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  #61  
Old 10-20-2011, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Cdnwolf View Post
Oh come off it... my dog can out do anything they throw at you in the chamber...
Is it a yellow lab by any chance? My dog is pretty deadly also.
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  #62  
Old 10-20-2011, 10:52 PM
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^ The above made me laugh out loud.

Could a Nelson or a Patton even make it to Flag rank in the modern military?
frankly they wouldn't have gotten their commisions in the mordern military.
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  #63  
Old 10-21-2011, 12:50 PM
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Is it a yellow lab by any chance? My dog is pretty deadly also.
Lol fox red lab ...
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  #64  
Old 10-21-2011, 01:43 PM
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frankly they wouldn't have gotten their commisions in the mordern military.
And why not?

Patton attended West Point, and graduated with Honors. He came from a long line of affluant ancestors, and was well educated. Prior to WW1 his career was the very image of a Cavalry Officer achiving above and beyond expectations with Multiple stints attending the worlds most highly rated Cavalry School, as well as being the youngest ever appointed US Army Master of the Sword - back in the 10's, the US Cavalry School still taught sword drills - and he even designed a new sword based on his experiences.

In 1916, in Mexico, Patton led the US Army's first ever armoured attack, and excelled in that as well as leading further raids and recce missions.

During WW1, he was assigned to the Army Tank Corp, and once more, performed above expections, earning the Purple Heart while leading 10 men from his disabled tank agianst a Machine Gun nest.

After the war, he went back to the Cavalry, and while assigned to Hawaii in 1931 presented a study to the Pentagon saying that the islands was incredibly week agianst a carrier born Air Attack. He then commanded the 3d ACR, before becoming the commander of Fort Myer till the start of WW2.

At no time till the start of the war had he done anything that would preclude him from achiving high rank in the Army.

Nelson, in his day, started life agian, from an affluant family, but he got his start as a ordinary seaman. The utmost lowest rank you could have in the Royal Navy at the time. During his first cruise, he was appointed midshipman, and started his training to be an officer (Granted, it helped that the Captian of the ship was his uncle - but nepotism is still very much alive today). While he took full advantage of the Patronage system of the day, in every command he held, he, much like Patton, excelled above and beyond normal expectations.

During the Peace between 83 and 93, he, like most officers in the Navy, was placed on half pay and placed in Reserve - a fairly normal occurance for Officers in the Royal Navy. While on Half Pay, he was known for going the extra mile to ensure former members of the crew of his ships was gainfully employed and in good health. With the return of war with France, he once more excelled. While he could be called to task for being prone to going off orders, with very little exception those larks ending in overwhealming successes.


In both cases, 90% of the heat directed to both officers was in regards to thier private lives. But in both cases, the behavour wasn't exceptional to the age: Perhaps a bit more than the normal, but it was still normal for the day.
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  #65  
Old 10-21-2011, 04:10 PM
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  #66  
Old 10-21-2011, 04:11 PM
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  #67  
Old 10-21-2011, 04:13 PM
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  #68  
Old 10-21-2011, 04:33 PM
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  #69  
Old 10-21-2011, 04:36 PM
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Hate to say this... but..

Thats an US Army tank: Marines don't have A2's...
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  #70  
Old 10-21-2011, 05:23 PM
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Nelson, in his day, started life agian, from an affluant family, but he got his start as a ordinary seaman. The utmost lowest rank you could have in the Royal Navy at the time. During his first cruise, he was appointed midshipman, and started his training to be an officer (Granted, it helped that the Captian of the ship was his uncle - but nepotism is still very much alive today). While he took full advantage of the Patronage system of the day, in every command he held, he, much like Patton, excelled above and beyond normal expectations.
.
The Royal Navy was (and still is) a meritocracy. In the army of the time a comission could be bought and in the Navy a Midshipman's rank could be obtained through nepotism but it was never considered a comissioned rank but a training position.

To be comissioned a lieutenant in the Royal navy you had to pass an examination, normaly before a board of three serving captains. The system was in place to make nepotism and incompetence as hard as possible. Nelson achieved his rank and title through his own merit and actions.

It's to be noted that Britain has not fought a proper war since Korea and America has not fought a proper war since Vietnam. All conflicts have been short affairs in which one side has superior forces and the outcome was determined in months rather than years.

Even Afghanistan can not be considered a proper war in this sense, Britian has suffered less than 400 dead in TEN years of conflict. The kind of war that created men like Patton and Nelson, a war in which our very nation and way of life was in dire and direct threat has not yet (thank all that is holy) happened. If it where to arise you can guarantee all this health and safety bullsit, all this political correctness nonesense would be the first things to be forgotten.
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  #71  
Old 10-21-2011, 05:38 PM
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The Royal Navy was (and still is) a meritocracy. In the army of the time a comission could be bought and in the Navy a Midshipman's rank could be obtained through nepotism but it was never considered a comissioned rank but a training position.

To be comissioned a lieutenant in the Royal navy you had to pass an examination, normaly before a board of three serving captains. The system was in place to make nepotism and incompetence as hard as possible. Nelson achieved his rank and title through his own merit and actions.

It's to be noted that Britain has not fought a proper war since Korea and America has not fought a proper war since Vietnam. All conflicts have been short affairs in which one side has superior forces and the outcome was determined in months rather than years.

Even Afghanistan can not be considered a proper war in this sense, Britian has suffered less than 400 dead in TEN years of conflict. The kind of war that created men like Patton and Nelson, a war in which our very nation and way of life was in dire and direct threat has not yet (thank all that is holy) happened. If it where to arise you can guarantee all this health and safety bullsit, all this political correctness nonesense would be the first things to be forgotten.
Indeed: From everything I read sitting for your lieutenant exams was more than a little difficult, those that passed without a doubt earned it. Don't mistake me, Nelson is very much in my opinion one of the best Naval commanders ever.


