Ireland/Northern Ireland Timeline

[Canadian Army]

A while back I wanted to do a campaign set in Ireland/Northern Ireland. So did some research: here is what I came up with for the Time-line:

Background 1990-1997 — The Irish Republican Army (IRA) was very active in Ireland in years leading up to Twilight; placing moles in two key places: Garda’s Special Branch, and the Royal Ulster Constabulary’s Special Branch. With those moles in place, the IRA was aware of British/Irish counter-terrorist efforts to detect, capture, and arrest IRA members. Moreover, Sinn Féin was elected to the Oireachtas (legislature of Ireland) and by 1997 had passed Fine Gael - The United Ireland Party; as the second largest party in Ireland. The IRA also became very active with the smuggling and stashing of arms caches in Ireland.

October 15 1997 — The IRA takes and holds the towns of Petigoe, Belleek, Belcoo, and Keady, with no regular army units available, the brunt of the offensive falls to the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) and the Army’s Home Defence Unit; the Ulster Defence Regiment.

October 25 1997 — The British offensive against the IRA begins with a with a helicopters assault on Petigoe. During the assault; five Chinook helicopters are shot down by the IRA; with SAM-7 Surface to Air missiles; resulting in the failing of the offensive. The British are forced to band all of their helicopters from combat zone and use armoured transport for the next assault.

October 31 1997 — The British offensive against Petigoe fails again; due to heavy RPG-7 fire by the IRA.

November 1 1997 — The IRA sink the HMS Helford, HMS Blackwater, HMS Itchen, HMS Orwell, and HMS Spey moored HM Naval Base Clyde; with 106mm Cannons mounted on motorboats.

November 2 1997 — Open warfare erupts between the Protestant Ulster Defence Association (UDA) and Catholic IRA in Northern Ireland; fighting begins in the streets of Belfast and Londonderry, and many Catholics and Protestants are killed or forced out in the ensuing violence. In the border counties of Fermanagh and Armagh, the IRA seized control and calls for military support and assistance from Ireland to protect Fermanagh and Armagh from the Protestant forces.

November 3 1997 — Elements of 2 Brigade; Óglaigh na hÉireann (Irish Defence Forces) moved into the border counties; the 2nd Irish Civil War begins.

November 4 1997 — The British Armed Forces destroy the main elements of the Aer Chór na hÉireann (Irish Air Corps) and SeirbhÃ*s Chabhlaigh na hÉireann (Irish Naval Service), leaving Ireland with only an Army to defended itself.

November 26 - December 9 1997 — The Irish Defence Forces enjoyed a number of early successes, taking Enniskillen, Armagh, Newry, and Londonderry.

December 13 1997 — The British form the 36th (Ulster) Defence Division and move it into Fermanagh and Armagh.

December 14 1997 — First British and Irish conscripts arrive in Northern Ireland.

January 21 1998 — The remnants of Irish Naval Service form the Naval Infantry Regiment and remnants of Irish Air Corps forms 5 Independent (Air Force) Battery; anti-aircraft defense.

March 3 1998 — With destruction of Irish Naval Service and elimination of IRA sea threat the remnants British Northern Ireland Squadron are redeployed to Mediterranean.

June 1998 — The 36th (Ulster) Defence Division goes on the attack and retakes some of its lost border territories except for Londonderry and Armagh.

November 1998 — As winter approached, the war is stalemated as both sides concentrated on feeding their civilian population. At the same time, the IRA began a new campaign of terror in Northern Ireland.

March 1999 — The IRA continues its guerrilla war, despite RUC crackdowns.

Mid-May 1999 — The 36th (Ulster) Defence Division lays siege Londonderry.

April 1999 — Irish Defence Forces launched a two division attack, but it flounders on the 36th (Ulster) Defence Division defensive line.

May 1999 — The 36th (Ulster) Defence Division launched its own offensive. The severity of the attack resulted in the Irish Defence Forces being pushed back along the entire front.

June 1999 — Armagh falls to 36th (Ulster) Defence Division.

August 1999 — The 36th (Ulster) Defence Division drives to outskirts of Ballyshannon, which isolates the Donegal region.

October 1999 — The 36th (Ulster) Defence Division halts its offensive and secured all of its gains. For all its success, however, the 36th (Ulster) Defence Division could not seize Londonderry, to which it had laid siege to in mid-May.

January 2000 — The year begins with a surprise offensive by the Irish Defence Forces. Conducted in the middle of the worst winter seen in Ireland for many years, it takes the 36th (Ulster) Defence Division totally by surprise and accomplishes its goal re-establishing links with Donegal and breaking the siege of Londonderry.

June 2000 — The 36th (Ulster) Defence Division launched a two-pronged offensive, with a southern drive towards Dublin and eastern drive into Donegal to isolate Londonderry.

June 7 2000 — The southern drive is halted at Drogheda, while the eastern drive encountered stiff resistance and stalled on the outskirts of Bailyshannon.

September 2000 — As autumn set in, the 36th (Ulster) Defence Division begins the siege of Bailyshannon, which could continue through the winter.

Currently —In Northern Ireland, the troubles continued, and the situation shows no signs of ending. Northern Ireland is, for all intents and purposes, an independent country. The war with Ireland continues to be bogged down, with both sides launching a number of unsuccessful attacks. The oncoming blight has increase hardships on both sides, but the war continues — the government that sues for peace is the government that is overthrown. The situation has come to resemble that found in places like Ethiopia, the Sudan, and various other African countries during the 1980s.

[Mohoender]

August 1999 — The 36th (Ulster) Defence Division seizes Ballyshannon, which isolates the Donegal region.

June 7 2000 — The southern drive is halted at Drogheda, while the eastern drive encountered stiff resistance and stalled on the outskirts of Bailyshannon.

September 2000 — As autumn set in, the 36th (Ulster) Defence Division begin the siege of Bailyshannon, which could continue through the winter.


I like it but isn't there a small problem between these three? Or may be an element missing when the 36th is taken by surprise?

[Canadian Army]

I fixed it, I should never play snakes and ladders with my son while I'm posting!

August 1999 — The 36th (Ulster) Defence Division drives to outskirts of Ballyshannon, which isolates the Donegal region.

October 1999 — The 36th (Ulster) Defence Division halts its offensive and secured all of its gains. For all its success, however, the 36th (Ulster) Defence Division could not seize Londonderry, to which it had laid siege to in mid-May.

January 2000 — The year begins with a surprise offensive by the Irish Defence Forces. Conducted in the middle of the worst winter seen in Ireland for many years, it takes the 36th (Ulster) Defence Division totally by surprise and accomplishes its goal re-establishing links with Donegal and breaking the siege of Londonderry.

June 7 2000 — The southern drive is halted at Drogheda, while the eastern drive encountered stiff resistance and stalled on the outskirts of Bailyshannon.

September 2000 — As autumn set in, the 36th (Ulster) Defence Division begins the siege of Bailyshannon, which could continue through the winter.

[RN7]

My view about Northern Ireland would be that British and Northern Irish Unionists forces would be too tough for Republic of Ireland forces to take on on their own ground, even during a nuclear war.

Irish Republican terrorists were suprisingly resourcefull and determined, but they tended to cross the border when things got to hot for them as they knew British security forces couldn't pursue them. Unionist terrorists and paramilitaries on the other hand had a more ruthless reputation as there was nowhere for them to run. In a full scale war in Northern Ireland there would be little or no restrictions on British security and police force activity, and they would turn a blind eye to Ulster Unionist terrorists.

Although Irish troops are highly regarded, and have historically and continue to be among best soldiers in the British Army, Republic of Ireland military forces are generally inferior to their British counterparts in training and are not as well equiped. The Irish Army is very underfunded and uses mainly outdates equipment, while the Irish Air Corp has little combat and transport capability, and the Irish Naval Service is little better than a coast guard force.

Compared with Republic of Ireland military resources, Britain's military resources and capablities are vastly superior in every way. One RN frigate would sink the entire Irish fleet, and a couple of second line RAF Hawk jets would knock out the entire Irish air force in a day. One British Army armoured regiment could be loaded on a few car ferrys and be in Northern Ireland in a few hours, and it would obliterate the Irish Army as a functional force.


NORTHERN IRELAND

BRITISH ARMY
Currently only one British Army brigade is stationed in Northern Ireland-38th (Irish) Infantry Brigade.

38th (Irish) Infantry Brigade reformed in 2007. The brigade is under the command of the 2nd Division, the regional division for Scotland, Northern England and Northern Ireland, and is responsible for administering the Territorial Army within Northern Ireland. This was the culmination of a drawdown of military headquarters in Northern Ireland, which saw the disbandment of 3 Infantry Brigade, 8 Infantry Brigade, 39 Infantry Brigade and 107 (Ulster) Brigade.

HQ Northern Ireland
15 Signal Regiment
38 Infantry Brigade:
• HQNI Support Battalion
• 2nd Battalion, The Royal Irish Regiment (27th (Inniskilling), 83rd, 87th and Ulster Defence Regiment)
• 591 (Independent) Field Squadron, Royal Engineers
• 152 Transport Regiment, Royal Logistic Corps
• 253 Medical Regiment, Royal Army Medical Corps
• Queen's University Officer Training Corps
B (North Irish Horse) Squadron, Queen's Own Yeomanry
40 (Ulster) Signal Regiment
206 (Ulster) Battery, 105th Regiment Royal Artillery (Volunteers)
204 Field Hospital, Royal Army Medical Corps
5 Regiment, Army Air Corps
25 Engineer Regiment
8 Detachment, Lisburn, Northern Ireland - 243 Provost Company (Volunteers)


3rd Infantry Brigade was based in Portadown Ireland from 1974 until 2004 when it was disbanded. It was the HQ element for the security forces which controlled the South Armagh region, and included several battalions of the Ulster Defence Regiment.

