gone by 2001 - see the description of the ramshackle Soviet DD they put back in service in 1998 that the Virginia took out AFTER she was a beached wreck

Have a feeling any evacuation from Korea wont be facing Soviet ships if thats an accurate description of what they had left in the Pacific

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Olefin

And most likely by 2001 on the bottom of the ocean for sure - otherwise the Soviet destroyer group that took on the Virginia would have had more along with them

and Satellite Down made it very clear that the Soviet Pacific Navy was basically gone by 2001 - see the description of the ramshackle Soviet DD they put back in service in 1998 that the Virginia took out AFTER she was a beached wreck

Have a feeling any evacuation from Korea wont be facing Soviet ships if thats an accurate description of what they had left in the Pacific

This is precisely why I made this point

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

(We can debate backwards and forwards on this board about how many ships various Navies might have operational by that stage in the War, but that's not my point - my point is that unless those charged with actually planning such a mission in the T2K timeline were confident that the risk of Soviet naval action against the fleet was minimal (or they felt they had adequate defences against any such action) there would be an element of risk attached)

You know that the Soviet Navy is in poor shape because it tells you that in a GDW module (it might be helpful for those of us who don't have that module if you could post the text you're referring to).

My point is in the T2K world staff officers in the USA and / or Korea / Japan considering a potential evacuation don't have that sort of information. They would have to deal with the intelligence that they had - and it's not as if they're going to be getting anything from satellites or Blackbird flights over Soviet naval bases. The mere rumour that there is a Soviet attack submarine active in the Pacific may be enough to make them reconsider putting 15,000 men aboard ships.

This isn't about the state of the Soviet Navy. It's about what state US planners think the Soviet Navy is in.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

This is precisely why I made this point



You know that the Soviet Navy is in poor shape because it tells you that in a GDW module (it might be helpful for those of us who don't have that module if you could post the text you're referring to).

My point is in the T2K world staff officers in the USA and / or Korea / Japan considering a potential evacuation don't have that sort of information. They would have to deal with the intelligence that they had - and it's not as if they're going to be getting anything from satellites or Blackbird flights over Soviet naval bases. The mere rumour that there is a Soviet attack submarine active in the Pacific may be enough to make them reconsider putting 15,000 men aboard ships.

This isn't about the state of the Soviet Navy. It's about what state US planners think the Soviet Navy is in.

wasnt referring to your post FYI - I was referring to dragoon500ly post about how big the Soviet fleet was

The module is called Satellite Down and its about the only canon reference to the Soviet fleet in the Pacific

Details how the USS Virginia and her task force (in a very unrealistic way in my opinion FYI) were engaged by a Soviet destroyer task force in March of 1999 - one that only the Virginia survived and only for long enough to beach herself on an island off the Baja Peninsula

It also is the only canon reference to the Panama Canal both still being operational and in US hands

As for the fight with the Soviet DD - she was brought out of mothballs in the last few months of 1998, described as a battered hulk of a destroyer low on fuel and looking for a quick kill and engaging the beached Virginia and getting taken out by the still active guns and missile systems on board

It also details how the Soviets by early 2001 could only send a sail powered ship to try to retrieve a very important satellite