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Old 08-01-2017, 10:58 AM
Draq Draq is online now
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Default Soviet Vietnam...

I'm not sure if this has been brought up before, but is the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan mentioned or addressed anywhere in v1? In RL it is often referred to as the soviets Vietnam, only hastening the decline of the union. When v1 was first written, the Russians were still there. And in v1 the Soviet and Warsaw pact don't seem to be on as much of an economic decline as opposed to RL, so would we presume they won Afghanistan, and did the us/allies give any aid to the mujahadeen as per RL? And what other ventures abroad would they be engaged in to keep the economy afloat? For example the ussr and China were competing alot in Africa trying to win aid contracts, and starting proxy wars.
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Old 08-01-2017, 12:05 PM
Benjamin Benjamin is offline
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The alternative history anthology, "Cold War Hot," (ed. Peter Tsorous) has a scenario in it where the Soviets win Afghanistan. If I remember correctly it had Carter win re-election and not send arms to the Mujahadeen.

That anthology also had two scenarios where in the US wins Vietnam. I especially like the one where Abrams goes on the offensive into the North.

As for other potential conflicts between 1986 and 1995...
China versus Vietnam: this is good one to have the Soviets supply aid to Vietnam thus furthering the Sino-Soviet split.

South Africa: largely ignored in V.1, it is likely that apartheid might come to a messy end in this reality

Ecuador versus Peru: near war in reality could see an actual war if the Cold War has been lengthened

There are any number of conflicts that could occur between those years that we luckily avoided in real life. See " Merc: 2000" (GDW, of course) and "Future Wars" by Col. Trevor Dupuy for some ideas.

Benjamin
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Old 08-01-2017, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draq View Post
I'm not sure if this has been brought up before, but is the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan mentioned or addressed anywhere in v1?
The only V1 canon references I'm aware of are in the RDF Sourcebook, and even then it's brief.

Quote:
[In 1989/90] the Soviet government became increasingly preoccupied with a rapidly modernizing China, their influence in the Middle East slowly waned. The war in Afghanistan dragged on interminably. Despite a steady influx of men and materiel, the Soviets were no closer to a solution than they were twelve years earlier.
Beyond that there's a few references to specific individuals / units having served in Afghanistan
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Old 08-02-2017, 06:25 PM
Matt Wiser Matt Wiser is offline
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The V.1 Soviet Vehicle Guide mentions several Soviet divisions as still being in Afghanistan in 1995, I believe.
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Old 08-02-2017, 06:36 PM
Draq Draq is online now
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I only ask because IRL the main reason the Soviet union collapsed was failing economy. The cold war kept them afloat. Either being directly involved in conflict, or supporting it somehow. Since Stalins restructuring and the industrial proliferation, the ussr was pretty much run as a war economy.
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Old Yesterday, 12:28 AM
Draq Draq is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin View Post
As for other potential conflicts between 1986 and 1995...
China versus Vietnam: this is good one to have the Soviets supply aid to Vietnam thus furthering the Sino-Soviet split.

Benjamin
It would actually be a continuation or a 'round 2' https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War
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Old Yesterday, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
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I only ask because IRL the main reason the Soviet union collapsed was failing economy. The cold war kept them afloat. Either being directly involved in conflict, or supporting it somehow. Since Stalins restructuring and the industrial proliferation, the ussr was pretty much run as a war economy.
The main reason why the Soviet Union collapsed was due to a loss of massive earning from oil exports in the mid-1980's, and this was engineered by Saudi Arabia. In the Cold War the Soviets only made a profit from the exports of arms and oil, but mostly from oil. In 1985 Saudi Arabia ramped up its oil production and into 1986 the cost of a barrel of oil fell from US $23 to under $12 and wiped out US $20 billion in Soviet oil export profits (that's about $60 billion in todays money).

There are two theories why the Saudi's did this. The first is that Saudi Arabia increased oil production to punish fellow OPEC members Iran and Iraq who kept exceeding their oil quotas for years because of the Iran-Iraq war.

Another theory is that the Saudi's made a secret deal with Ronald Reagan to kill Soviet earnings from oil exports, while America simultaneously embarked on a massive rearmament programme. The result would be the Soviet economy would go bankrupt as they would be crushed by loss of earnings and trying to compete with America. This is basically what did happen and it led to Gorbachev coming to power to reform the Soviet economy and system.

I'd like to believe it was the latter reason, and it is no coincidence that the Saudi's have become very reliant on America to under write their security since that time, while America has been very reluctant to punish Saudi Arabia for exporting Islamic extremists or criticise its medieval laws and social structure.

Win one for the Gipper!!
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Old Yesterday, 03:59 PM
Draq Draq is online now
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I'm just trying to find what kept the soviet union alive and somewhat formidible in the v1 timeline(or at least that's how it seems portrayed to me.), as apposed to the anemic shadow of it's former self we had in real life.
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