8th Infantry Brigade was based in Derry from the late 1960s to 2006, and covered the north and northwest regions of Ulster. Its HQ was moved to Ballykelly in 2003 and the brigade was disbanded in 2006.

39th Infantry Brigade was deployed to Northern Ireland in 1969 and was responsible for the security of Belfast and the eastern region of Ulster. It was named 39 Airportable Brigade when it was first sent to Ireland, and under its command were elements of the Parachute Regiment which was involved in the Bloody Sunday incident in 1972. The brigade took on some units from the disbanded 3rd Infantry Brigade in 2004, and was amalgamated with 107 (Ulster) Brigade in 2006 and disbanded in 2007.

107th (Ulster) Brigade was based in Ballymena and was responsible for administering the Territorial Army within Northern Ireland. It was disbanded in 2006 and amalgamated with 39 Infantry Brigade and then into the 38th (Irish) Infantry Brigade in 2007.

Many regular British Army infantry regiments and units from mainland Britain did tours in Northern Ireland, including the Parachute Regiment, the Special Air Service, and Royal Marine Commandos.


ROYAL IRISH RANGERS
British Army infantry regiment formed in 1968 when the three surviving Irish regiments of the British Army were amalgamated into a single regiment. Although an Irish based regiment the Rangers were resistant to serving in Northern Ireland during the height of the “ Troubles �, and its troops served tours in Germany, the Falklands and elsewhere, and the regiment actively recruited from South of the Border. However the Rangers did serve in Northern Ireland from 1989-1991. The regiment amalgamated with the Ulster Defence Regiment to form the Royal Irish Regiment in 1992.

Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers
Royal Ulster Rifles
Royal Irish Fusiliers (Princess Victoria’s)

Weapons: Standard British Army issue.
Vehicles: Standard British Army issue.


ULSTER DEFENCE REGIMENT (UDR)
Former British Army Territorial infantry regiment with 11 battalions at peak strength. Highly politicised and accused of both sectarianism and collusion with Loyalist paramilitaries and abuses against catholic community. Catholic members accounted for 3% of strength during the 1980’s and 1990’s. The regiment amalgamated with the Royal Irish Rangers to form the Royal Irish Regiment in 1992.

1st (County Antrim) Battalion
2nd (County Armagh) Battalion
3rd (County Down) Battalion
4th (County Fermanagh) Battalion
5th (County Londonderry) Battalion
6th (County Tyrone) Battalion
7th (City of Belfast) Battalion
8th (County Tyrone) Battalion
9th (County Antrim) Battalion
10th (City of Belfast) Battalion
11th (Craigavon) Battalion

Weapons: 7.62mm L1A1 SLR rifles, 9mm Browning pistols, 9mm Sterling SMG’s, 7.62mm L4A4 Bren LMGs, 7.62mm L7A2 FN MAG GPMGs, as well as small stocks of Walther PPK pistols, Federal riot guns and Carl Gustav 84mm grenade launchers. 5.56mm SA80 began replacing L1A1 SLR in the 1980’s.
Vehicles: ¾-ton Land Rovers, Shorland armoured cars, three & four-ton Bedford trucks, and unmarked civilian cars and vans. UDR troops were frequently deployed on Army and RAF helicopters, usually the Army Lynx.

ROYAL ULSTER CONSTABULARY (RUC)
At its peak the RUC had around 8,500 police officers with a further 5,000 members of the RUC Reserve, which was the second largest police force in the United Kingdom after the Metropolitan Police of London. The Special Patrol Group was a RUC police unit tasked with counter terrorism. Each SPG had 30 members. Many SPG units were accused of collusion with the paramilitary group the Ulster Volunteer Force.

Weapons: 0.38 Ruger Security Six revolver, 7.62mm Ruger Mini-14 carbine, 9mm HK MP5 SMG’s, as well as some 9mm Glock 17 pistols, 7.62mm HK G3 and 5.56mm HK33 rifles.
Vehicles: ¾-ton Land Rovers, civilian cars and vans.

ROYAL AIR FORCE
RAF Aldergrove (20th September 2009 ceased to officially be RAF base)
No. 230 Squadron (9x Puma helicopters)
No. 3 Squadron, RAF Regiment
5th Regiment Army Air Corps (6x Defender multi-purpose patrol and recon aircraft, 6x Islander patrol and utility aircraft)
PSNI Air Support Unit (1x EC-135 helicopter)
***
No. 72 Squadron operated Puma & Wessex helicopters until 2002.
No. 18 Squadron operated detachments of Chinook helicopters during the late 1980’s.
* Also Army AH-64, Gazelle and Lynx helicopters periodically deployed to Aldergrove, in addition to RAF Tristars and VC10s.
Shackleton Barracks
Former RAF base. Runways and taxiways remain well maintained and operational, and are used as a refuelling point for army helicopters and small fixed-wing aircraft operating out of RAF Aldergrove.

ROYAL NAVY
4 River-Class minesweepers (Arun, Blackwater, Itchen, Spey)
* All 4 ships moved to HM Naval Base Clyde (Faslane Naval Base) in western Scotland in 1993, and replaced by Hunt-Class minesweepers (Brecon, Cottesmore, Dulverton) in 1998.

[Mohoender]

Thanks RN7. Nice stuff.

For my part I have Irish forces collaborating with the British against the IRA but CA has posted a nice timeline and I'm not sure that if the situation evolves as he describes the British Army gets the upper hand.

Also I agree partly with what you say, you might be underestimating the Irish army.

First, it will be composed of 13.000 regular troops and 16.000 reservists. They will compose 4 infantry brigades including 11 infantry battalions, 1 Ranger company, 1 Tank squadron, 1 Recce squadron, 3 artillery regiment, 1 independent battery, 1 air-defense regiment and 3 engineer companies.

Second they will mobilize the Forsa Cosanta Aituil (FCA) that will bring 22.000 more troops. That represent 18 infantry battalion, six artillery regiments, 3 armoured cavalry squadrons, 3 engineer squadrons and 3 air-defense batteries.

Their equipement is not that heavy alright but so is the equipment of the British. In addition Scorpion and AML-60/90 will represent a serious threat. Carl Gustav and Milan will match these of the British. Artillery is partly outdated with 25-pdr but much of it is equipped with light gun and that is much better than anything in British hands.

Bofors and RBS-70 are more than a threat for the RAF.

You are right for the air force and the navy, however. I don't think the navy will be heavily engaged and the air force is no good outside COIN operations. Nevertheless, in case of the Twilight War, the Irish will still have their 6 Fouga Magister. These will be the sole jet aircrafts in the area and could prove to be of a certain advantage. Fouga have limited capacities but with no opposing jets they are something to count with.

Finally Ireland has the Garda Sochiana (Civil Police) to back its army and it will have less difficulties in term of supply. Outside Cork the country didn't suffer any massive destruction and you can expect it's tiny military industry to be working. That's very tiny indeed but more than what the British have after the nukes fall. In addition, you can expect the French to provide some supplies and why not more Fouga (the last were being retired at that time)

[TiggerCCW UK]

Sorry I haven't given a proper reply to this yet - been very busy with work. I'll hopefully get a chance to give this a proper answer from a local point of view this weekend.

[RN7]

First, it will be composed of 13.000 regular troops and 16.000 reservists. They will compose 4 infantry brigades including 11 infantry battalions, 1 Ranger company, 1 Tank squadron, 1 Recce squadron, 3 artillery regiment, 1 independent battery, 1 air-defense regiment and 3 engineer companies.

On paper! But in the period covering the Twilight War period the Republic of Ireland's land forces amounted to 14x Scorpion Tanks, 19x AML-90 and 32x AML-60, and 24x AML-20 armoured cars, 70x APC's, 60x artillery guns (including 48x 88mm guns dating from the 1930's), and 21 Milan AT missiles (and thats debatable).


Second they will mobilize the Forsa Cosanta Aituil (FCA) that will bring 22.000 more troops. That represent 18 infantry battalion, six artillery regiments, 3 armoured cavalry squadrons, 3 engineer squadrons and 3 air-defense batteries.

The FCA is the Irish reserve, you have double counted it, and its armoured cavalry squadrons have no armoured vehicles in the real sense of the word, while its artillery regiments would be equipped with a few mortars if they are lucky.


Their equipement is not that heavy alright but so is the equipment of the British. In addition Scorpion and AML-60/90 will represent a serious threat. Carl Gustav and Milan will match these of the British. Artillery is partly outdated with 25-pdr but much of it is equipped with light gun and that is much better than anything in British hands.

Their the worst equipped army in Europe and Ireland's light skinned Scorpion and AML's would have no chance against British tanks, and they had a total of 14x 105mm light guns in addition to the 48x 25 pdr museum pieces.


Bofors and RBS-70 are more than a threat for the RAF.

I really don't think a few AA Guns and 7x RBS-70 man portable SAM's with a range of 8km are going to trouble the RAF that much.


You are right for the air force and the navy, however. I don't think the navy will be heavily engaged and the air force is no good outside COIN operations. Nevertheless, in case of the Twilight War, the Irish will still have their 6 Fouga Magister. These will be the sole jet aircrafts in the area and could prove to be of a certain advantage. Fouga have limited capacities but with no opposing jets they are something to count with.

The RAF don't have to base any jets in Northern Ireland. How hard would it realy be for RAF jets to reach any target in Ireland from Britain?


