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  #1  
Old 07-14-2018, 01:15 PM
tsofian tsofian is offline
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Default A new idea for a cover for Prime Base

A major problem with original canon Prime Base was the cover story. No one likes the published one and no one has come up with one that hasn't been shot to pieces. Let's go back to first principals and see what we need and if I have a solution that works.

The base needs several types of entrances. One needs to be the construction entrance, so that is what we will chat about here.

This needs to be
Concealed
Secure
Big enough to allow a lot of large machinery and a high volume of materials to pass into
Not arouse suspicion as the activities take place
Either be concealed or filled in after it is done serving its purpose and before the war.

How about this



Grain elevators are all over the USA. They are huge. They have internal railway spurs that allow cars to be loaded and unloaded in covered conditions.

Morrow Industries owns the grain elevator. Some of the cars that come in are carrying supplies, equipment or personnel for Prime Base. They are taken into the buildings and detached from the train and put on a small siding that is in a building and is on a large elevator. The car descends to a deep tunnel and is pulled to the base, which could be several miles away. The car is either returned to the surface or cannibalized for materials for the base.

Any issues?
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Old 07-15-2018, 08:23 AM
nuke11 nuke11 is offline
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Are you planning on moving the location of Prime Base from the Nevada Black Desert to a location where grain elevators wouldn't look out of place?
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:29 AM
tsofian tsofian is offline
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Originally Posted by nuke11 View Post
Are you planning on moving the location of Prime Base from the Nevada Black Desert to a location where grain elevators wouldn't look out of place?
Either Yes or no. The grain elevator could be just outside of Gerlach Nevada and the tunnel several miles long. I have been thinking about moving Prime Base anyway.

In my estimation, Prime should actually be under a big fallout plume. It won't hurt the base. It will help keep people away from it and by 3-5 years later most of it will be gone anyway.
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Old 07-15-2018, 04:04 PM
Sprocketteer Sprocketteer is offline
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Originally Posted by tsofian View Post

In my estimation, Prime should actually be under a big fallout plume. It won't hurt the base. It will help keep people away from it and by 3-5 years later most of it will be gone anyway.
How about the Project setting off their own "safe"/low power nuke to hide itself?
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  #5  
Old 07-15-2018, 10:16 PM
cosmicfish cosmicfish is offline
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I am inclined to say that a grain elevator is probably not a good cover. First, the areas that have grain elevators are also areas that have a not-inconsiderable population. Second, these locations are probably going to be suspicious if they fall out of use without replacement. Third, you cannot disguise nearly enough stuff as grain.

I think an old mine or other such venture are probably a lot more desirable - no/minimal nearby population, easy explanation for a decade or two of heavy activity followed by abandonment, lots of use for a variety of heavy equipment.
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:18 PM
cosmicfish cosmicfish is offline
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How about the Project setting off their own "safe"/low power nuke to hide itself?
Very dangerous and conspicuous. The major powers could note that they didn't target the area, so enemies might presume it is a test site or other valid target, while friendlies might wonder what is going on and send people out to investigate. Even those unaware might notice that a nuke went off out in the middle of nowhere with no apparent associated missile. Plus the possibility of damaging your own site or rendering it unusable for some longer length of time.

Plus, you need a nuke, a regular old-fashioned nuke, and TMP doesn't need that exposure.
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  #7  
Old 07-16-2018, 01:44 PM
Madbomber Mike Madbomber Mike is offline
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Yeah, Agree with Nuke... a Grain elevator just about anywhere in Nevada is gonna stick out like a turd in a punch bowl!

Now, for a "Prime Alternate"... say somewhere in the heartland, it's doable.... but only just. Remember, these sites attract a lot of attention from the EPA, OSHA and the States Fire Marshalls (Grain Elevators blow up all on their own all the time due to static induced grain dust explosions) might be a little more scrutiny than TMP would like.


