OT: Whiskey, Etc.

[Webstral]

As I stocked up for having my Irish-American and African-American family over for Thanksgiving, a horrible thought occurred to me. In 2000, where is the whiskey going to come from? Who's going to have enough grain to distill it?

For that matter, what will do without tea and coffee? I suppose there is some hope that a few of the communities along the East and Gulf Coasts will be able to obtain some from Brazil through the remnants of maritime trade, but the near-complete disruption of the overland trade networks will mean that folks in the Western states (and probably almost all of the other ones, too) will go without tea and coffee for a long, long time.

Oh, the horror! The horror!

Webstral

[pmulcahy11b]

As I stocked up for having my Irish-American and African-American family over for Thanksgiving, a horrible thought occurred to me. In 2000, where is the whiskey going to come from? Who's going to have enough grain to distill it?

For that matter, what will do without tea and coffee? I suppose there is some hope that a few of the communities along the East and Gulf Coasts will be able to obtain some from Brazil through the remnants of maritime trade, but the near-complete disruption of the overland trade networks will mean that folks in the Western states (and probably almost all of the other ones, too) will go without tea and coffee for a long, long time.

Oh, the horror! The horror!

Webstral

I guess that's called being SOL. I'd have a worse time -- what would I do without Pepsi!

[jester]

Oh the horror! The horror! I now have visions of masses of unique youth in places like Portland and Seattle lost in a daze, jonesing for their fix. And leagions of baristas wander the countryside like the 100 ronin, without purpose causing havoc.

On a serious note,

Tea can be made from any number of herbs and plants. Coffee can be made from substituites such as chickory, burnt grain, or roasted acorns and even dandelion roots dried and roasted.

And you mention the Gulf Coasts don't forget that Coffee is produced in the Caribean and Mexico too. So, it should be available in and around the East Coast, Gulf Coast, Southern Border.

As I think about this, the Gateway to the Spanish Main module, the ship patrols the area in the Caribean and West Africa, again a good trade route where one could put in a cargo of coffee and rum and sugar from the Caribean, and even Tea from Africa and I would imagine some manufactured goods from the US.

Also, with the hop around Central and S. America you could probably pick up some food stuffs as well.

And lets not forget durring the California Goldrush and even the lumber rush in the 19th century many ships would sail up and down the West Coast of the US to Panama in about a week. So, a couple sailing ships working up and down the West Coast hitting Mexico and other portions of Central America they could easily pick up coffee from such places and bring them back to the west coast cities, and again rum would be available as well :)


Now, that also leads me to think that within a year or two after things fall apart and fuel being unavailable old clipper type ships will be refitted and pressed into service as well as larger pleasure sailboats and most likely a new cottage industry of newly made wooden schooner and clipper type sailing craft craft for coastal trade.

So, fear not Web, coffee will be available.

[headquarters]

at an equivalent of 1000 US dollars a cup :D

I think erzats coffee made from roasted peas etc will be possible .Thats what they made do with here during the 5 year nazi occupation -no line to the Caribeean open !

They also made shoes from fish skin .Yes- dried and cured fish "hides"..

all IMHO -of course

ps good point about out of work cranky barristas being the hordes of marauders out to pillage and burn..hairdos already in place :D just add nmachete and sawed off 12 gage..kidding

Heavens know I have poured enough cups my self during my studies to pay my way .I still dislike people ordering cappucinos.Such a hassel to make .

Oh the horror! The horror! I now have visions of masses of unique youth in places like Portland and Seattle lost in a daze, jonesing for their fix. And leagions of baristas wander the countryside like the 100 ronin, without purpose causing havoc.

On a serious note,

Tea can be made from any number of herbs and plants. Coffee can be made from substituites such as chickory, burnt grain, or roasted acorns and even dandelion roots dried and roasted.

And you mention the Gulf Coasts don't forget that Coffee is produced in the Caribean and Mexico too. So, it should be available in and around the East Coast, Gulf Coast, Southern Border.