Finally Ireland has the Garda Sochiana (Civil Police) to back its army and it will have less difficulties in term of supply. Outside Cork the country didn't suffer any massive destruction and you can expect it's tiny military industry to be working. That's very tiny indeed but more than what the British have after the nukes fall. In addition, you can expect the French to provide some supplies and why not more Fouga (the last were being retired at that time)

The Garda are an unarmed police force, although plain clothes officers do carry firearms and the force has small stocks of SMG's, shotguns and rifles. Ireland (Republic) has no military industry, it imports all its weapons. If Ireland attacks British forces then I would expect British forces to retaliate in some force, and they could pretty much wipe out Ireland's military forces in a days if they wanted to. If the French provide supplies I would expect it to be clandestine and not in great quantities, and they are certainly not going to be shipping Fouga's.

[Mohoender]

On paper! But in the period covering the Twilight War period the Republic of Ireland's land forces amounted to 14x Scorpion Tanks, 19x AML-90 and 32x AML-60, and 24x AML-20 armoured cars, 70x APC's, 60x artillery guns (including 48x 88mm guns dating from the 1930's), and 21 Milan AT missiles (and thats debatable).


I consider that it was built up to that just because of the war.


The FCA is the Irish reserve, you have double counted it, and its armoured cavalry squadrons have no armoured vehicles in the real sense of the word, while its artillery regiments would be equipped with a few mortars if they are lucky.


Thanks a lot for that one. My source is British that must explain why. It counted this as a second reserve. I have not done on Ireland so far and, therefore, this will be more than useful. I 'm very greatful.:)



Their the worst equipped army in Europe and Ireland's light skinned Scorpion and AML's would have no chance against British tanks, and they had a total of 14x 105mm light guns in addition to the 48x 25 pdr museum pieces.


I entirely agree but there is no british tanks in Northern Ireland. Moreover, I don't consider that the British have anything above 120mm mortars in that area. Then, 50 museum pieces are something to count with.


I really don't think a few AA Guns and 7x RBS-70 man portable SAM's with a range of 8km are going to trouble the RAF that much.


If UK deploys even a wing of Harriers, the game is over but helicopters are an entirely different matter. It depends on your choice here.


The RAF don't have to base any jets in Northern Ireland. How hard would it realy be for RAF jets to reach any target in Ireland from Britain?


I agree but I counted that the RAF being busy elsewhere, it wouldn't deploy here.


The Garda are an unarmed police force, although plain clothes officers do carry firearms and the force has small stocks of SMG's, shotguns and rifles. Ireland (Republic) has no military industry, it imports all its weapons. If Ireland attacks British forces then I would expect British forces to retaliate in some force, and they could pretty much wipe out Ireland's military forces in a days if they wanted to. If the French provide supplies I would expect it to be clandestine and not in great quantities, and they are certainly not going to be shipping Fouga's.

I understood that but, I'm sure the Garda will be armed in case of a Twilight War (at least with shotguns). However, I didn't consider it would carry any field duty outside of coastal and rear areas patrols.

For France, there is no reason for the supplies to be shipped clandestinely as Ireland (unlike scotland or Quebec) is a legitimate country. It would be perfectly legitimate to sell it military supplies: phased out AML, heavy mortars, ammunitions and, why not, air-defense equipements. For the Fouga, I'm convinced they will for two reasons: France is out of the war and it will keep replacing its Fougas by Alpha Jets. Therefore, it will be more than happy to sell them (even in the case of no conflict with UK, it could sell them to Ireland). Irish pilots are familiar with the plane and they won't need extensive training to expend the air force. If UK wants to react against France sending supplies, it can't do much outside of the diplomatic fields because France is too strong militarily.

The main difference between our views reside in the British reaction. I consider that this conflict would remain an infantry war with forces pretty much matching each other. That's what I understood from Canadian Army text and, of course, I might be wrong. As I said my personnal view is that Ireland remains outside of the conflict, even helping the British in their fight against the IRA. Thanks for your views:)

[Mohoender]

Something else might interest you RN7. If most of the Irish AML are AML-60, they will quickly find themselve short of ammunitions unless Ireland as the capability to produce the proper 60mm ammo.

France phased out its last AML-60 in the mid-1980's (or early, I don't remember) because of insufficient ammo. If I think France could supply Ireland, it would certainly not produce these 60mm mortar rounds again. It leaves the AML-60 with their Cal.50 and 7.62 only.

[RN7]

There were 4 British Brigade HQ in Northern Ireland in the 1990s. 3rd, 8th and 39th Infantry Brigades were regional brigades covering various parts of Northern Ireland, containing a mix of regular troops and UDR. 107th (Ulster) Brigade is a TA Brigade which contained 4th and 5th Royal Irish Rangers, the North Irish Horse and signals, engineer and artillery elements.

All brigades were earmarked for transfer out of Ireland as the war in Europe heated up. 3rd Infantry Brigade was transferred out of Ireland to 3rd Mechanised Division with BAOR, but with trouble brewing in Ireland the others are likely to have stayed.

8th Infantry Brigade (Battalions rotate out)
1st Bn, The Light Infantry: 8x 81mm mortars, 6x Milan, 4x .50 cal mg
3rd Bn, The Light Infantry: 8x 81mm mortars, 6x Milan, 4x .50 cal mg

39th Infantry Brigade (Dedicated to the defence of Northern Ireland) (The Battalions rotate out).
1st Bn, The Devon and Dorset Regiment: 71x FV432, 4x Sultan, 7x Ferret, 8x Scimitar, 8x 81mm Mortar, 24x Milan
1st Bn, The Cheshire Regiment (Light Infantry): 8x 81mm mortars, 6x Milan, 4x .50 cal mg

107 (Ulster) Brigade (NI)
North Irish Horse (TA): 29x Sultan, 40x Scimitar, 32xScorpion, 20x Striker, 20x Spartan, 17x Ferret
1st Bn, The Royal Irish Rangers: 71x FV432, 4x Sultan, 7x Ferret, 8x Scimitar, 8x 81mm Mortar, 24x Milan
2nd Bn, The Royal Irish Rangers: 71x FV432, 4x Sultan, 7x Ferret, 8x Scimitar, 8x 81mm Mortar, 24x Milan
4th Bn, The Royal Irish Rangers (TA): 74x Land Rovers
5th Bn, The Royal Irish Rangers (TA): 74x Land Rovers

Ulster Defense Regiment (TA)
11 Infantry Battalions (Light Infantry): 8x 81mm mortars, 6x Milan, 4x .50 cal mg (each) * It is likely that only 5 battalions or even 3 (large) battalion were active.


One British Army Armoured Regiment had 70x Challenger, 4x Sultan, 8x Scorpion, 10x FV432, 8x Ferret. In the 90’s three armoured regiments were based in the UK, and two of them were not assigned to reinforce the BAOR in Germany. One British Army Territorial Yeomanry Regiment had 80x Fox, 20x Spartan, 11x Sultan, 11x Ferret and 5x Samaritan. One British Army Light Field Artillery Regiment had 24-18x 105mm guns. Any one of them could easily be transported to Ireland by ferry in a few hours.

[Rainbow Six]

I think a point worth also bringing up is the quality of the two sides’ soldiers. I have friends in Dublin and used to visit regularly in the early to mid 90’ and the subject of the Irish Army came up in conversation a few times.

My understanding from talking to my friends was that the majority of Southern Irishmen who were serious about pursuing a long term military career opted to join either the British Army or, in some cases, the French Foreign Legion. This meant that these organisations attracted the best quality recruits, whilst the Irish Army wasn't seen as a good option and had to make do with what was left (or the British / French didn’t want).

[RN7]

I think a point worth also bringing up is the quality of the two sides’ soldiers. I have friends in Dublin and used to visit regularly in the early to mid 90’ and the subject of the Irish Army came up in conversation a few times.

My understanding from talking to my friends was that the majority of Southern Irishmen who were serious about pursuing a long term military career opted to join either the British Army or, in some cases, the French Foreign Legion. This meant that these organisations attracted the best quality recruits, whilst the Irish Army wasn't seen as a good option and had to make do with what was left (or the British / French didn’t want).


I didn't want to bring this topic up but you are spot on.

I think Ireland (south) is the largest source of British Army recruits outside of the UK and maybe Nepal. Most recruits to the Irish Army have either the wrong temperment to be employed at anything else or see it as a career move to a fairly comfortable government job. Many married soldiers go home to their families after work, at least for part of the week, and it was recently highlighted in the Irish media that many Irish soldiers are well over 30 and out of shape. Many also volunteer for UN peacekeeping duties because they get a big pay rise for doing so.

Back in the 90's Irish army soldiers tried to suit the Irish government because they claimed their hearing was damaged because they werent given ear plugs while on target practice. Some soldiers also tried to suit because they werent provided with sun-screen while on UN duties in sunny climates such as Cyprus and the Lebanon. It was also claimed that Irish soldiers were asked to make pretent shooting and explosive noises while on exercises as the army couldn't afford to give them real or training ammunition because of cuts.

Recently some new vehicles, helicopters and weapons have been bought to increase the forces capabilities, particularly regarding UN duties, but outside of the Ranger Company which is very well trained and highly regarded, the average Republic of Ireland soldier isn't as well trained, equipped or of the same calibre of their British counterparts.

[Mohoender]

One British Army Armoured Regiment had 70x Challenger, 4x Sultan, 8x Scorpion, 10x FV432, 8x Ferret. In the 90’s three armoured regiments were based in the UK, and two of them were not assigned to reinforce the BAOR in Germany. One British Army Territorial Yeomanry Regiment had 80x Fox, 20x Spartan, 11x Sultan, 11x Ferret and 5x Samaritan. One British Army Light Field Artillery Regiment had 24-18x 105mm guns. Any one of them could easily be transported to Ireland by ferry in a few hours.

I think I remember and know that you are quite accurate. As I said my point of view is that Ireland remains neutral and helps UK fighting the IRA. I also adopted the OOB developped by someone from the former forum where these regular units have been replaced by territorial units more lightly equipped.