Can I interest you in this defunct K-Mart Distribution facility that's been abandoned and in receivership for the past 2 decades instead?
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  #8  
Old 07-16-2018, 04:53 PM
tsofian tsofian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
I am inclined to say that a grain elevator is probably not a good cover. First, the areas that have grain elevators are also areas that have a not-inconsiderable population. Second, these locations are probably going to be suspicious if they fall out of use without replacement. Third, you cannot disguise nearly enough stuff as grain.

I think an old mine or other such venture are probably a lot more desirable - no/minimal nearby population, easy explanation for a decade or two of heavy activity followed by abandonment, lots of use for a variety of heavy equipment.
Have you been out West? There are plenty of grain elevators in the middle of nowhere. There are also plenty of abandoned grain elevators. Plus why do you need to shut it down? It can operate until the end of the world.


And about your third comment https://www.steelcar.com/sites/defau...d-hopper_0.jpg

What's in this covered hopper car? It could be anything!

"Operating at a gross rail load of 286,000 pounds, the above 5,431-cubic foot hopper car is equipped with a through centre sill, designed for transporting medium-density commodities covering a variety of agricultural products as well as chemicals and allied products."
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  #9  
Old 07-16-2018, 05:03 PM
tsofian tsofian is offline
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Originally Posted by Madbomber Mike View Post
Yeah, Agree with Nuke... a Grain elevator just about anywhere in Nevada is gonna stick out like a turd in a punch bowl!

Except for the ones that are there. Do a Google search and you will come up with a number of them This one is the perfect model, although a bit small.

Neff Mill
5.0
3 Google reviews
Grain Elevator
Address: HC 60 Box 587, Ruby Valley, NV 89833
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  #10  
Old 07-16-2018, 06:34 PM
gamerguy gamerguy is offline
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Ya wanna stick it in Nevada, then put it down in Perfection Valley (formerly Rejection). There is already a small underground bunker. Perhaps TMP could work with the present owner on expanding his facility. Probably acquire an enlarged weapons cache that way.
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Old 07-16-2018, 06:38 PM
tsofian tsofian is offline
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Originally Posted by gamerguy View Post
Ya wanna stick it in Nevada, then put it down in Perfection Valley (formerly Rejection). There is already a small underground bunker. Perhaps TMP could work with the present owner on expanding his facility. Probably acquire an enlarged weapons cache that way.
I'm wearing my "Everything I needed to Know I learned from Burt Gummer" T-shirt right now!
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  #12  
Old 07-16-2018, 07:38 PM
tsofian tsofian is offline
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Originally Posted by Madbomber Mike View Post
. Remember, these sites attract a lot of attention from the EPA, OSHA and the States Fire Marshalls (Grain Elevators blow up all on their own all the time due to static induced grain dust explosions) might be a little more scrutiny than TMP would like.
If the War starts in 1989 construction of the base should be completed well before that point, especially if Bruce has an idea when the balloon will go up. Let's say everything has to be finished by 1985. In 1985 let's look at various Federal agencies and see who would really be looking at things the Project doesn't want revealed.

OSHA-Established in 1970 by Nixon. It would have the right to inspect any work site. However, Nevada is an OSHA State Plan State, which means the Federal OSHA has limited jurisdiction and worker safety laws are enforced at the State Level. The State program was certified in 1981. OSHA, in general, is far less intrusive than most people think. They have a very weak fine structure. If you wish to get a clear idea of the strength and aggressiveness of Nevada OSHA take a look at this report https://www.osha.gov/dcsp/final-nevada-report.pdf. Of particular interest is "Nevada OSHA agreed to conduct 2900 inspections as part of its budgeting process, which translates to 95 to 115 inspections per year per investigator, far too many per investigator to do a thorough job. The Nevada legislature utilizes this information to determine if the program is meeting its goals. (See IV-2, VII-5) "

There are 45,000 or so small businesses in Nevada, so let's say a total of 55,000 in the state. That means, on average, a single company can expect a visit once every 18 years. Now that doesn't take into account the number of workplaces, which are what is inspected. The 2900 will also include things like Fatality inspections, repeat inspections, inspections triggered by irate employees and such. Randoms will be only a part of the total.