As I think about this, the Gateway to the Spanish Main module, the ship patrols the area in the Caribean and West Africa, again a good trade route where one could put in a cargo of coffee and rum and sugar from the Caribean, and even Tea from Africa and I would imagine some manufactured goods from the US.

Also, with the hop around Central and S. America you could probably pick up some food stuffs as well.

And lets not forget durring the California Goldrush and even the lumber rush in the 19th century many ships would sail up and down the West Coast of the US to Panama in about a week. So, a couple sailing ships working up and down the West Coast hitting Mexico and other portions of Central America they could easily pick up coffee from such places and bring them back to the west coast cities, and again rum would be available as well :)


Now, that also leads me to think that within a year or two after things fall apart and fuel being unavailable old clipper type ships will be refitted and pressed into service as well as larger pleasure sailboats and most likely a new cottage industry of newly made wooden schooner and clipper type sailing craft craft for coastal trade.

So, fear not Web, coffee will be available.

[Targan]

They also made shoes from fish skin .Yes- dried and cured fish "hides".
There is a company here in Australia that makes high quality leather from fish skins. Also eel skins.

[Canadian Army]

Coffee can be made from substitutes such as chickory, burnt grain, or roasted acorns and even dandelion roots dried and roasted.

I had a roommate who drank chickory for awhile, she was trying kick her coffee addiction; the chickory stank up our kitchen really bad when it was brewed.

[Caradhras]

Lots of substitutes and home-brews would grow no doubt. Dandelion coffee is really good imo too.

I love Jester's idea of trade routes with clippers/sailing ships giving a potential campaign for a T2K group as either pirates or traders.

[pmulcahy11b]

I had a roommate who drank chickory for awhile, she was trying kick her coffee addiction; the chickory stank up our kitchen really bad when it was brewed.

Confederate troops during the Civil War often drank chickory; they felt that it was awful, but better than nothing.

[Legbreaker]

Lots of substitutes and home-brews would grow no doubt. Dandelion coffee is really good imo too.

Dandelion beer is apparently pretty good too I hear.

[Mohoender]

Confederate troops during the Civil War often drank chickory; they felt that it was awful, but better than nothing.

During WW2, people in Europe did that too and felt the same. Strangely they kept drinking chickory after the war was over.

[pmulcahy11b]

During WW2, people in Europe did that too and felt the same. Strangely they kept drinking chickory after the war was over.

I am right now watching a show about the history of coffee on the History Channel. It seems that a rare, but really nifty item amongst Union troops was a rifle or carbine with a coffee mill built into the buttstock. Now that's the mark of an addiction!

[Mohoender]

I am right now watching a show about the history of coffee on the History Channel. It seems that a rare, but really nifty item amongst Union troops was a rifle or carbine with a coffee mill built into the buttstock. Now that's the mark of an addiction!

Or an early use of an enhancement drug.;)

[Cdnwolf]

Nestle still makes coffee with chicory..

http://www.nestle.ca/en/products/brands/Nescafe/encore.htm?subGroup=

[jester]

I am right now watching a show about the history of coffee on the History Channel. It seems that a rare, but really nifty item amongst Union troops was a rifle or carbine with a coffee mill built into the buttstock. Now that's the mark of an addiction!


Paul how dare you! Being a former member of the not so light infantry you should know the joy of having tools that do double duty in order to save weight and bulk.

And per the majority of the reinactors and historians that I know, ALL rifle butts were coffee grinders. It involved taking the metal buttplate and commming down hard on the bag of coffee and then several up and down chops with the buttplate and then grinding it so one crushed the beans where they were then tossed into the coffee pot or tin cup.

I have seen it done and i have even tasted the coffee. And trust me boys, it does not taste like regular coffee even the stuff you grind yourself.

[pmulcahy11b]

I wouldn't know, Jester -- I hate coffee. Nonetheless, I took a can with me to the field; I could get a lot in trade for a little coffee!