However, I didn't checked CA's timeline in regard of the game's timeline. I have not refered to any of the original timelines in a couple of months and as my personnal biological computer is already overloaded with informations, I don't retain a precize memory of it (I had to overwrite that part of my braindisc:D).

In my mind these units were either sent overseas or vaporized by the heavy nuclear strike on UK. That counts also for most ferries (at least these in the Irish Sea). If CA's timeline takes place before that, I would advise that what he describes should happen a little later. I agree with you that the Irish would be fools to move against regular UK units.

[Mohoender]

I didn't want to bring this topic up but you are spot on.



That's why I don't have Ireland fighting UK even when that last country is badly weakened. Still CA's idea is nice and I like it.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

... Many married soldiers go home to their families after work, at least for part of the week,
That in itself isn't too surprising, there's a few Western armies that have the same thing during peacetime with personnel either in married quarters on base or in the local area near the base. During peacetime, if they aren't on exercises/training, then the army is practically a 9 to 5 job like any other job.

[Matt W]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article6814997.ece

The real-world plan of attack for the Irish army

[Webstral]

I lived in Cork during the '90-'91 school year as an exchange student at UC Cork. One of my housemates was an Irish reservist--a sniper. Living with him was very revealing.

Webstral

[RN7]

British Army orbat for Northern Ireland for the 1980's.

NORTHERN IRELAND

33 Independent Field Sqn RE, Antrim
Provisional Regiment AAC, Aldergrove
4 Royal Irish Rangers, Portadown
5 Royal Irish Rangers, Lurgan
102 Light Air Defence Regiment RA, Newtownards

8 Infantry Brigade, Londonderry

1 Queens Own Highlanders, Aldergrove
1 Royal Regiment of Fusiliers, Ballykelly
1 Royal Anglian Regiment, Londonderry
1 Queen’s Regiment, Omagh
39 Infantry Brigade, Lisburn

1 Royal Highland Fusiliers, Holywood
1 Devonshire & Dorset Regiment, Ballykinlar

Ulster Defence Regiment

1 UDR, Ballymena
2 UDR, Armagh
3 UDR, Ballykinlar
4 UDR, Enniskillen
5 UDR, Limavady
6 UDR, Omagh
7 UDR, Holywood
8 UDR, Dungannon
9 UDR, Antrim
10 UDR, Belfast
11 UDR, Portadown

74 Engineer Regiment, Belfast
655 Sqn AAC, det to Aldergrove

[Rainbow Six]

British Army orbat for Northern Ireland for the 1980's.

NORTHERN IRELAND

33 Independent Field Sqn RE, Antrim
Provisional Regiment AAC, Aldergrove
4 Royal Irish Rangers, Portadown
5 Royal Irish Rangers, Lurgan
102 Light Air Defence Regiment RA, Newtownards

8 Infantry Brigade, Londonderry

1 Queens Own Highlanders, Aldergrove
1 Royal Regiment of Fusiliers, Ballykelly
1 Royal Anglian Regiment, Londonderry
1 Queen’s Regiment, Omagh
39 Infantry Brigade, Lisburn

1 Royal Highland Fusiliers, Holywood
1 Devonshire & Dorset Regiment, Ballykinlar

Ulster Defence Regiment

1 UDR, Ballymena
2 UDR, Armagh
3 UDR, Ballykinlar
4 UDR, Enniskillen
5 UDR, Limavady
6 UDR, Omagh
7 UDR, Holywood
8 UDR, Dungannon
9 UDR, Antrim
10 UDR, Belfast
11 UDR, Portadown

74 Engineer Regiment, Belfast
655 Sqn AAC, det to Aldergrove

Isn't this missing the 3rd Infantry Brigade in South Armagh?

There was also a Royal Military Police presence...I'm not 100% on this but think it might have been 173 Provost Company at Lisburn (at least from August 87 - the lineage of RMP Companies in NI seems a bit complex...a lot of Provost Companies and Regiments have been disbanded then reformed over the years).

The Infantry Battalions are also complicated by the fact that additional Battalions (and occasionally Royal Artillery Field Regiments) transferred in on short term roulement tours. (I'm guessing the orbat above is showing the Battalions on long term tours at the time?).

Finally, I think at during at least part of the 80's there was also an Army Guard Force at the Maze prison which may have been a detached Squadron from an Armoured Regiment or Battery from an Artillery Regiment (operating in an infantry role without their respective tanks / artilley pieces). Again I think this was a short term roulement posting.

Cheers

[RN7]

Isn't this missing the 3rd Infantry Brigade in South Armagh?

Yes the 3rd Brigade was not included in this orbat I was sourcing. I just used this orbat to add additional information for British forces in Northern Ireland. The 3rd Infantry Brigade was based in Portadown from 1974 till 2004 which I refered to in an earlier post.


There was also a Royal Military Police presence...I'm not 100% on this but think it might have been 173 Provost Company at Lisburn (at least from August 87 - the lineage of RMP Companies in NI seems a bit complex...a lot of Provost Companies and Regiments have been disbanded then reformed over the years).

I think 6th Regiment Royal Military Police currently covers Northern Ireland.

6 Regiment RMP
Regimental Training Wing
Operations Company
173 (Operations) Platoon
177 (Support) Platoon
Police Company
175 (Provost) Platoon
176 (Provost) Platoon

Also 8 Detachment, 243 Provost Company (Volunteers) was in Lisburn Northern Ireland for a period.

The Infantry Battalions are also complicated by the fact that additional Battalions (and occasionally Royal Artillery Field Regiments) transferred in on short term roulement tours. (I'm guessing the orbat above is showing the Battalions on long term tours at the time?).

They were listed as deployed to Northern Ireland in 1984-85.

Finally, I think at during at least part of the 80's there was also an Army Guard Force at the Maze prison which may have been a detached Squadron from an Armoured Regiment or Battery from an Artillery Regiment (operating in an infantry role without their respective tanks / artilley pieces). Again I think this was a short term roulement posting.

In 1982 I think elements of the Queens Royal Irish Hussars were part of the guard force for the Maze Prison.

[Rainbow Six]

I think 6th Regiment Royal Military Police currently covers Northern Ireland.

6 Regiment RMP
Regimental Training Wing
Operations Company
173 (Operations) Platoon
177 (Support) Platoon
Police Company
175 (Provost) Platoon
176 (Provost) Platoon

Also 8 Detachment, 243 Provost Company (Volunteers) was in Lisburn Northern Ireland for a period.

You're right, it's currently 6th Regiment that covers NI, although that wasn't established until June 2000, so wouldn't exist in T2K.

As best as I can tell 1st Regiment was in place until March 1985, at which point it disbanded and its constituent Companies (which included 173 and possibly 174 Provost Companies) became independent. So in a T2K setting a GM could probably keep 1st Regiment in place if desired.

That said, I've always thought that canon envisaged most regular British forces being pulled out of Northern Ireland at some point during 1997 and moved to Europe, with their place being taken by a fully mobilised Ulster Defence Regiment.

So, if you go by canon it makes perfect sense to me that the UDR would then take on the title 36th (Ulster) Division (as suggested by Canadian Army), and provide the vast majority of the infantry soldiers in NI, whilst a small number of British Regulars (or TA) from the Royal Signals, Royal Engineers (for EOD), and Army Air Corps fill 36 Division's various support roles. Personally, I would also attach 1 Regiment RMP and (possibly) 3 Squadron RAF Regiment (as you mentioned earlier) to 36th Division.

[RN7]

You're right, it's currently 6th Regiment that covers NI, although that wasn't established until June 2000, so wouldn't exist in T2K.

As best as I can tell 1st Regiment was in place until March 1985, at which point it disbanded and its constituent Companies (which included 173 and possibly 174 Provost Companies) became independent. So in a T2K setting a GM could probably keep 1st Regiment in place if desired.

Well I dunno, 176 Provost Company was actually part of 2nd Regiment RMP which I think has now been disbanded, while I have since seen that 254 Provost Company (Volunteers) TA which I think has been disbanded, was also in Northern Ireland and part of the 2nd Regiment. 243 Provost Company (Volunteers) was based in Scotland but 8 detachment was in Ireland, and 243 Provost Company was part of the 5th Regiment RMP which was HQ in Germany along with 1st Regiment RMP. 3rd & 4th regiments RMP seem to be mainly home based units but none of their units were in Ireland. Not much logic to it at all I'm afraid!


That said, I've always thought that canon envisaged most regular British forces being pulled out of Northern Ireland at some point during 1997 and moved to Europe, with their place being taken by a fully mobilised Ulster Defence Regiment.

Could be.


So, if you go by canon it makes perfect sense to me that the UDR would then take on the title 36th (Ulster) Division (as suggested by Canadian Army), and provide the vast majority of the infantry soldiers in NI, whilst a small number of British Regulars (or TA) from the Royal Signals, Royal Engineers (for EOD), and Army Air Corps fill 36 Division's various support roles. Personally, I would also attach 1 Regiment RMP and (possibly) 3 Squadron RAF Regiment (as you mentioned earlier) to 36th Division.

The only problem here would be that the 36th (Ulster) Division was disbanded in 1919 and never reformed, even during WW2. However one of its brigades (107th) was active until 2006 and present in Ireland. An oversized largely UDR infantry brigade or a brigade group padded out by a small number of army and TA regulars may have been more realistic.

[Rainbow Six]

Well I dunno, 176 Provost Company was actually part of 2nd Regiment RMP which I think has now been disbanded, while I have since seen that 254 Provost Company (Volunteers) TA which I think has been disbanded, was also in Northern Ireland and part of the 2nd Regiment. 243 Provost Company (Volunteers) was based in Scotland but 8 detachment was in Ireland, and 243 Provost Company was part of the 5th Regiment RMP which was HQ in Germany along with 1st Regiment RMP. 3rd & 4th regiments RMP seem to be mainly home based units but none of their units were in Ireland. Not much logic to it at all I'm afraid!