EPA has very limited jurisdiction over a grain elevator. They do have some level of jurisdiction over mining. They didn't really get any teeth until CERCLA comes out in 1980 and really it takes several years for the programs to get rolling

"The EPA published the first Hazard Ranking System (HRS) in 1981, and the first National Priorities List (NPL) in 1983.[4] Implementation during early years, the two terms of the Reagan administration was ineffective, as only 16 of the 799 Superfund sites were cleaned up, and only $40 million of $700 million in recoverable funds from responsible parties were collected. Reagan's policies were described as laissez-faire.[5]:5"

Abandoned mines tend to attract a lot of EPA attention. They have tailing piles rich in heavy metals. Often they have large ponds or lakes filled with contaminated water. If the mine happened to be a uranium mine then not only will EPA be all over it, but also DOE. DOE has had a number of expansive programs in place since the late 1970s and up to the current day to locate and clean up these facilities. Also, as has been pointed out so many times mines have an irresistible attraction to the curious.


State Fire Marshals-Until the Westwego Grain Elevator Explosion of 1977 these risks were not really on anyone's radar "In 1977, a grain elevator in Westwego exploded due to a spark igniting grain dust. The explosion killed 36 people. The explosion prompted new safety developments in grain elevators.[citation needed]" After 1977 all grain elevators were probably inspected, those in urban settings getting a tighter look over. I'm fairly comfortable such a fire inspection would not catch the Morrow Project parts of the elevator.


And the one that everyone forgets MSHA. These guys are one of the most intrusive and aggressive of all federal agencies. Since 1977 each underground mine is REQUIRED to be inspected 4 times each year. That means any Morrow Project related mining operations are absolutely going to get 4 inspections from MSHA every year after 1977. If the mine is no longer in use by 1977 EPA will have jurisdiction if the mine has left any waste behind (which it almost certainly will have). See EPA above

FDA may inspect grain elevators, but probably not often and they won't be looking for secret doors and such.

From this, we can see that mining will be the most inspected type of operation. If the mine is operational posy 1977 it will get four inspections every year. MSHA inspectors have a well-deserved reputation of thoroughness. They will often look through the entire mine. If the mine is closed after 1980 it may end up on the Superfund NPL. Even if it isn't being actively cleaned up it might still get subjected to an in-depth environmental assessment, which can include drilling for soil samples.

Of these agencies (and I have worked with OSHA, EPA, DOE, MSHA, FDA and several others) I respected MSHA the most. Their inspectors were generally the best educated in their fields and were really on the ball. Fed OSHA folks were good in their small areas, but not as well rounded, and State OSHA inspectors have been noted as having inspected facilities and passed them just prior to serious disasters.

If avoiding inspections is a goal mines drop to the bottom of the list.
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  #13  
Old 07-17-2018, 07:45 AM
Madbomber Mike Madbomber Mike is offline
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tsofian - Only had to deal with MSHA once (mine demolition contract) and yes, they were a HUGE pain, but very thorough and professional. The rest, I work with and get inspected by regularly, so I think it's more of an industry specific thing.

I think what everyone is saying is that theres no grain industry anywhere near North-West Nevada... not that your idea isn't a valid one, it's just bad camouflage for the area. I've been to the black rock, theres not much of anything up there.
It'd be sorta like wearing a Ghillie Suit in the middle of a city... it's great camouflage... just not for THAT environment.

For that area, two choices, a mine, or a ranch, that's about it.


Now, if I was going to put it in the Midwest, a grain elevator makes sense. But personally, I can plop down a big assed distribution warehouse and have it go bankrupt/defunct after it burns down real quick and NOBODY will ever inspect it or really care about it once that happens. Tie it's status up in the courts for a couple decades and there ya go. Nobody on our side gives a damn about the site... just whats underneath it!
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  #14  
Old 07-17-2018, 07:02 PM
tsofian tsofian is offline
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Both mines and ranches have serious problems.

A mine has a small entrance which doesn't allow a whole lot of traffic. It is very dangerous in and of itself. MSHA will be hard to fool. Unless its something like a strip mine you don't have a lot of volume going out at any given time and you never have volume going in. Empty haul trucks aren't covered, which means they will be hard to have filled with anything.

