the last Light Aircraft Carrier

[kalos72]

My group even has talked about using the old Intrepid in NYC as a landing platform for rotary wing assets. Of course I cant decide if I should give it to them with working engines or not. :P

[Targan]

Originally Posted by kalos72

My group even has talked about using the old Intrepid in NYC as a landing platform for rotary wing assets. Of course I cant decide if I should give it to them with working engines or not. :P

Its a nice idea and I can see why you'd get excited about it but seriously, even the smallest of carriers is a very large vessel. Where the hell do you get enough fuel oil to give it any kind of range? And would it be an efficient use of what fuel oil you could source? I don't want to rain on your parade here but in the late Twilight War I just don't see it happening.

[kalos72]

That was my position, then they countered with "We will move it around with tugs like the Wisla Krolowa, steam driven".

I have my hands full with these guys, all a bit too smart for their britches but at least they keep me on my toes.

[Abbott Shaull]

It would take several tugs to move her effectively without causing damage. Takes a lot horse power to start moving, and even more to stop a beast like that if she dead weight in the water.

Then factor in how many modern tugs have the room to be converted to wood/coal burning since there a limited amount of diesel.... After you convert, all the tugs would have limit power compared to before.

There are always ways around things...

[Blakrider]

this is the information i had been able to dig up in the USS Cabot as was in Spanish service

[Legbreaker]

Only one small problem I see with this:

The carrier remained moored in New Orleans until the middle of WWIII. Given a quick refit and re-equipped, she was recommissioned on 11 March 98.

New Orleans and the surrounding area got nuked in late 1997...

I doubt there'd have been much serious interest in the ship early enough to warrant it being moved. The war started less than a year earlier and am doubtful a 60 year old hull would have held much interest - the battle in the North Sea which destroyed "the last major fleet in being" did not occur until June 1997. Therefore, I can't see anyone in authority starting the process of refitting until a week or later (at best!). Then organising workmen who are probably heavily involved on other wartime projects, plus materials, machinery, etc would add at least another few months...
As the ship was stricken from the Spanish Navy in 89 it's been rusting away for quite a while. It's also highly likely that in it's last years in Spain, maintenance was minimal at best - why spend much time, effort and money on a ship which is about to be decommissioned anyway? Therefore, it's unlikely to be a simple case of an oil change and fresh coat of paint.

So, the assessment is good idea, but it just doesn't quite work given the timelines.

[Targan]

+1 to what Leg said.

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by kalos72

That was my position, then they countered with "We will move it around with tugs like the Wisla Krolowa, steam driven".

I have my hands full with these guys, all a bit too smart for their britches but at least they keep me on my toes.

Never underestimate PC's! Make them work to come up with the materials and skilled labor for the tugs! Make the amount needed unavailable, but reward them with a couple of tugs, barges.

[Olefin]

Bringing back an old thread from the dead about the Oklahoma City and the Cabot - I think the question on those two ships is really what was more important to the USN if they did try to bring either back - both would need parts so it may be a question of does the navy want a light cruiser or a helicopter carrier?

Between the two ships and the Little Rock which is anchored at Buffalo there would be enough parts to possibly get one or both of them back up and running.

Of the two Cabot is in the better condition as she was in commission as recent as 1989 whereas Oklahoma City has been in reserve since 1979.

Cabot cant operate modern jet planes that take off and land conventionally but she could operate helicopters or jump jets.

Oklahoma City still has her old guns so in an era where missiles are in short supply she still has formidable fire power so she can reach out and touch someone who only has 5 inch guns.

Both of their hulls and engines were in good shape

Thus either of them being brought back to the Navy is real possibility - the question is more which of the two would give the best bang for the Navy

I would think the biggest point that supports Cabot is her ability to be an aircraft transport - and given the losses the USN took in carriers she could be a way to get helos back home from Europe if she was still around by the end of the war

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by Olefin

I would think the biggest point that supports Cabot is her ability to be an aircraft transport - and given the losses the USN took in carriers she could be a way to get helos back home from Europe if she was still around by the end of the war

Would the Cabot have been sold back to the USA by Spain in 1989 if the Cold War hadn't ended (in the v1 timeline)? If the Cold War had continued, I can see NATO pressuring Spain to keep her in service, perhaps even subsidizing her operating costs. Another way of the looking at it, though, is that if the Cold War had continued, Spain would have invested in a newer carrier to replace the aging Cabot/Dedalo, making the Cabot surplus to requirements and increasing the likelihood that it would be sold back to the USA.