Totally agree...Regiments and Companies seem to have been disbanded and then reformed with some regularity, making it a bit of a headache trying to work out which units would have been in NI at any given time.

The only problem here would be that the 36th (Ulster) Division was disbanded in 1919 and never reformed, even during WW2. However one of its brigades (107th) was active until 2006 and present in Ireland. An oversized largely UDR infantry brigade or a brigade group padded out by a small number of army and TA regulars may have been more realistic.

Yep, valid point...either of those options would also work...

Cheers

[Dog 6]

"November 1 1997 — The IRA sink the HMS Helford, HMS Blackwater, HMS Itchen, HMS Orwell, and HMS Spey moored HM Naval Base Clyde; with 106mm Cannons mounted on motorboats."


Anyone have any idea how many 106mm RR rounds it would take to sink each ship?

[Legbreaker]

Anyone have any idea how many 106mm RR rounds it would take to sink each ship?

Just one if placed in the right location. Of course finding that location might take numerous attempts.

As a rule though, I'd imagine holes above the waterline aren't going to do much good, and 106mm RCL aren't exactly all that effective through water....

[StainlessSteelCynic]

"November 1 1997 — The IRA sink the HMS Helford, HMS Blackwater, HMS Itchen, HMS Orwell, and HMS Spey moored HM Naval Base Clyde; with 106mm Cannons mounted on motorboats."


Anyone have any idea how many 106mm RR rounds it would take to sink each ship?

I think the other important issue is what kind of vessels were they? If for example they were the small coastal minesweepers the British had during that period, they were wooden hull (or fibreglass I don't recall exactly).

Hmm, doing a quick check of the web, the Helford was a minehunter ship, unfortunately it was transferred to the Bangladeshi navy in 1994. The picture looks as though it has a metal hull but would it have the same level of armour as say a frigate? The 106mm rounds were at least the equivalent of a 105mm tank round so they would have some ability to damage a ship.
It seems that at least half of the ships mentioned are minehunters and they are rather small
http://www.oldships.org.uk/SHIPS/SHIP_DETAILS/HELFORD_DETAIL.htm
http://www.oldships.org.uk/SHIPS/SHIP_DETAILS/BLACKWATER_DETAIL.htm
http://www.oldships.org.uk/SHIPS/SHIP_DETAILS/ITCHEN_DETAILS.htm

[Canadian Army]

I did some checking the River-Class were built with a traditional steel hull to a design based on a commercial offshore support vessel. The class was designed to be operated as deep sea team sweepers, to combat the threat posed to submarines by Soviet deep-water buoyant moored mines codenamed "Cluster Bay".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_class_minesweeper

Here is picture from wikipedia of the HMS Orwell in the Bay of Biscay en route to Gibraltar, 1990
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/HMS_Orwell_%28M2011%29_Bay_of_Biscay_1990.jpg

[Rainbow Six]

Also, HMNB Clyde is home to the Royal Navy's ballistic missile subs, so would be fairly heavily guarded by, amongst others, the Royal Marines' Commachio Group.

I'd have thought PIRA would be better off using any recoilless rifles they had against British vehicles in Ulster...I can't see any benefit to them in sinking five minesweepers in Scottish waters (other than as a propaganda coup perhaps).

Cheers

[Mohoender]

Wouldn't it be nicer to have them using divers as the Italians did in 1941 when they sunk the Queen Elisabeth and Valiant?

[chico20854]

Also, HMNB Clyde is home to the Royal Navy's ballistic missile subs, so would be fairly heavily guarded by, amongst others, the Royal Marines' Commachio Group.

I'd have thought PIRA would be better off using any recoilless rifles they had against British vehicles in Ulster...I can't see any benefit to them in sinking five minesweepers in Scottish waters (other than as a propaganda coup perhaps).

Cheers

The wiki page on Commachio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleet_Protection_Group_Royal_Marines) states by the late 80s it was over 400 strong. I can't really see PIRA getting 106mm RRs in place there. Now the Baltic and/or Northern Fleet Naval Spetsnaz Brigades are another story (SSBNs might be a priority for them?), and they have access to all kinds of goodies, like AT-4 missiles.

Just saying...

[RN7]

I want to retract my previous statement about Republic of Ireland troops-

" Most recruits to the Irish Army have either the wrong temperment to be employed at anything else or see it as a career move to a fairly comfortable government job. Many married soldiers go home to their families after work, at least for part of the week, and it was recently highlighted in the Irish media that many Irish soldiers are well over 30 and out of shape. Many also volunteer for UN peacekeeping duties because they get a big pay rise for doing so".

-after reading this article about them serving on UN duty in the Congo during the 1960's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jadotville

150 Irish soldiers in the middle of Africa cut off from other UN forces with no hope of relief, and with little heavy weaponry and shortages of ammunition and supplies, manage to hold out against a force of up to 5,000 enemy native soldiers led by European mercenaries for six days until they ran out of ammunition and supplies, and kill at least 300 and wound up to 1,000 with no casualties to themsleves other than a half a dozen wounded.

I believe there is going to be a film about it. The UN should have sent the Irish to Bosnia or Rwanda!

[Webstral]

150 Irish soldiers in the middle of Africa cut off from other UN forces with no hope of relief, and with little heavy weaponry and shortages of ammunition and supplies, manage to hold out against a force of up to 5,000 enemy native soldiers led by European mercenaries for six days until they ran out of ammunition and supplies, and kill at least 300 and wound up to 1,000 with no casualties to themsleves other than a half a dozen wounded.

I believe there is going to be a film about it. The UN should have sent the Irish to Bosnia or Rwanda!

Someone told the Irish that the enemy was coming to cut down all the trees in Ireland again and that Cromwell was leading them.

Webstral

[waiting4something]

I don't see why the British Army would even care about Northern Ireland. I mean with Warsaw Pact and all wouldn't they be the least of their probelms?
I mean I could see leaving a very small force there for homeland defense against a possible foreign enemy, but with WW3 why not let law enforcement handle the civilains, and let the troops fight the reds. Why not just leave Northern Ireland to it's own devices? I mean the IRA would be cutting it's own balls off by attacking British troops. They know if the British lost, the Soviets aren't gonna be nice to them, or leave them alone in Northern Ireland. I just think the U.K. would have more important things to do then give up able bodied troops to play policeman. I like the story though. I'm not from the U.K., so it's not that in my face. I don't even understand what the whole thing is about and what group stands for what and who is fighting who. My education on the IRA is from Hollywood.:o

[Ironside]

It has been said that when anyone comes close to solving the 'Irish Question', the Irish change the question ;)

[Rainbow Six]

I believe there is going to be a film about it. The UN should have sent the Irish to Bosnia or Rwanda!

They weren't in Rwanda, but the Irish did have a contingent in Bosnia, and are still in Kosovo, as well as supporting a host of other UN operations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Army#United_Nations_Missions

On a semi related note, T2K wise as part of some notes on what I thought UK Forces in Cyprus might look like in the summer of 2000 I had the British Army taking under command a number of the UN peacekeeping contingents who were stationed on the island and became effectively stranded there when the War started, including one from the Irish Defence Force, thus resulting in British and Irish soldiers serving alongside each other.

[Rapparee]

Impressed to see Jadotville is known about! They call the Congo, "The Forgotten War" over here since there was little or no recognition of that, the Niemba ambush, Second Battle for the Tunnel or the numerous contacts they had.

Just thought I'd post to clear up a few points and to clarify what Mohoender and RN7 were saying. The latters done a fantastic job of outlaying the British capabilities so I thought I'd help uphold the flag (nah, taking the piss!). I'll try to give an overview of the Irish military strength at the time.

Confusion over names: The Irish Reserves were renamed the Reserve Defence Forces in 2005 (RDF), replacing the FCA and ANM(naval reserve) with the Army Reserve(AR) and Naval Reserve(NR). I'll be using both terms throughout but since this is T2K, you can assume I mean the FCA to avoid anarchorisms!


So here goes my shot at the T2K Irish Defence Forces Orbat 1995

The NATO orbat 1989 gives a surprisingly detailed layout. (http://www.scribd.com/doc/37695/NATO-Order-of-Battle-1989)

1. Southern Command

a. 1st Brigade – Cork:

1. 2 Infantry Bns, each: 2 Rifle Cos, Support Co.
2. 1 Cavalry Recon Squadron
3. 1 Field Artillery Regt 4. 1 Engineer Co

b. FCA Group, Southern Command – Cork:

1. 6 Infantry Battalions
2. 1 Motorised Reconnaissance Squadron
3. 2 Field Artillery Regiments
4. 2 Air Defence Batteries
5. 1 Field Engineer Company

2. Eastern Command

a. 2nd Brigade – Dublin:

1. 2 Infantry Bns, each: 2 Rifle Cos, Support Co.
2. 1 Cavalry Recon Squadron
3. 1 Field Artillery Regt
4. 1 Engineer Co

b. Eastern Command Infantry Force – Gormanston: 2 Infantry Bns

c. FCA Group, Eastern Command – Dublin:

1. 4 Infantry Battalions
2. 1 Motorised Reconnaissance Squadron
3. 1 Field Artillery Regiment
4. 1 Air Defence Battery
5. 1 Field Engineer Company

3. Western Command

a. 4th Brigade – Athlone:

1. 2 Infantry Bns, each: 2 Rifle Cos, Support Co.
2. 1 Cavalry Recon Squadron
3. 1 Field Artillery Regt
4. 1 Engineer Co b. 28th Infantry Battalion (Reinforced) – Finner Camp, Bundoran:


c. FCA Group, Western Command – Athlone:

1. 6 Infantry Battalions
2. 1 Motorised Reconnaissance Squadron
3. 2 Field Artillery Regiments
4. 1 Field Engineer Company

4. Curragh Command


a. 6th Brigade – Curragh Camp, County Kildare:

1. 2 Infantry Battalions, each: 2 Rifle Cos, Support Co.
2. 1 Armored Recon Squadron
3. 1 Field Artillery Battery

b. Army Ranger Unit – Curragh Camp:

c. 1st Tank Squadron – Curragh Camp:

14 CVR(T) Scorpions

d. 1st Air Defense Regiment – Curragh Camp:

1 Regular, 3 FCA Air Defense Batteries

e. FCA Group Curragh Command – Curragh:

1. 2 Infantry Battalions
2. 1 Field Artillery Regiment


5. Forces Assigned To UN Duties:

a. UNIFIL Infantry Bn – Lebanon: Formed from elements of other units, includes 4 AML-90, 10 Sisu APC, 4 120mm Mortars.