[Cdnwolf]

I wouldn't know, Jester -- I hate coffee. Nonetheless, I took a can with me to the field; I could get a lot in trade for a little coffee!

HEATHEN!!! In Canada coffee is king. You can spit without hitting a Tim Hortons coffee franchise!! Ahhh heavenly nectar of the gods!!

[jester]

I wouldn't know, Jester -- I hate coffee. Nonetheless, I took a can with me to the field; I could get a lot in trade for a little coffee!

I never drank coffee until after I got out and went to college in the Pacific Northwest. Although durring the Desert I did chew the instant coffee packs then again the foil on a filling may have done just as much to keep me awake than the coffee.

And as a fellow not so light infantry type shame on you for humping something you didn't use! Shame shame shame!

However, you do get "Peter-san" points for being an entrapanuer and scrounger. Oh the dilema! Should you be priased or chastized? I will sleep on it ;)

[pmulcahy11b]

And as a fellow not so light infantry type shame on you for humping something you didn't use! Shame shame shame!

However, you do get "Peter-san" points for being an entrapanuer and scrounger. Oh the dilema! Should you be priased or chastized? I will sleep on it ;)

Hey, I did use it! I'll take the "Peter-san."

[jester]

Hey, I did use it! I'll take the "Peter-san."

And what other goodies did you sell? I pimped out a couple pages of penthouse :) Ah one of my claims to fame :)

[TiggerCCW UK]

I wouldn't know, Jester -- I hate coffee. Nonetheless, I took a can with me to the field; I could get a lot in trade for a little coffee!

Wash your mouth out for saying such a thing :D

[TiggerCCW UK]

You can spit without hitting a Tim Hortons coffee franchise!!

They're taking over the world C-Wolf - I pass two on my way to work here in Belfast. Never tried them though - I stick to Clements, but they have to be better than Starbucks :)

[pmulcahy11b]

Wash your mouth out for saying such a thing :D

As long as its not with coffee...

[weswood]

C'mom, now, give Paul a break about the coffee. Every one knows he's not right in the head, he was a paratrooper!:D

[pmulcahy11b]

C'mom, now, give Paul a break about the coffee. Every one knows he's not right in the head, he was a paratrooper!:D

I object strongly to that!

I wasn't right in the head even before I enlisted...

[Webstral]

Chickory and dandelions! Good thinking, gentlemen. Both have uses other than making coffee, so it's two bites of the same cherry, so to speak. I'm wondering whether I should incorporate chickory cultivation into SAMAD or have someone else relatively local grow it as a pseudo cash crop for trade with SAMAD. The latter is more interesting, I think. Also, if someone outside SAMAD is growing chickory at least partially for trade as a coffee substitute, the reemergence of a trade economy may be further facilitated thereby.

Dandelion beer is new to me. I've heard of dandelion wine. My father had a neighbor who used to make it when my father was a kid. Apparently, it can be pretty strong and not too hard on the tongue. The dandelion is appearing ever-more desirable: leaves as a superior leafy green, flowers for wine, and roots for ersatz coffee. I'll have to incorporate dandelion cultivation into the surviving New England areas. (Obviously, the dandelion will be useful everywhere, but I'm not going to impose it on any area I haven't addressed in my writing.)

Webstral

[Legbreaker]

Cultivate!? They grow all through my lawn as weeds!
Can't get rid of the damn things!

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Have you looked at farming rabbits and even hamsters and guinea pigs for both meat and fur. Relatively easy to house, don't require a lot of room, don't require a lot of feed in comparison, they breed fast and can effectively be managed by a small family (although guinea pigs can be sensitive to a few environmental factors like heat)?

Chickory and dandelions! Good thinking, gentlemen. Both have uses other than making coffee, so it's two bites of the same cherry, so to speak. I'm wondering whether I should incorporate chickory cultivation into SAMAD or have someone else relatively local grow it as a pseudo cash crop for trade with SAMAD. The latter is more interesting, I think. Also, if someone outside SAMAD is growing chickory at least partially for trade as a coffee substitute, the reemergence of a trade economy may be further facilitated thereby.

