Best system tp use for Morrow Project

[scholar rat]

If you didn't want to Use the Morrow Project rules. What would be the Best system for Morrow Project? and why?

[Matt W]

If you didn't want to Use the Morrow Project rules. What would be the Best system for Morrow Project? and why?

I've run TMP with a slightly-modified White Wolf system. This was for a group that had never even SEEN a percentage-based system (but knew the WoD system). I had to design the character sheet but - after that - they could produce a character in minutes and start playing immediately.

Don't get me wrong, I like the % system. But you have to tailor your game to your 'audience' and this is a god thing. It can give you new ideas.

For example, if anyone has the time and money, I recommend picking up a copy of the 'Jeremiah' RPG (based on the TV series) it's GOOD - even if it is the D20 system. and its supplement 'Thunder Mountain' could easily replace the TMP Prime Base module

[Bravo04Tango]

I had recently given thought to using the R Talsorian "Interlok System". A good, simple system that is Fire Arms heavy and has good vehicular combat rules. But I've also been playing Call Of Cthulu which uses the base for the 3rd edition rules ( with the role playing supplement)for TMP. The group I'm running for would be VERY familiar with both rules sets but have a preference for the CoC/TMP rules.

[jdrakeh]

I'm going to say GURPS, as that's what I'm leaning toward using. That said, I think that both Terminus V from Scorpion's Nest Tactical Gaming and the old Phoenix Command rules from Leading Edge Games would work well. GURPS is simply easier to get a hold of.

[jdrakeh]

I had recently given thought to using the R Talsorian "Interlok System". A good, simple system that is Fire Arms heavy and has good vehicular combat rules. But I've also been playing Call Of Cthulu which uses the base for the 3rd edition rules ( with the role playing supplement)for TMP. The group I'm running for would be VERY familiar with both rules sets but have a preference for the CoC/TMP rules.

Call of Cthulhu actually uses Chaosium's Basic Roleplaying system, a system that came from Runequest (published in 1978), not TMP (published in 1980).

[nuke11]

I use most of the weapons system from The Delta Force RPG (Task Force Games) with some of TMP characters rules.

I found it was very easy to port TDF rules into TMP world.

[nuke11]

I've run TMP with a slightly-modified White Wolf system. This was for a group that had never even SEEN a percentage-based system (but knew the WoD system). I had to design the character sheet but - after that - they could produce a character in minutes and start playing immediately.

Don't get me wrong, I like the % system. But you have to tailor your game to your 'audience' and this is a god thing. It can give you new ideas.

For example, if anyone has the time and money, I recommend picking up a copy of the 'Jeremiah' RPG (based on the TV series) it's GOOD - even if it is the D20 system. and its supplement 'Thunder Mountain' could easily replace the TMP Prime Base module
I have the RPG in hard copy, but am looking at purchasing a soft copy of Thunder Mountain, what is included in the book? Plans of the base that sort of thing?

[Matt W]

I have the RPG in hard copy, but am looking at purchasing a soft copy of Thunder Mountain, what is included in the book? Plans of the base that sort of thing?

'that sort of thing' AND MORE.... a quick look at my copy....


Plans/description of base
Description of various towns (mentioned in the TV series)
New feats & skills (this section looks quite useful if you're looking for D20 rules on lots of the skills needed by Morrow Project PCs)
New Equipment/weapons (includes aircraft, heavy weapons & artillery)
New rues (basically air & vehicle combat)
Advanced Class (Demagogue)
Stats for all the main characters in the TV series (and several minor)
A mini-adventure "life in the new world"

[clivegh]

We have been running a campaign for about a year now, and are in the process of making a D20 Version of MP.

Its interesting as D20 Modern is an OGL so you can get about 80% of the rule book just from the Wizards of the Coast Site (and its legal).

We have looked at thunder Mountain, Blood and Guts, Afghanistan D20, Grim and Gritty 4.0, and ADCOM Systems for D20 to make combat both deadly but true to the MP style.

In the End we are testing a Hybrid approach of Grim and Gritty (Players only have CON in HPS and gain 1 or 2 HP per level and ADCOM (Hit locations).

It means that players do Were Body Armor can survie getting shot, But with the Wound Categories from Grim and Gritty (Thunder Mt / Jeremiah) , its easy to deal with.

All the Docs are on Google Docs right now as we are still putting it together.

We all own TMP and plan to buy the new version when it comes out, We just want something that allows the players to pick career paths better (Feats and Skills). Moving to D20 also allows a Huge amount of material to be used in the campaign as there is a TON of D20 stuff out there.

[nuke11]

'that sort of thing' AND MORE.... a quick look at my copy....


Plans/description of base
Description of various towns (mentioned in the TV series)
New feats & skills (this section looks quite useful if you're looking for D20 rules on lots of the skills needed by Morrow Project PCs)
New Equipment/weapons (includes aircraft, heavy weapons & artillery)
New rues (basically air & vehicle combat)
Advanced Class (Demagogue)
Stats for all the main characters in the TV series (and several minor)
A mini-adventure "life in the new world"


Thank you. I'll purchase a PDF copy of it tonight.