Note 1: One of the Brigades has a third infantry battalion.

Note 2: Equipment holdings as of early 1990:
14 Scorpion
19 AML-90
32 AML-60, 60 Panhard VTT (Janes says
47)
10 Timoney APCs
48 25pdr Field Guns
12 105mm Light Guns
400 81mm mortars
72 120mm mortars
21 MILAN launchers
444 84mm Carl Gustav’s
96 90mm PV-1110 RR (Finnish?)
24 Bofors 40L60 AA Guns
2 40L70,
7 RBS-70 SAMs

Strength:

The Irish Army's strength would stand around 8,500 as it generally remains at a static size in peacetime. Another 13-14,000 is in the FCA.

There is also a second reserve force in Ireland concisting of former members of the PDF and the Integrated Reserve. Former members are maintained on the rolls. More active members comprise a First Line reserve that in the event of a crisis would be activated before the FCA as they have superior experience and training. The Integrated Reserve is also expected to boost the manpower of PDF units whereas the FCA would be expected to operate seperately and only provide replacements in a dire case. I'm not sure how long former PDF members serve in the First Line reserve but I assume that older members would maintain a lower state of readiness but still be available to be called up in a crisis.

Infantry Weapons:

5.56mm Steyr AUG A1, 9mm Browning handgun, 7.62mm GPMG, 60mm mortars, 81mm Denel mortars, 120mm Brandt mortars. The aforementioned MILAN and Carl Gustav's. Most weapons are up to NATO standard and imported. A limited arms industry does exist though.

Reserve weapons- though officially the FN FAL was replaced in 1988 by the Steyr, the changeover took a longer time with the Army Reserve. Several units were still using them until 2002 before receiving the more modern rifle. Also the MK3 version of the Bren Gun was also a popular reserve weapon until it was finally replaced in 2006 by the GPMG. The Carl Gustav M/45 sub-machine gun was still being used by the PDF till the late 80s and many Reserve units also held onto these venerable weapons as they'd proved themselves in the Congo and Lebanon. Large stocks of these weapons were maintained for years after they were declared obsolete. I know for a fact that the Brens weren't taken care of till at least 2008 so there is an arms surplus in the country during T2K.


Irish Air Corp
1. COIN Squadron: 6 CM-170-2 Super Magister

2. COIN/Training Squadron: 7 SF-260WE, 1 SF-260 MC, 2 SA-342L helos

3. Army Support Squadron: 8 SA-316B Helos

4. Other aircraft: 5 SA-365 in SAR, Naval roles, 7 F-172s in Liason role, 1 HS-125, 1 Super King Air 200

Strength: The Irish Air Corp's strength is just under a thousand, standing at 935.

Irish Naval Service

Deirdre Class Offshore Patrol Vessels:

LÉ Deirdre (P20) (1972–2000)
LÉ Emer (P21) (1978-In Active Service)
LÉ Aoife (P22) (1979-In Active Service)
LÉ Aisling (P23) (1980-In Active Service)

Eithne Class Offshore/Helicopter Patrol Vessel:

LÉ Eithne (P31) (1984-In Active Service)

Peacock Class Coastal Patrol Vessels:

LÉ Orla (P41) (1985-In Active Service)
LÉ Ciara (P42) (1989-In Active Service)

Those are the vessels that would be definetely operational at the time. Given that T2K is an alternative darker history, it is possible that certain vessels weren't decommisioned when they were and that production on others was ordered ahead of time. Particularly since the last two only entered service four or five years after canon says the war began.

Possible Vessels:

Ton-class Minesweepers:

LÉ Grainne (CM10) (1971–1987)
LÉ Banba (CM11) (1971–1984)
LÉ Fola (CM12) (1971–1987)

RóisÃ*n class Offshore Patrol Vessels:

LÉ RóisÃ*n (P51) (1999-In Active Service)
LÉ Niamh (P52) (2001-In Active Service)

The Irish Naval Service also contains the Naval Service Diving Section (NSDS) which conducts combat diving alongside duties such as EOD and SAR. In addition, it also has nominal control over the SAR helicopters belonging to the Irish Coast Guard which is not a military organization.

Strength: The Irish Naval Service has a strength of around 1,444 with another 400 in the reserve.

Civil Units

Garda Siochana

A primarily unarmed policing force, the Garda concists of around 15,000 uniformed patrolling officers. Training in firearms is provided but the normal officer on the street is unarmed except in extreme instances. Special armed units do exist though, such as the ERU(Emergency Response Unit) which train with Army special forces. Specialist water, diver, air and dog units are also present in the Gardai.

Civil Defense

Civil Defense Ireland is the national civil defense organisation in the Republic. It possesses several different services such as an auxiliary fire service, SAR, Ambulance, Water Rescue, Warden (communications/radiation) and Welfare. A volunteer organisation, it has 6,000 members.

Military Standard

Despite Ireland's neutrality, it does have an unexpected amount of combat experience amongst its ranks. The start of the modern army was really the Congo where the soldiers were deployed with World War 2 equipment and emerged with top grade NATO arms and tools by the conclusion of the crisis. 6,000 Irishmen served in the Congo and managed to revitalize a stagnant, corrupt and antiquated force. Peacekeeping would continue in the 70s, with service in Cyprus and the Middle East. 9,000 Irish soldiers have served in Cyprus since 1964.

The one of most relevance to T2K though is service in Lebanon. Beginning in 1978, Irish troops have been part of UNIFIL until 2001. 30,000 Irish soldiers served in Lebanon, meaning by the mid-90s, the majority of the Irish army had been deployed abroad at least once. 47 were killed and they faced frequent hazards from IED's, ambushes and artillery fire. Engagements with the Israeli's, SLA and Hezbollah all occured at one time or another. So while the Republic's armed forces might have a lack of combat experience compared to the UK in this scenario, the Irish forces will at least have some idea of what conflict is like.

State in T2K:
The one issue I have with this scenario is thus. I believe the British Army would royally trash the IDF in a conflict in Northern Ireland, their professional standard and resources is undeniable. I just find it inappropriate with the setting. I can hardly see them deploying MBT's in what is effectively a sideshow while the armour is desperately needed in Europe. Even in history, no matter the severity of the conflict, Ireland has always been a secondary or tertiary priority for British forces. The most I can see happening is a primarily infantry based conflict raging across the island, not the curbstomp envisaged.

As far as I'm aware of, the only nuclear attack suffered in Ireland was in Cork (hooray!). Therefore the only affected units would be Southern Command. Their Headquarters infrastructure in Cork itself, along with a couple of formations would be a clean write-up. But the majority of the Command, along with FCA units would be spared. Nuclear fallout could hit Haulbowline Island, the Naval base though. Therefore the Irish military structure would be reasonably intact compared to much of Europes.

In a conflict scenario, I could see a few frigates being detached to eliminate any Irish naval assets and bombing flights being directed to Baldonnell Aerodrome to ensure the Air Corp become a memory. This would leave the Irish Army, an infantry-based force but still with substantial numbers of soldiers. The countryside and urban areas of Northern Ireland would be prime territory for them.

I don't see a victory for either side, a bloody stalemate more like. Any major Irish gains would be halted by temporary diversion of British units while a British campaign would never be completed due to lack of resources in the sideshow conflict. A settlement would probably be negotiated since there are fair more bigger fish for the British to be concerned about!

[Rainbow Six]

Rapparee, that's an impressive write up - well done.

FWIW I totally agree with you that the UK is simply not going to send an armoured Regiment (or even part thereof) across the Irish Sea - as you rightly state there's a far greater need for those tanks in Europe.

if you follow canon I believe it isn't so much the Irish Army up against British regulars - it's effectively the Irish Army fighting the Ulster Defence Regiment (with perhaps a small number of regulars in support roles).

I also agree with your conclusion that a stalemate would be the most likely outcome. The catalyst for peace negotiations might be the return from Europe of the BAOR (iirc two Divisions are back in the UK by the end of 2000 / start of 2001, with three more to follow later in 2001). That said, I think there's a lot of work to be done in the UK before any thought would be given to sending any of the European veterans to NI, but if they do finally cross the Irish Sea that's going to be a huge gamechanger. I'd expect the Republic to want to go to the negotiating table before that happened.