It's difficult to develop a cover story for a ranch that needs all the crap hauled to it that Prime Base does. It has to be thousands of truckloads of material, not to mention all the people. Food for however many people for 10 years or more is 2 kg/day/person so 2X3650X500 is over 3.5 million kilograms alone. That is 3500 truckloads all by itself.

The three or four "towers" each probably weigh ten thousand tons or so, meaning another 30 to 40 THOUSAND truckloads (if using a 1 tonne truck)

Even bigger trucks will still yield tens of thousands of truckloads of material. Let's be conservative and say that over the period of base construction 100,000 tons of materials must be brought into the site. So we can say that is 25,000 truckloads (if using a 4 ton truck). Check my math but that is around 7 trucks a day.

That is hard to explain going INTO a relatively small mine and basically impossible for a ranch.

Now the big ass railcars can each hold 50 or more tons, so only 2,000 railway cars.
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Old 07-18-2018, 08:36 AM
mmartin798 mmartin798 is offline
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Using grain elevators as cover would move Prime Base close to the Nevada-California border, the Nevada-Utah border or close to Las Vegas where they are close to agriculture. The only areas that have rail service would be Las Vegas and the Utah border. The area around McGill NV would seem a decent fit. Rail service, small population, about 3000 hectare of cultivated fields nearby and mountain peaks 7-20km away. It would be a small elevator to be sure, but it may still fit the bill.

One possible negative is the proximity to Nevada Ely State Prison. It is a maximum security prison with current inmate population of about 1125 and a staff of 406.

Last edited by mmartin798; 07-18-2018 at 08:42 AM.
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Old 07-18-2018, 08:40 AM
mcruff mcruff is offline
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Default old missle silo

what about using an old missle silo? front company buys one to turn into a trendy hotel type project hence the reason all the trucks moving in and out and then has financial issues slowing down work etc... . I have no idea about the logistics so probably wouldn't be feasible. Just throwing in my 2 cents.

Greg
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Old 07-18-2018, 11:59 AM
cosmicfish cosmicfish is offline
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Originally Posted by tsofian View Post
Have you been out West? There are plenty of grain elevators in the middle of nowhere.
Yes, I have been out west, and yes, there are grain elevators... in farming territory. If the land is commercially viable for agriculture, then there are farmers, and towns, and lots of other stuff that you would prefer to keep away from your super-secret underground command base.

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Plus why do you need to shut it down? It can operate until the end of the world.
You don't have to... but the challenge, as you note later, is in camouflaging the traffic in and out of the base, and that is going to be really hard to do when you have substantially varying amounts of traffic. One way to address that is to just shut down the site once you are done with the bulk of the work... but that doesn't work for agricultural property because it is tied to the actual land. You can shut down a mine (mine's are always temporary) or a distribution center (just move it elsewhere), but farms don't stop, they only get replaced with higher-density usage. So shutting it down without putting in a shopping mall or real estate development would be unusual and suspicious.

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Originally Posted by tsofian View Post
And about your third comment https://www.steelcar.com/sites/defau...d-hopper_0.jpg

What's in this covered hopper car? It could be anything!