[nuke11]

We have been running a campaign for about a year now, and are in the process of making a D20 Version of MP.

Its interesting as D20 Modern is an OGL so you can get about 80% of the rule book just from the Wizards of the Coast Site (and its legal).

We have looked at thunder Mountain, Blood and Guts, Afghanistan D20, Grim and Gritty 4.0, and ADCOM Systems for D20 to make combat both deadly but true to the MP style.

In the End we are testing a Hybrid approach of Grim and Gritty (Players only have CON in HPS and gain 1 or 2 HP per level and ADCOM (Hit locations).

It means that players do Were Body Armor can survie getting shot, But with the Wound Categories from Grim and Gritty (Thunder Mt / Jeremiah) , its easy to deal with.

All the Docs are on Google Docs right now as we are still putting it together.

We all own TMP and plan to buy the new version when it comes out, We just want something that allows the players to pick career paths better (Feats and Skills). Moving to D20 also allows a Huge amount of material to be used in the campaign as there is a TON of D20 stuff out there.

It does sound interesting, I never played much in the d20 game systems. Original D&D is where I started but never advanced much beyond that, when "newer" systems came out.

I looked up Afghanistan D20 and it looks interesting to read its background, does it really need D&D Players Handbook 3rd edition? That is hard to get now that the 4th edition seems to be out.

[clivegh]

You can go to wizards of the coast and get the D20 Modern downloads for free as its all in the Open Source License.

[nuke11]

You can go to wizards of the coast and get the D20 Modern downloads for free as its all in the Open Source License.
Ok it took a bit or searching but I found the core rules and searching my computer I found I have a few other d20 downloads from a few years back.

[clivegh]

We could use as much feedback or ideas as you have!

Just give my an IM or message (AOL IM clivegh) and I will get you on our google Docs for the Conversion project. Any feedback is always welcomed.

Thanks!

Clive

[Owen E Oulton]

I find that any system Richard Tucholka had his hand in to be hopelessly clunky. I also own Fringeworty and FTL:whatever-the-number-is and they are both almost unplayable. I've met Rich and like him, but he can't write a simple game system to save his soul. Like many others, I find v2.2 Twilight: 2000 to be the best system around for any after-the-apocalypse game. I just substitute MP training for the "war term" and away we go. I've tossed out the "war" and substituted a Y2K on steroids as my disaster, and set the team in my old stomping grounds of the Annapolis Valley, Nova Scotia, with a reborn Nazi Party as the big villain. I've given them a bit of steampunk-style technology, like the Indy Jones Flying Wing and light Star Wars walkers to make them distinctive, but nothing an MP shouldn't be able to handle. I've also settled on a new weapons set for the MP, including the Steyr AUG, Glock pistols and the MP5 SMG, just to make them more interesting and a bit more fin-du-siecle.

[pfloyd]

My first answer would be either HERO System or GURPS, since it's eay to set up packages or templates...
I even tried to create an MP variant using the Millennium's End system from Chameleon Eclectic. (How I miss that game!)

Now my current thinking is, if one was to do it with d20, use the rules and classes from Stargate SG1.
----------------
Now playing: Nightwish - Wishmaster (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/nightwish/track/wishmaster)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

[Targan]

I even tried to create an MP variant using the Millennium's End system from Chameleon Eclectic. (How I miss that game!)

Great game. I miss it too.

[Matt W]

A very variant Project Phoenix character sheet (http://morrow-industries.com/morrow-project-blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/PHOENIXNWODSHEET2.pdf)

[Project Olympus Rising]

Might I suggest (for people more interested in the setting than in the "crunch") a "light" rules set up like the old Star Frontiers game? Fast playing and abstract so you don't get bogged down in the "nuts and bolts".

If you don't own it already (being OOP), there is an excellent fan-pro "tweak" and repackaging available here: http://www.starfrontiersman.com/downloads/remastered

I'd also recommend dl-ling all 14-15 issues of their fanzine for SF as well, as it has expanded equipment lists/details and new rules, etc.

[knightofrubus]

Guess I wasn't the only one looking around. I would think tk2000 is the most viable option to keep tone but as I've seen in this thread I might be quite wrong in that sense. That said it has my vote if just due to GDW having done the footwork by creating a few more 'gonzo' settings that give examples in the same ruleset for stuff like advanced technology, weird critters and even the odd dinosaur.

[gamerguy]

tk2000, do you mean twilight 2000 or something else?

[knightofrubus]

Twilight 2000. Sorry I might have the abbreviation mixed up!

[gamerguy]

No problems, I am not familiar enough to know all the ways it might be written.

Out of curiosity what aspects do you like of the system? Again I am unfamiliar with twilight although I know MP reasonably well, or at least the version for 1980.

[knightofrubus]

Honestly it hits a nice level of granularity while still being a game that's reasonably playable. It also has most of the details filled in already in terms of specific gear and tone with minimal work.