[Mohoender]

Here is something to complete the already impressive post by Rapparee:

- Arm na hÉireann (Irish Army)
o Army HQ
 Army HQ (Parkgate-Dublin)
 Engineer Survey Coy. (Phoenix Park-Dublin)
 Army HQ Signals Coy. (McKee Barracks-Dublin)
 1st Garrison Coy. MP (Government Buildings-Dublin)
o Eastern Command
 Command HQ (Collins Barracks-Dublin)
 McKee Barracks Coy. (McKee Barracks-Dublin)
 Clancy Barracks Coy. (Clancy Barracks-Dublin)
 2nd Maintenance Engineer Coy. (Collins Barracks-Dublin)
 Army Ordnance School (Dublin)
 2nd Garrison Ordnance Coy. (Cathal Brugha Barracks-Dublin)
 2nd Garrison Supply & Transport Coy. (McKee Barracks-Dublin)
 Base Workshops Coy. Supply & Transport Corps (Clancy Barracks-Dublin)
 2nd Hospital Coy. (St. Bricin’s Hospital-Dublin)
 St. Bricin’s Hospital (Dublin)
 2nd Garrison Coy. MP (Collins Barracks-Dublin)
 Army School of Music (Cathal Brugha Barracks-Dublin)
 No. 1 Army Band (Cathal Brugha Barracks-Dublin)
 Command Training Depot (Cathal Brugha Barracks-Dublin)
 Equitation School (McKee Barracks-Dublin)
 Army Catering School (McKee Barracks-Dublin)
o 2nd Infantry Brigade
 Bde. HQ (Collins Barracks-Dublin)
 2nd Infantry Bn. (Cathal Brugha Barracks-Dublin)
 5th Infantry Bn. (Collins Barracks-Dublin/12 Panhard M3)
 2nd Cavalry Sqn. (Cathal Brugha Barracks-Dublin/10 Panhard AML, 3 XA-180)
 2nd Field Artillery Rgt (McKee Barracks-Dublin/6 L118 and 6 QF25)
 2nd Field Engineer Co (Clancy Barracks-Dublin)
 2nd Field Signals Co (Collins Barrracks-Dublin)
 2nd Field Supply & Transport Coy. (Collins Barracks-Dublin)
 2nd Field Medical Coy. (FCA/Cathal Brugha Barracks-Dublin)
 2nd Field Coy. MP (FCA/Collins Barracks-Dublin)
o Eastern Command Infantry Force
 HQ (Gormanston. Meath)
 27th Infantry Bn. (Dundalk, Gormanston, Castleblaney)
 29th Infantry Bn. (Cootehill, Monaghan, Cavan/5 Panhard M3)
o Eastern Command FCA Group
 HQ (Cathal Brugha Barracks-Dublin)
 7th Infantry Bn. (McKee Barracks-Dublin, Swords, Navan, Kells)
 8th Infantry Bn. (Dundalk, Drogheda, Castleblaney, Cavan, Balieboro)
 20th Infantry Bn. (Cathal Brugha Barracks-Dublin)
 21st Infantry Bn. (Bray, Dun Loaghaire, Wicklow)
 11th Cavalry Sqn. (Cathal Brugha Barracks-Dublin/4 Panhard AML)
 7th Field Artillery Rgt. (McKee Barracks-Dublin/12 Brandt 120mm)
 2nd Air Defense Bty (Cathal Brugha Barracks-Dublin/6 Bofors)
 11th Field Engineer Coy. (Clancy Barracks-Dublin)
 11th Field Signals Coy. (Cathal Brugha Barracks-Dublin)
 11th Field Supply & Transport Coy. (Collins Barracks-Dublin)
 11th Field Medical Coy. (Cathal Brugha Barracks-Dublin)
 6th Field Coy. MP (Collins Barracks-Dublin)
o Southern Command
 Command HQ (Cork)
 3rd Maintenance Engineer Coy. (Cork)
 3rd Garrison Ordnance Coy. (Cork)
 3rd Garrison Supply & Transport Coy. (Cork)
 3rd Hospital Coy. (Cork)
 3rd Garrison Coy. MP (Cork)
 Command Training Depot (Cork)
 Band of the Southern Command (Cork)
o 1st Infantry Brigade
 Bde. HQ (Cork)
 3rd Infantry Bn. (Kilkenny, Curragh/16 Panhard M3)
 4th Infantry Bn. (Cork)
 12th Infantry Bn. (Limerick, Clonmel)
 1st Cavalry Sqn. (Fermoy/10 Panhard AML, 3 XA-180)
 1st Field Artillery Rgt (Balincollig/6 L118, 6 Brandt 120mm)
 1st Field Engineer Co (Cork)
 1st Field Signals Co (Cork)
 1st Field Supply & Transport Coy. (Cork)
 1st Field Medical Coy. (FCA/Cork)
 1st Field Coy. MP (Cork)
o Southern Command FCA Group
 HQ (Limerick)
 11th Infantry Bn. (Bandon, Bantry, Clonakilty, Macroom, Skibbereen)
 13th Infantry Bn. (Fermoy, Cahir, Dungarvan, Kanturk, Mallow)
 14th Infantry Bn. (Limerick, Nenagh, Croom, Kilmallock, Newcastle West, Tipperary)
 15th Infantry Bn. (Tralee, Cahirciveen, Dingle, Killarney, Killorglin, Listowel)
 22nd Infantry Bn. (Ennis, Labinch, Killaloe, Kilrush)
 23rd Infantry Bn. (Cork, Middleton)
 3rd Cavalry Sqn. (Clonmel/4 Panhard AML)
 3rd Field Artillery Rgt (Templemore/6 QF25 and 12 Brandt 120mm)
 8th Field Artillery Rgt. (Ballincollig/6 QF25 and 6 Brandt 120mm)
 3rd Air Defense Bty. (Limerick/6 Bofors)
 4th Air Defense Bty. (Cobh/6 Bofors)
 3rd Field Engineer Coy. (Limerick)
 3rd Field Signals Coy. (Limerick)
 3rd Field Supply & Transport Coy. (Limerick)
 3rd Field Medical Coy. (Limerick)
 3rd Field Coy. MP (Limerick)
o Western Command
 Command HQ (Athlone)
 4th Maintenance Engineer Coy. (Athlone)
 4th Garrison Ordnance Coy. (Athlone)
 4th Garrison Supply & Transport Coy. (Athlone)
 4th Hospital Coy. (Athlone)
 4th Garrison Coy. MP (Athlone)
 Command Training Depot (Athlone)
 University Student Admin. Coy. (Galway)
 Band of the Southern Command (Athlone)
o 4th Infantry Brigade
 Bde. HQ (Athlone)
 1st Infantry Bn. (Galway)
 6th Infantry Bn. (Athlone/14 Panhard M3)
 28th Infantry Bn. (Finner Camp, Lifford, Letterkenny)
 4th Cavalry Sqn. (Longford/10 Panhard AML, 3 XA-180)
 4th Field Artillery Rgt (Mullingar/6 L118, 6 Brandt 120mm)
 4th Field Engineer Co (Athlone)
 4th Field Signals Co (Athlone)
 4th Field Supply & Transport Coy. (Athlone)
 4th Field Medical Coy. (FCA/Athlone)
 4th Field Coy. MP (FCA/Athlone)
 Band of the 4th Brigade (Athlone)
 4th Brigade Training Centre
o Western Command FCA Group
 HQ (Galway)
 16th Infantry Bn. (Athlone, Ballinasloe, Tulamore, Ruscommon)
 17th Infantry Bn. (Longford, Granard, Stroke, Ballyconnel, Mohill)
 18th Infantry Bn. (Westport, Enniscrone, Swinford, Ballina)
 19th Infantry Bn. (Boyle, Carrick-on-Shannon, Dallymote, Castlera, Manorhamilton)
 24th Infantry Bn. (Letterkenny, Donegal, Carndonagh, Milford)
 25th Infantry Bn. (Galway, Clifden, Athenry, Loughrea)
 5th Cavalry Sqn. (Castlebar/4 Panhard AML)
 5th Field Artillery Rgt. (Galway/6 QF25 and 12 Brandt 120mm)
 9th Field Artillery Rgt. (Mullingar/12 Brandt 120mm)
 5th Field Engineer Coy. (Galway)
 5th Field Signals Coy. (Sligo)
 5th Field Supply & Transport Coy. (Galway)
 5th Field Medical Coy. (Galway)
 5th Field Coy. MP (Galway)
o Curragh Command
 HQ (Curragh Camp)
 Military College (Curragh)
 General Training Depot (Curragh)
 No.1 Security Coy. (Portlaoise Prison)
 Army Apprentice School (Naas)
 Army Ranger Wing (Curragh)
 9th Infantry Bn. (Kilkenny, Dunamaggin, Ballyragget, Waterford, Portlaoise, Durrow)
 10th Infantry Bn. (Wexford, New Ross, Carnew, Muinebeag, Carlow)
 1st Tank Sqn (Curragh/14 Scorpion, 5 XA-180)
 6th Field Artillery Rgt (Kildare/12 QF25 and 6 Brandt 120)
 1st Air Defence Rgt (Kildare/8 Bofors)
 6th Field Signal Coy. (Curragh)
 Depot & School Cavalry (Curragh)

This is taken from Irish Army OOB 1923-2004 by Adrian J. English
ISBN 0972029672

You’ll find it on books.google.fr

What I put in Italic have been modified or added and doesn't reflect reality. If 2 XA-180 were effectively bought by Ireland, the other ten had been supplied by UN. In the original OOB they are either Panhard AML or Timoney APC. Also in the original OOB as given, there were only 6 L118 howitzer.

The reason I made these changes come from WW2 readings of the Irish Army. At the time, it had grown from 10.000 in 1938 to 40.000 by 1944. Whatever it is very personnal and open to debate.

[Canadian Army]

Here are a some of the other units involved in Northern Ireland:

Irish Republican Army (IRA)
The central aim of the IRA is to end British control of Northern Ireland and to achieve the reunification of the island of Ireland. From a splinter group of a small and badly equipped paramilitary grouping the 'Provisional' IRA developed into a comparatively large, well financed, well equipped guerrilla organization which has been involved in, what it calls, an 'armed campaign' for almost three decades. Recently the IRA has split into two factions, those serving Arm Na Héireann (Irish Army) as security battalions in controlled Northern Ireland and those still active in British controlled Northern Ireland.