Anyway, if she did end up back in US service, I can see the Cabot or her afore-mentioned sister ships as being useful earlier in the war as a convoy escort, flying ASW helicopters (probably Sea Kings and/or Sea Sprites taken out of mothballs).

-

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Would the Cabot have been sold back to the USA by Spain in 1989 if the Cold War hadn't ended (in the v1 timeline)? If the Cold War had continued, I can see NATO pressuring Spain to keep her in service, perhaps even subsidizing her operating costs. Another way of the looking at it, though, is that if the Cold War had continued, Spain would have invested in a newer carrier to replace the aging Cabot/Dedalo, making the Cabot surplus to requirements and increasing the likelihood that it would be sold back to the USA.

Anyway, if she did end up back in US service, I can see the Cabot or her afore-mentioned sister ships as being useful earlier in the war as a convoy escort, flying ASW helicopters (probably Sea Kings and/or Sea Sprites taken out of mothballs).

-

I think thats the real question - in our timeline the Spanish built a replacement and retired the Dedalo which is how she ended up back in the US. But a V1 timeline where the Cold War never ended may have had her stay in reserve in Spain - in which case then it would be Oklahoma City that comes back from mothballs most likely.

The rest of the CVL's were long gone by either timeline - but given the losses to carriers the US took it would be very tempting to get her back into service at the very least to be an ASW or assault carrier - or even an aircraft transport.

[rcaf_777]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Would the Cabot have been sold back to the USA by Spain in 1989 if the Cold War hadn't ended (in the v1 timeline)? If the Cold War had continued, I can see NATO pressuring Spain to keep her in service, perhaps even subsidizing her operating costs.

By 1989 the Cabot has been in service for 47 years, and is the only ship of her class left in service in the world and considering that in 1988 the Príncipe de Asturias entered service with the Spanish Navy which is a new carrier. Why not return her to the US?

To quote MARAD directly "the National Defense Reserve Fleet consists of "mothballed" ships, mostly merchant vessels, that can be activated within 20 to 120 days to provide shipping for the United States of America during national emergencies, either military or non-military, such as commercial shipping crises."

The US Navy counterpart "A Naval Inactive Ship Maintenance Facility (NISMF) is a facility owned by the United States Navy as a holding facility for decommissioned naval vessels, pending determination of their final fate. All ships in these facilities are inactive, but some are still on the Naval Vessel Register (NVR), while others have been struck from that Register.

The ships that have been stricken from the NVR are disposed of by one of several means, including foreign military sale transfer, ship donation as a museum or memorial, domestic dismantling and recycling, artificial reefing, or use as a target vessel. Others are retention assets for possible future reactivation, which have been laid up for long-term preservation and are maintained with minimal maintenance (humidity control, corrosion control, flood/fire watch) should they need to be recalled to active duty."

according to the Navy’s 30-Year Shipbuilding Plan to Congress for Fiscal Year 2016, The Navy has been reducing the number of inactive ships, which numbered as many as 195 in 1997, but was down to 49 by the end of 2014.

[shrike6]

The Cabot could have also have been used as an aircraft ferry ala USNS Card during the Vietnam war.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by shrike6

The Cabot could have also have been used as an aircraft ferry ala USNS Card during the Vietnam war.

Thats what I was thinking too - i.e. say you get her back in shape by 1996/early 1997 - you need to move helos to somewhere like Panama - the air transport fleet is going to be pretty busy by then. So what is a great way to get say a dozen Huey's down there or a half dozen UH-60's? Answer load them on Cabot and fly them off her deck.

And her engines were old WWII engines and the fuel she burns is a lot more available than using a crap load of jet fuel to fly them down a couple at a time. Let alone the wear and tear on the air frames of the transports.

[shrike6]

As far as the CLG-9 is concerned I don't see it being viable to reactivate. No other ships use 6" guns. So you're either going to have to start an assembly line for just 6' ammo for a single ship or replace that turret with other armaments. Lets not forget about the thing that makes it a CLG the Talos missile launcher. The last time a Talos missile was fired was by the OKC herself 18 years before. So that system needs to be replaced. Let alone that you need to replace some of the bofors with phalanx to give it some kind of close in defense.