And as to PC-dom. Getting rid of it, and going back to an Army that is focused on what an Army is supposed to be is perhaps the only thing that makes war on that scale at least imaginable. not something I want mind, but..
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  #72  
Old 10-21-2011, 06:05 PM
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And why not?

Patton attended West Point, and graduated with Honors.
I though Patton was a VMI Graduate.
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  #73  
Old 10-21-2011, 06:57 PM
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I though Patton was a VMI Graduate.
Yes, he went to VMI, but only for a year. He wasn't that great a student there to be honest. The next year he moved to WP, repeated his plebe year (They wouldn't accept his first year credit from VMI), and really did well. Was Cadet Adjutant and graduated 1909.
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  #74  
Old 10-22-2011, 12:24 PM
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Hate to say this... but..

Thats an US Army tank: Marines don't have A2's...
Armor Journal had an article about the Marines operating four M-1A2s in Iraq. The article has the marines being issued the A2s as replacements for IED-damaged A1s.

The gun barrel damage was caused by a Marine crew sticking their tube through a wall and firing a HEAT-MP round into a room full of insurgents....
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  #75  
Old 10-22-2011, 01:48 PM
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Armor Journal had an article about the Marines operating four M-1A2s in Iraq. The article has the marines being issued the A2s as replacements for IED-damaged A1s.

The gun barrel damage was caused by a Marine crew sticking their tube through a wall and firing a HEAT-MP round into a room full of insurgents....
Ouch....

Well let that be a lesson, you just can't give nice things to little boys.
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  #76  
Old 10-22-2011, 05:16 PM
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Ouch....

Well let that be a lesson, you just can't give nice things to little boys.
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  #77  
Old 10-22-2011, 05:29 PM
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  #78  
Old 10-22-2011, 05:30 PM
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Old 10-22-2011, 05:34 PM
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Old 10-22-2011, 05:48 PM
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Old 10-22-2011, 05:56 PM
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Old 10-23-2011, 09:17 AM
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Old 10-23-2011, 09:18 AM
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Old 10-23-2011, 09:20 AM
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Old 10-23-2011, 09:22 AM
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Old 10-23-2011, 09:27 AM
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Old 10-23-2011, 09:32 AM
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Old 10-23-2011, 09:41 AM
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Default WWII American Soldier in England

During WW II an American soldier had been on the front lines in Europe
for three months, when he was finally given a week of R&R. He caught a
supply boat to a supply base in the south of England, then caught a
train to London. The train was extremely crowded and he could not find
a seat. He was dead on his feet and walked the length of the train
looking for any place to sit down.
Finally he found a compartment with seats facing each other; there was
room for two people on each seat. On one side sat only a proper looking,
older British lady, with a small dog sitting in the empty seat beside her.
"Could I please sit in that seat?" he asked.
The lady was insulted. "You bloody Americans are so rude", she said,
"can't you see my dog is sitting there"?
He walked through the train once more and still could not find a seat.
He found himself back at the same place.
"Lady I love dogs - have a couple at home - so I would be glad to hold
your dog if I can sit down", he said.
The lady replied, "You Americans are not only rude you are arrogant".
He leaned against the wall for a time, but was so tired he finally
said,
"Lady, I've been on the front lines in Europe for three months with
not a decent rest for all that time. Could I please sit there and hold your
dog?"
The lady replied, "You Americans are not only rude and arrogant, you
are also obnoxious."
With that comment, the soldier calmly stepped in, picked up the dog,
threw it out the window, and sat down.
The lady was speechless.
An older, neatly dressed Englishman sitting across on the other seat
spoke up. "Young man, I do not know if all you Americans fit the
lady's description of you or not. But I do know that you Americans do a lot
of things wrong. You drive on the wrong side of the road, you hold your
fork with the wrong hand, and now you have just thrown the wrong bitch out
of the window."
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Old 10-23-2011, 09:43 AM
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Default Duke of Wellington to the Foreign Office

MESSAGE FROM THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON TO THE BRITISH FOREIGN
OFFICE IN LONDON--
written from Central Spain, August 1812

Gentlemen,
Whilst marching from Portugal to a position which commands the
approach to Madrid and the French forces, my officers have been
diligently complying with your requests which have been sent by H.M.
ship from London to Lisbon and thence by dispatch to our headquarters.
We have enumerated our saddles, bridles, tents and tent poles, and all
manner of sundry items for which His Majesty's Government holds me
accountable. I have dispatched reports on the character, wit, and
spleen of every officer. Each item and every farthing has been
accounted for, with two regrettable exceptions for which I beg your
indulgence.
Unfortunately the sum of one shilling and ninepence remains
unaccounted for in one infantry battalion's petty cash and there has
been a hideous confusion as the number of jars of raspberry jam issued
to one cavalry regiment during a sandstorm in western Spain. This
reprehensible carelessness may be related to the pressure of
circumstance, since we are war with France, a fact which may come as a
bit of a surprise to you gentlemen in Whitehall.
This brings me to my present purpose, which is to request elucidation
of my instructions from His Majesty's Government so that I may better
understand why I am dragging an army over these barren plains. I
construe that perforce it must be one of two alternative duties, as
given below. I shall pursue either one with the best of my ability,
but I cannot do both:
1. To train an army of uniformed British clerks in Spain for the
benefit of the accountants and copy-boys in London or perchance.
2. To see to it that the forces of Napoleon are driven out of Spain.
Your most obedient servant,
Wellington
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  #90  
Old 10-23-2011, 12:17 PM
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I am never going to get away from that one I swear - while the redbearded fellow is not me he might as well be my twin. everywhere I have been I've had this one posted and asked if I was Canadian.

Doesn't help that my dad is however either.
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