kato13
09-10-2008, 04:51 AM
Matt Wiser 07-08-2008, 09:53 PM Has anyone been watching Futureweapons on the Military Channel? I was watching an episode last night and one long gun featured was a 6.8mm assault rifle from Barrett Firearms (the same Barrett which gave us the M-82 .50 cal sniper's rifle), with many of the same features as the M-16/M-4 family. Not to mention a built-in attachment for a suppressor. Twice the stopping power of the 5.56 NATO round,too. Now to see if the weapon can overcome the mafia around the M-16 family to be adopted by the U.S. military.
Another episode featured a variant of the Stoner SR-25, which apparently has now been adopted by the Army as its new sniper rifle. This variant has a built-in suppressor. According to the show, the weapon is in field evaluation, with formal introduction in 2009.
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kato13 07-08-2008, 10:12 PM one long gun featured was a 6.8mm assault rifle from Barrett Firearms
I really like this weapon (the 6.8mm Barrett)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M468
I switched my Morrow Teams over to this a little over a year ago.
Does anyone know if there have been any attempts for a M249 SAW conversion to 6.8mm (My research as of a year ago did not find any). I would really like my Morrow teams to use as few calibers as possible.
I think the new 6.5mm works better as linked ammo in existing systems so that might drive any caliber choice in the future.
edit typo
edit clarified that I am in fact a 6.8mm supporter
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Targan 07-08-2008, 11:59 PM There have been several discussions on 6.8mm SPC and 6.5mm Grendel on this forum and the 93 Games Studio Twilight: 2013 forum over the last couple of years. I very much like the look and the stats of the Barrett 6.8mm rifle, and there is at least one prototype SPR 6.8mm rifle in my campaign (one of the early ones built from a first gen M16 lower receiver and a prototype upper receiver).
6.5mm Grendel fanboys, in my experience, simply will not listen to reason and insist that round is the way to go, despite evidence showing that it is much harder to modify m16 type receivers and mags to fire the round. Yes 6.5mm Grendel is superior ballistically to 6.8mm SPC but damn, son! So much easier to use existing receivers and mags to make 6.8mm weapons.
Go on then Grendel fan boys, flame me. I will not be disuaded from my view.
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pmulcahy 07-09-2008, 10:29 AM Targan's right; it's much easier to convert an existing 5.56mm weapon to 6.8mm SPC -- and that's why, if the military (at least in the US) gets a rifle or SAW firing a new round, it will probably be 6.8mm SPC. The 6.5mm Grendel round is superior, but one of Murphy's Laws of Combat is very true: "Remember, your weapon was built by the lowest bidder."
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kato13 07-09-2008, 02:25 PM I spent a lot of time looking for a rechambered M249 in any of the new calibers. This was the closest I found
http://thedonovan.com/archives/gunstuff/12_fa02.pdf
(photo caption page 2)
"Low cost options for improving performance over the 5.56x45mm round (left), are the 6x45mm (center), and 6.5x42mm MPC (right). These cartridges are compatible with 5.56mm magazines and bolts, M27 metallic links, and the M249 feed mechanism."
(photo caption page 3)
"Figure 6 — The 6x45mm (not shown) and the 6.5mm MPC, seen here plugged into standard M27 links and positioned on an M249 feed tray, essentially require only a barrel change for conversion of the LMG. However, the 6.8mm SPC and 6.5mm Grendel, need a new series of links designed and manufactured, and the M249 feed mechanism modified."
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Twilight2000V3 07-27-2008, 02:39 PM Well I dont know how much of a conversion difference there is between the 6.8 and the 6.5 G.
Both require a different magazine, bolt, and barrel. Nothing else. This is, ofcourse, for the M16/M4 series.
I'm sure FN can make kits to convert the M-249, or better yet, the new MK48 LMG. As far as links go, that is REALLY a minimal expendature and there are links that Im sure will work.
I'm a fan of the 6.5 G for sure. BUt I've also heard from a close friend that is still involved in the SF community that the 6.8 is not performing as well as they beleived.
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Targan 07-28-2008, 12:21 AM Well I dont know how much of a conversion difference there is between the 6.8 and the 6.5 G.
Both require a different magazine, bolt, and barrel. Nothing else. This is, ofcourse, for the M16/M4 series.You don't need a new magazine for 6.8mm SPC, you can modify the standard M-16 mag with very little difficulty.
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pmulcahy 07-28-2008, 12:48 AM You don't need a new magazine for 6.8mm SPC, you can modify the standard M-16 mag with very little difficulty.
You just need a different follower and feed spring. You just remove the one for 5.56mm, and slide in the one for 6.8mm SPC.