Dandelion beer is new to me. I've heard of dandelion wine. My father had a neighbor who used to make it when my father was a kid. Apparently, it can be pretty strong and not too hard on the tongue. The dandelion is appearing ever-more desirable: leaves as a superior leafy green, flowers for wine, and roots for ersatz coffee. I'll have to incorporate dandelion cultivation into the surviving New England areas. (Obviously, the dandelion will be useful everywhere, but I'm not going to impose it on any area I haven't addressed in my writing.)

Webstral

[Snake Eyes]

Have you looked at farming rabbits and even hamsters and guinea pigs for both meat and fur. Relatively easy to house, don't require a lot of room, don't require a lot of feed in comparison, they breed fast and can effectively be managed by a small family (although guinea pigs can be sensitive to a few environmental factors like heat)?

Evidently, the Swedes are having quite a go at burning them for fuel (http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1941230,00.html), too.

[Targan]

And it is only a short step from burning bunnies for fuel to burning corpses. As I have mentioned before, fallen enemies could be used as biofuel. Of course, you'd have to be a pretty cold, detached freak to do that, but there is no shortage of such folk in the T2K universe.

[pmulcahy11b]

Cultivate!? They grow all through my lawn as weeds!
Can't get rid of the damn things!

That makes me think of something -- all those suburban lawns may be full of weeds in T2K, some which may be useful.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

That makes me think of something -- all those suburban lawns may be full of weeds in T2K, some which may be useful.

Although this is starting to sound like it should be in the survival skills thread, there is a very definite plus in what you suggest. Many plants we consider weeds now have other uses that we in our modern age have simply forgotten. Another area that isn't exploited much these days in the Western World is rocks/minerals.

Sounds daft at first but consider the benefits of having a stockpile of rocks, they may be talc, sulphur, graphite, flint and so on. Anyone passing by just sees a pile of rocks lying around the place and would think they are useless. But all of those mentioned have uses that include being used as powders to slow/stop bleeding (minor wounds) to antiseptics (sulphur powder would be familiar to WW2 veterans from their first aid kits) making firestarters and so on.
There are many more but I don't know enough about it, these are just some of the things I half-remember from an article I read many years ago about life in the 1800s.

[Webstral]

Have you looked at farming rabbits and even hamsters and guinea pigs for both meat and fur. Relatively easy to house, don't require a lot of room, don't require a lot of feed in comparison, they breed fast and can effectively be managed by a small family (although guinea pigs can be sensitive to a few environmental factors like heat)?


Rabbits are also quite sensitive to heat. Many outdoor hutch rabbits die during the California summer, which is one reason we keep ours indoors year round. We had a thread on rabbit husbandry a little while back.

Webstral

[General Pain]

As I stocked up for having my Irish-American and African-American family over for Thanksgiving, a horrible thought occurred to me. In 2000, where is the whiskey going to come from? Who's going to have enough grain to distill it?

For that matter, what will do without tea and coffee? I suppose there is some hope that a few of the communities along the East and Gulf Coasts will be able to obtain some from Brazil through the remnants of maritime trade, but the near-complete disruption of the overland trade networks will mean that folks in the Western states (and probably almost all of the other ones, too) will go without tea and coffee for a long, long time.

Oh, the horror! The horror!

Webstral

I must admit I allready started stocking up on booze....;)

[Legbreaker]

I must admit I allready started stocking up on booze....;)

Of course your problem is the stock gets depleted as fast as it can be built up!

;)

[Webstral]

Of course your problem is the stock gets depleted as fast as it can be built up!

;)

To the degree one can call that a problem...

Webstral

[pmulcahy11b]

To the degree one can call that a problem...

Webstral

Though I'm a teetotaler, I would guess that the real problem would occur when you use up your stocks faster than they can be replaced...