[cosmicfish]

Along time ago, I ran a TMP campaign using GURPS. Partly this was for the versatility and playability, but one feature that really drew me to it was the way the Project could be implemented using tech levels. In particular, the 3e Vehicles supplement offered a great play-balanved way of producing Project vehicles and seeing how they would fare against 20th century technology.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Along time ago, I ran a TMP campaign using GURPS. Partly this was for the versatility and playability, but one feature that really drew me to it was the way the Project could be implemented using tech levels. In particular, the 3e Vehicles supplement offered a great play-balanved way of producing Project vehicles and seeing how they would fare against 20th century technology.
I can understand that because on the surface, the Twilight: 2000 system does not seem to address any tech difference unless you're talking about the variation in 20th century technology. Even then, it doesn't really consider anything much more than vehicles and weapons. There's no real treatment of communications technology, aircraft tech levels, power generation or even medical technology levels.

However, if you use the Traveller: The New Era books, you get a much better treatment of differing tech levels while staying on the familiar turf of the GDW rules system. Part of the Traveller: TNE world history involves a devastating apocalypse that threw some planets back to more primitive tech levels, part of it is because the PCs can be expected to land on planets that have not advanced to the same tech level as the PCs.

[gbmaz]

I have recently become interested in doing a Cepheus Engine (open source Traveler) conversion. I was working on a conversion of Cepheus Modern (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/272590/Cepheus-Modern) but there is now a guy on the Cepheus Engine Facebook group doing a conversion that is specifically geared to use with a Morrow Project of Twilight 2000 setting.

It looks interesting so far and he definitely "gets" Morrow Project and just wants a system that gives more than just a crunchy combat system.

Cepheus Engine has a small but strong community playing and developing for it. There is a crunchier conversions called Cepheus Modern War that is worth a look as well. It is really focused on small unit combat (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/304503/Modern-War).

Definitely worth a look. Cepheus Modern is "Pay What You Want".

[nuke11]

If anyone has this game from Task Force Games The Delta Force, it's rules, combat system and weapons can be directly used in TMP with very little modifications what so ever.

I was surprised when I realized that weapon's stats for Penetration directly match the E-Factor from TMP weapons. If you look at the stats for the weapons they are as detailed as TMP.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

I have recently become interested in doing a Cepheus Engine (open source Traveler) conversion. I was working on a conversion of Cepheus Modern (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/272590/Cepheus-Modern) but there is now a guy on the Cepheus Engine Facebook group doing a conversion that is specifically geared to use with a Morrow Project of Twilight 2000 setting.

It looks interesting so far and he definitely "gets" Morrow Project and just wants a system that gives more than just a crunchy combat system.

Cepheus Engine has a small but strong community playing and developing for it. There is a crunchier conversions called Cepheus Modern War that is worth a look as well. It is really focused on small unit combat (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/304503/Modern-War).

Definitely worth a look. Cepheus Modern is "Pay What You Want".

I've had a very brief look at Cepheus rules and while I know it's based on the original Traveller rules, does it deal with tech level differences? I've never played any games that use the Cepheus Engine and while I think the system is pretty good, if it doesn't take tech levels into account, that's a deal breaker for me when it comes to using it for TMP.

[nuke11]

I haven't bought these yet, but they look interesting.

Doomsday Soldiers https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/324436/Doomsday-Soldier?src=newest&filters=10134_0_0_0_0

Cepheus Atom https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/324514/Cepheus-Atom?src=hottest_filtered&filters=10134_0_0_0_0

[rob]

If the MP 4th rules weren't used, I would use the Harnmaster Core rules. Excellent for mundane things like negotiating, huunting, etc. Firearms and explosive rules would have to be developed. Easy enough though.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

If the MP 4th rules weren't used, I would use the Harnmaster Core rules. Excellent for mundane things like negotiating, huunting, etc. Firearms and explosive rules would have to be developed. Easy enough though.
Rob, you may want to throw some questions at Targan (https://forum.juhlin.com/member.php?u=35) (who is on the Twilight: 2000 forum). He ran a Twilight: 2000 game for some years using a Harnmaster set of rules updated for firearms. The system was created by Bill Gant and called Gunmaster.
His website is defunct now but it can still be visited at: -
https://web.archive.org/web/20080217022212/http://www.warflail.com:80/harn/index.html#GMG

I tested a few of the links on the archived page and they still work so I am assuming that they all work. It appears that all the basic info you may want is on that page.
However, if you want to discuss it with someone who actually ran it, then Targan is the person you want to talk to.

[knightofrubus]

Out of curiosity. What are tweaks folk have made to their games rules wise? As at its core I rather like 4ths rules but I keep feeling like it is either lacking something or needs to be pared down on some aspects. Maybe that's me being from that newer school of rpgs but I keep thinking of little tweaks and changes that could be done.

Also does anyone have any advice for running the game using t2k 2.2?

[knightofrubus]

So has anyone used the new edition of twilight 2000 for a game yet?

[Ursus Maior]

So has anyone used the new edition of twilight 2000 for a game yet?

Yes, I did a single scenario as a prequel to "Escape from Kalisz" in 2-3 sessions. I introduced the setting, we had a couple of encounters and fights and some hard decisions to make. In the end, we narrated the demise of the 5th ID and talked about it.

End of this month, we're going to meet for a proper session 0 for a full campaign.