"Operating at a gross rail load of 286,000 pounds, the above 5,431-cubic foot hopper car is equipped with a through centre sill, designed for transporting medium-density commodities covering a variety of agricultural products as well as chemicals and allied products."
Sure, but grain elevator rail operations generally happen in the open, and farmers usually take notice. You can put a lot of things in these railcars, but you can't discretely unload them. Additionally, I would note that you can't fit everything in those railcars and would have a hard time explaining why a helicopter, for example, is getting unloaded at a grain elevator. And farmers usually keep track of each other, in my experience - they are likely to note the unusual traffic and question why this set of farms is doing so much more traffic than their own.
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Old 07-18-2018, 12:10 PM
mmartin798 mmartin798 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
Sure, but grain elevator rail operations generally happen in the open, and farmers usually take notice. You can put a lot of things in these railcars, but you can't discretely unload them. Additionally, I would note that you can't fit everything in those railcars and would have a hard time explaining why a helicopter, for example, is getting unloaded at a grain elevator. And farmers usually keep track of each other, in my experience - they are likely to note the unusual traffic and question why this set of farms is doing so much more traffic than their own.
I was going to overlook this, but you are correct. Despite the way the buildings look at a grain elevator or even a transfer station, the rail cars are loaded and unloaded in plain view of everyone, not inside a structure. This would make secrecy a problem.
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Old 07-18-2018, 12:29 PM
cosmicfish cosmicfish is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsofian View Post
Both mines and ranches have serious problems.
Agreed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsofian View Post
A mine has a small entrance which doesn't allow a whole lot of traffic. It is very dangerous in and of itself. MSHA will be hard to fool. Unless its something like a strip mine you don't have a lot of volume going out at any given time and you never have volume going in. Empty haul trucks aren't covered, which means they will be hard to have filled with anything.
The mine entrance is no bigger problem than it is for any other venture; it isn't like grain elevators are famous for giant doors or anything. And the haul trucks or other traffic are less of an issue when you are out in the middle of nowhere instead of right in the middle of farmlands.

MSHA is a valid issue and may be the single best reason why a mine might not work, but grain elevators also get inspected, if less vigorously. Any Project site is likely to require some method of avoiding honest inspection, whether that is bribing the inspectors or having the inspections performed by Project personnel or some other method.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsofian View Post
It's difficult to develop a cover story for a ranch that needs all the crap hauled to it that Prime Base does. It has to be thousands of truckloads of material, not to mention all the people. Food for however many people for 10 years or more is 2 kg/day/person so 2X3650X500 is over 3.5 million kilograms alone. That is 3500 truckloads all by itself.

The three or four "towers" each probably weigh ten thousand tons or so, meaning another 30 to 40 THOUSAND truckloads (if using a 1 tonne truck)

Even bigger trucks will still yield tens of thousands of truckloads of material. Let's be conservative and say that over the period of base construction 100,000 tons of materials must be brought into the site. So we can say that is 25,000 truckloads (if using a 4 ton truck). Check my math but that is around 7 trucks a day.

That is hard to explain going INTO a relatively small mine and basically impossible for a ranch.

Now the big ass railcars can each hold 50 or more tons, so only 2,000 railway cars.
Let's go with 100,000 tons, and consider 3 delivery options and three time periods:

1 ton truck load*: 100,000 loads, or 80/day for 5 years, 40/day**or 10 years, or 20/day for 20 years

15 ton semi truck load: 6700 loads, or 5/day for 5 years, 3/day for 10 years, or 1 per day for 20 years.

50 ton railcar load: 2000 loads, or 1.6/day for 5 years, 0.8/day for 10 years, or 0.4/day for 20 years. Assuming a 50 car train, that would be 1 train per month for years, 1 per 2 months for 10 years, or 1 per 4 months for 20 years.

I think what this demonstrates more than anything else that a large base is going to be hard to conceal with a small business. It really sells me on the idea that a minimally-regulated business that expects high total traffic with little or no "civilian" traffic or exposure would be ideal... and that sounds like a shipping or distribution hub, not a mine or ranch or grain elevator.

It also drives home the challenges in concealing a large base, and gives more incentive for distributing those assets as much as possible.


*: Terrible choice, too many things are too large or heavy for this option.
**: Assuming 250 days per year (i.e., weekens off)
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Old 07-18-2018, 06:47 PM
tsofian tsofian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
Yes, I have been out west, and yes, there are grain elevators... in farming territory. If the land is commercially viable for agriculture, then there are farmers, and towns, and lots of other stuff that you would prefer to keep away from your super-secret underground command base.