I was just re-reading the 2006 issue of Book of the AR-15, and one of the articles said that a 6.5mm Grendel magazine has to be a bit wider than a 5.56mm magazine due to the shape of the case -- a 6.5mm round almost looks like a short magnum round. The bullet doesn't seat very far into the case (it's rather long), but the case is relatively short and wide. 6.5mm Grendel magazines also have slightly less curve in them -- also due to the shape of the round.
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Another episode featured a variant of the Stoner SR-25, which apparently has now been adopted by the Army as its new sniper rifle. This variant has a built-in suppressor. According to the show, the weapon is in field evaluation, with formal introduction in 2009.
********************
kato13 07-08-2008, 10:12 PM one long gun featured was a 6.8mm assault rifle from Barrett Firearms
I really like this weapon (the 6.8mm Barrett)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M468
I switched my Morrow Teams over to this a little over a year ago.
Does anyone know if there have been any attempts for a M249 SAW conversion to 6.8mm (My research as of a year ago did not find any). I would really like my Morrow teams to use as few calibers as possible.
I think the new 6.5mm works better as linked ammo in existing systems so that might drive any caliber choice in the future.
edit typo
edit clarified that I am in fact a 6.8mm supporter
********************
Targan 07-08-2008, 11:59 PM There have been several discussions on 6.8mm SPC and 6.5mm Grendel on this forum and the 93 Games Studio Twilight: 2013 forum over the last couple of years. I very much like the look and the stats of the Barrett 6.8mm rifle, and there is at least one prototype SPR 6.8mm rifle in my campaign (one of the early ones built from a first gen M16 lower receiver and a prototype upper receiver).
6.5mm Grendel fanboys, in my experience, simply will not listen to reason and insist that round is the way to go, despite evidence showing that it is much harder to modify m16 type receivers and mags to fire the round. Yes 6.5mm Grendel is superior ballistically to 6.8mm SPC but damn, son! So much easier to use existing receivers and mags to make 6.8mm weapons.
Go on then Grendel fan boys, flame me. I will not be disuaded from my view.
********************
pmulcahy 07-09-2008, 10:29 AM Targan's right; it's much easier to convert an existing 5.56mm weapon to 6.8mm SPC -- and that's why, if the military (at least in the US) gets a rifle or SAW firing a new round, it will probably be 6.8mm SPC. The 6.5mm Grendel round is superior, but one of Murphy's Laws of Combat is very true: "Remember, your weapon was built by the lowest bidder."
********************
kato13 07-09-2008, 02:25 PM I spent a lot of time looking for a rechambered M249 in any of the new calibers. This was the closest I found
http://thedonovan.com/archives/gunstuff/12_fa02.pdf
(photo caption page 2)
"Low cost options for improving performance over the 5.56x45mm round (left), are the 6x45mm (center), and 6.5x42mm MPC (right). These cartridges are compatible with 5.56mm magazines and bolts, M27 metallic links, and the M249 feed mechanism."
(photo caption page 3)
"Figure 6 — The 6x45mm (not shown) and the 6.5mm MPC, seen here plugged into standard M27 links and positioned on an M249 feed tray, essentially require only a barrel change for conversion of the LMG. However, the 6.8mm SPC and 6.5mm Grendel, need a new series of links designed and manufactured, and the M249 feed mechanism modified."
********************
Twilight2000V3 07-27-2008, 02:39 PM Well I dont know how much of a conversion difference there is between the 6.8 and the 6.5 G.
Both require a different magazine, bolt, and barrel. Nothing else. This is, ofcourse, for the M16/M4 series.
I'm sure FN can make kits to convert the M-249, or better yet, the new MK48 LMG. As far as links go, that is REALLY a minimal expendature and there are links that Im sure will work.
I'm a fan of the 6.5 G for sure. BUt I've also heard from a close friend that is still involved in the SF community that the 6.8 is not performing as well as they beleived.
********************
Targan 07-28-2008, 12:21 AM Well I dont know how much of a conversion difference there is between the 6.8 and the 6.5 G.
Both require a different magazine, bolt, and barrel. Nothing else. This is, ofcourse, for the M16/M4 series.You don't need a new magazine for 6.8mm SPC, you can modify the standard M-16 mag with very little difficulty.
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pmulcahy 07-28-2008, 12:48 AM You don't need a new magazine for 6.8mm SPC, you can modify the standard M-16 mag with very little difficulty.
You just need a different follower and feed spring. You just remove the one for 5.56mm, and slide in the one for 6.8mm SPC.
I was just re-reading the 2006 issue of Book of the AR-15, and one of the articles said that a 6.5mm Grendel magazine has to be a bit wider than a 5.56mm magazine due to the shape of the case -- a 6.5mm round almost looks like a short magnum round. The bullet doesn't seat very far into the case (it's rather long), but the case is relatively short and wide. 6.5mm Grendel magazines also have slightly less curve in them -- also due to the shape of the round.
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