There were at least three on I-70 past Grand Junction and you can't call that farmland at all


You don't have to... but the challenge, as you note later, is in camouflaging the traffic in and out of the base, and that is going to be really hard to do when you have substantially varying amounts of traffic. One way to address that is to just shut down the site once you are done with the bulk of the work... but that doesn't work for agricultural property because it is tied to the actual land. You can shut down a mine (mine's are always temporary) or a distribution center (just move it elsewhere), but farms don't stop, they only get replaced with higher-density usage. So shutting it down without putting in a shopping mall or real estate development would be unusual and suspicious.

No grain elevator every went out of business? I have seen a lot of abandoned grain elevators on my travels

Sure, but grain elevator rail operations generally happen in the open, and farmers usually take notice. You can put a lot of things in these railcars, but you can't discretely unload them. Additionally, I would note that you can't fit everything in those railcars and would have a hard time explaining why a helicopter, for example, is getting unloaded at a grain elevator. And farmers usually keep track of each other, in my experience - they are likely to note the unusual traffic and question why this set of farms is doing so much more traffic than their own.
They do "generally happen in the open but there are a lot that have covered bays. I did a quick search of images and found plenty of them. Heck they could be part of a small repair facility attached to the grain elevator. There is absolutely nothing strange about a repair shop having doors that close, especially in crazy hot summers and awful winters.
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:03 PM
tsofian tsofian is offline
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An even easier solution is that the elevator is owned by one o Morrow Industries shadow companies and is surrounded by experimental low water farms. Now you have a reason for an elevator to be there. You have no "nosey farmers" to be looking about. You can have the elevator and the farms staffed with MP folks. You can have the town be basically a company town. You can now put it anyplace where land is cheap and available and someone wants to make the desert bloom.

When the experiemtn fails or the grants dry up you close the mill, the town dies and you are left with just another ghost town in the old west
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:36 PM
cosmicfish cosmicfish is offline
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If you desperately want Prime Base to be accessed by a grain elevator, you can do so. It feels incredibly forced to me.

Sure, you can cover the grain elevator loading bay. You can fake a farm. I still think this stuff draws attention and risks exposure, for the reasons previously mentioned and more. Your farm has to be large enough that the substantial quantity of goods coming in can be disguised in the reasonable traffic of the farm, and that means a big farm. You have to have a reason to cover the unloading area, not at all common in the Midwest or Nevada*, and a reason for all those rail cars to go through there. You can make it an experimental farm but then you have to justify the expense and defy the interest it would reasonably attract. You could make it a whole company town, but that has a TON of risks associated with it, including letting a bunch of other people in on the secret who otherwise have no reason to be (because if they had a reason to know about the Project, they would be working on Project necessities and not running an experimental low water farm in the desert).

In short, I think there are less risky options out there, AND those options also address other needs for the Project - a mine** handles the excavation of the base, a distribution center helps with the large volume of supplies being shipped by the Project, etc. This, to me, looks the Project getting into a whole new, unnecessary, otherwise unneeded field of endeavor for no real reason.

And please don't think I am trying to be mean or unusually critical - this is how critical I always am, and your grain elevator idea already shows more thought and logic than the canonical "under a ranch" idea. But I don't think it works unless there are other unmentioned factors, like drastically scaling back the size of the base.


*: Not an expert, but I've spent time in backcountry Nevada and Midwest farm country.

**: A mine is probably *as* risky. The mine risks exposure by a small number of government people, the farm risks exposure by a larger number of ordinary people.
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Old 08-19-2018, 12:10 PM
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Default Another Idea

Why not use an underground storage unit as a front company, the Company Iron Mountian has something like 1400 storage units around the US. Now granted they are all not like the Iron Mountain Storage Facility Boyers PA but it does have a large fleet of vehicles and a lot of warehousing. And the site of heavy excavating equipment at mine they could be explained as expanding the business. Heck some of this companies client could be other front companies.

Just a thought
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Old 08-21-2018, 09:49 AM
mmartin798 mmartin798 is offline
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I will grant you that building or expanding a secure underground data center/secure document storage center could easily justify the moving of a great deal of electronics, power systems, HVAC and the like. The only problem is that for the cover to work, it has to be reasonably close to the users of the services, which puts it close to a population center and possible nuclear strike. You might justify a data center in the desert, but clients want/need ready access to physical documents and most likely do not want or cannot have a 5-6 hour delay for travel time.
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Old 08-21-2018, 10:12 PM
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Heh, you don't have to be a *suxcessful* document storage facilty.
Many more: https://www.google.com/search?ei=dOJ....0.PqeW_lmb6FM

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Old 08-22-2018, 10:56 AM
mmartin798 mmartin798 is offline
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Heh, you don't have to be a *suxcessful* document storage facilty.
Many more: https://www.google.com/search?ei=dOJ....0.PqeW_lmb6FM

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You are correct, being successful is not a requirement, but some level of success is needed to warrant continuing traffic. Many of the storage sites you mention are close to major population centers and nuke targets in 4th edition. All three of Iron Mountains facilities are really close. The LDS Vault is arguably safe, though fallout could be an issue. The Scientology center is a winner for your argument. The best example may be one hidden in the Google search you share. Underground Vaults & Storage in Hutchinson KS may be the best. Salt is still mined there, construction of new shafts where freezing an aquifer was needed, as well as the multiple contractors during that shaft construction all can give cover to a base. The only issue is one of mine safety inspectors, but as mentioned before these could be CoT plants in those positions that overlook the base construction areas.
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Old 08-23-2018, 10:42 AM
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rcaf_777 rcaf_777 is offline
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Originally Posted by mmartin798 View Post
You are correct, being successful is not a requirement, but some level of success is needed to warrant continuing traffic. Many of the storage sites you mention are close to major population centers and nuke targets in 4th edition. All three of Iron Mountains facilities are really close. The LDS Vault is arguably safe, though fallout could be an issue. The Scientology center is a winner for your argument. The best example may be one hidden in the Google search you share. Underground Vaults & Storage in Hutchinson KS may be the best. Salt is still mined there, construction of new shafts where freezing an aquifer was needed, as well as the multiple contractors during that shaft construction all can give cover to a base. The only issue is one of mine safety inspectors, but as mentioned before these could be CoT plants in those positions that overlook the base construction areas.
The Company and easily have many of the Morrow Industries as clients nor it could have separate site (IE hey business is growing so we are building another mine shaft.) Also you need to remember that when Iron mountain start is was a company and protected documents from a Nuclear war so it sites were away from the major centers and underground. The Company also got US Government Contacts for this service
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Old 08-24-2018, 04:19 PM
tsofian tsofian is offline
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Originally Posted by rcaf_777 View Post
The Company and easily have many of the Morrow Industries as clients nor it could have separate site (IE hey business is growing so we are building another mine shaft.) Also you need to remember that when Iron mountain start is was a company and protected documents from a Nuclear war so it sites were away from the major centers and underground. The Company also got US Government Contacts for this service
The problem comes in that if it is well known to be full of things the US Government wants to survive a nuclear war it becomes a nuclear target at some point
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Old 09-04-2018, 12:17 PM
knightofrubus knightofrubus is offline
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How do you guys usually hide Boltholes? I'm tempted to say that the project used a lot of private holdings such as housing developments to get them set up under cover. As for Prime Base its been bugging me how you could hide it in this day and age. The best option really would be something like a mine especially if its out west.
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Old 09-04-2018, 01:55 PM
dragoon500ly dragoon500ly is offline
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Originally Posted by knightofrubus View Post
How do you guys usually hide Boltholes? I'm tempted to say that the project used a lot of private holdings such as housing developments to get them set up under cover. As for Prime Base its been bugging me how you could hide it in this day and age. The best option really would be something like a mine especially if its out west.
Boltholes can be hidden in private property, under new construction storage units is an old favorite of mine, that new Wally World/Targeted/Cheapco store could have an extra buried under the corner, industrial parks, the list can be endless.

As for Prime, you can take risk of a mine, or any of the great ideas already presented, but you have to figure out just how you will disguise the amount of traffic that will be coming in. An argument can be made that Prime is far too large for its Command & Coordination mission...I feel that this really will depend on the size of a Project, that you as the PD feel comfortable with.
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