IRA Brigades (Active in British Controlled Northern Ireland)

IRA Army Council

Belfast Brigade:

Active Service Unit 1
Active Service Unit 2
Active Service Unit 3


East Tyrone Brigade:

Active Service Unit 4


North Antrim Brigade:

Active Service Unit 5


South Down Brigade:

Active Service Unit 6


Internal Security Squad (Interrogates and executes suspected informers)

Arsenal:

Armalite AR-15 Assault Rifle
Semtex (Commercial High Explosive*)


IRA Internal Security Battalions (Serving with Irish Army in Irish Controlled Northern Ireland):

1 South Armagh Battalion; formerly of the South Armagh Brigade
2 North Antrim Battalion; formerly of the North Antrim Brigade
3 East Tyrone Battalion; formerly of the East Tyrone Brigade
4 Belfast Battalion; formerly attached to the Belfast Brigade
5 Belfast Battalion; formerly attached to the Belfast Brigade
6 Belfast Battalion; formerly attached to the Belfast Brigade
7 Fermanagh Battalion
8 Derry Battalion; formerly attached to the Derry Brigade


Arsenal:

AK-47 / AKM Assault Rifle
7.62mm FN MAG medium machine gun
12.7mmx107mm DShK heavy machine gun
SAM-7 anti-aircraft launcher
RPG-7 rocket launcher
Webley .455 revolver
LPO-50 flame thrower


The Combined Loyalist Military Command (CLMC)
The Combined Loyalist Military Command original was an umbrella body for loyalist paramilitary groups in Northern Ireland set up in the early 1990’s. Bringing together the leaderships of the Ulster Defence Association, the Ulster Volunteer Force and the Red Hand Commandos, the CLMC sought to ensure that the groups would work towards the same goals. On November 10 1997, the Ulster Volunteer Force, the Ulster Defence Association, the Red Hand Commandos joined together in the Combined Loyalist Military Command, to form united front against the invading Óglaigh na hÉireann (Irish Defence Forces). The CLMC is organised in 13 companies (organized along traditional British Infantry Companies), with members often were a red beret. Its current strength is 2,000 members.

Units:

Belfast Company
Ards Company
Lisburn Company
Bainbridge Company
Coleraine Company
Ballmoney Company
Ballmena Company
Larne Company
Antrim Company
Armagh Company
Craigavon Company
North Down Company
Carrickfergus Company


Arsenal:

Czech Sa vz. 58 Assault Rifle
AK-47 Rifle
Enfield No. 2 Mk I Revolver
Uzi Sub-Machinegun
Browning Pistol
RGD-5 Offensive Grenade
RPG-7 Rocket Launcher



Royal Ulster Constabulary
The Royal Ulster Constabulary is the police force in Northern Ireland. The force has come under a lot of criticism from the nationalist community since its inception but particularly since the beginning of the conflict. The RUC had approximately 8,500 officers (The RUC Reserve was made up of 1,500 part-time and 3,200 full-time officers); almost entirely drawn from the Protestant community. Unlike the majority of police forces in the United Kingdom, the RUC is the only territorial police force that is armed, officers are issued the Ruger Security Six revolvers, and either the Heckler & Koch MP5 semi-automatic carbine, or rifles such as Heckler & Koch G3s or HK33s as well as Ruger Mini-14 select fire rifles.

RUC Special Branch
The Special Branch is formally constituted as E Department. It is organized and subdivided by function into three regions (Belfast, North and South). E1 looks after vetting of personnel, internal security, and the supply of under cover vehicles and security of communications (mail and telecommunications). E2 is the department responsible for legal liaison, the interrogation centres and SB activity in prisons. E3 collates all intelligence gathered by field operators, informers and uniformed officers. E4 is the operations division which carries out the day-to-day field work of intelligence gathering.

Headquarters Mobile Support Unit (HMSU)
The HMSU is a special unit established in 1978 by the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) and is the RUC equivalent of the Special Air Service (SAS). Members of the HMSU were drawn from RUC Special Branch and were trained by the SAS to on how to confront Irish Republican Army (IRA) members with 'firepower, speed and aggression'. The unit works in collaboration with the RUC intelligence gathering unit.

Royal Ulster Constabulary Reserve (RUCR):
A special reserve force attached to the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC). The force is made up of 1,500 full-time and 3,200 part-time members.

Divisional Mobile Support Unit (DMSU)
DMSUs operate under the control of headquarters in the respective 12 Divisional Command areas. All DMSUs receive additional training from RUC/British Army specialists at the Operations Training Unit based in Palace Barracks. Back-up for DMSUs is provided from within the RUCR some of whom are formed into Shadow DMSUs.

*The IRA has always made use of 'home-made' explosives. These explosives became more sophisticated and more powerful over the years and included home-made mortars and fertilizer-based car and lorry bombs.

[Canadian Army]

I think it's time I post my OOB for British Forces in Northern Ireland:

Northern Ireland Command
HQ Northern Ireland is the command formation responsible for the administration of all British Armed Forces stationed in and around Northern Ireland.
HQ Northern Ireland

6 Regiment, Royal Military Police*
233 Signal Squadron, 15 Signal Regiment
591(Independent) Field Squadron, Royal Engineers (EOD)

Northern Ireland Command Military Intelligence

12th Intelligence and Security Company**
14th Intelligence Company***
Force Research Unit****

40 (Ulster) Signal Regiment
40 (Ulster) Signal Regiment is Territorial Army regiment in the Royal Corps of Signals in the British Army. The regiment forms part of 2 (National Communications) Signal Brigade, re-establish some form of regional Government communications infrastructure in the aftermath of a nuclear strike on the UK. The regiment does not have an internal security role in Northern Ireland.

Royal Air Force; RAF Aldergrove
With the elimination of the Irish Air Corps and growing need for aircraft in other theatres, No. 18 Squadron, RAF, No. 72 Squadron, RAF and 5 Regiment, Army Air Corps were redeployed in 1997 leaving only a small force of one Chinook HC2, one Britten-Norman Islander, two Westland Gazelle AH1 No. 3 Squadron, RAF Regiment and the small staff at the Royal Air Force's
Reconnaissance Intelligence Centre
No. 18 Squadron, RAF
No. 72 Squadron, RAF
651 Squadron; 5 Regiment, Army Air Corps
No. 3 Squadron, RAF Regiment (Ground Defence)
Royal Air Force's Reconnaissance Intelligence Centre (Northern Ireland)

36th (Ulster) Infantry Division [Motorized Infantry]
The 36th (Ulster) Infantry Division (36 ID)(taking it’s name from the 36th (Ulster) Division of Lord Kitchener's New Army) is an motorized infantry division of the British Army formed around the battalions, of the Ulster Defence Regiment (UDR) in 1996. The Division replaced the 3rd, 9th, and 39th Infantry Brigades; who were deployed to European and Middle Eastern Theatres; as the main security force in Northern Ireland.

Headquarters and Signals Battalion (225 Signal Squadron, 15 Signal Regiment)
No. 1 (Lovat Scouts) Company, 51st Highland Volunteers*****

107 (Antrim) Defence Brigade

1st (County Antrim) Battalion******, Ulster Defence Regiment
9th (Country Antrim) Battalion, Ulster Defence Regiment
10th (City of Belfast) Battalion, Ulster Defence Regiment
7th (City of Belfast) Battalion, Ulster Defence Regiment

108 (Tyrone) Brigade

6th (County Tyrone) Battalion, Ulster Defence Regiment
8th (County Tyrone) Battalion, Ulster Defence Regiment
11th (Craigavon) Battalion, Ulster Defence Regiment
Queen’s University/Belfast University Officer Training Corps Battalion

109 (Londonderry) Brigade

2nd (County Armagh) Battalion, Ulster Defence Regiment
3rd (County Down) Battalion, Ulster Defence Regiment
5th (County Londonderry) Battalion, Ulster Defence Regiment
4th (County Fermanagh) Battalion, Ulster Defence Regiment

Northern Ireland Squadron, Royal Navy
The Northern Ireland Squadron is a unit of the Royal Navy; established during the early days of the conflict in Northern Ireland. The squadron was moved to HM Naval Base Clyde, aka Faslane Naval Base, Scotland in 1993. Also in 1993, the River-class ships were subsequently assigned to the Northern Ireland Squadron where they replaced Ton-class vessels patrolling the province's waterways and participating in counter-terrorist operations in support of the British Army and the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC). On November 1 1997 the IRA sank the HMS Helford, HMS Blackwater, HMS Itchen, HMS Orwell, and HMS Spey and remnants British Northern Ireland Squadron were redeployed to Mediterranean; with destruction of Irish Naval Service and elimination of IRA sea threat, two months later. In 1998 the sunken ships were salvage and under went repairs in order to return them to active duty, but since the nuclear attacks all repairs on the ships have stopped.

HMS Blackwater (M2008) – salvage and under going repairs at Alexandra Dock
HMS Itchen (M2009) – salvage and under going repairs at Alexandra Dock
HMS Spey (M2013) – salvage and under going repairs at Alexandra Dock
HMS Arun (M2014) – Cyprus, Eastern Sovereign Base Area
HMS Helford (M2006) – salvage and under going repairs at Alexandra Dock
HMS Orwell (M2011) – Cyprus, Eastern Sovereign Base Area
HMS Caroline (D44) *******


* Includes the 243 Provost Company (Volunteers), Royal Military Police

**Conducts undercover Electronic Warfare; including Electronic surveillance/interception operations.

***Conducts undercover surveillance operations against suspected members of Irish republican and loyalist paramilitary groups.

****An ultra-secret unit that is responsible surveillance and for Agent handling in Northern Ireland.

*****A specially trained Territorial Army Yeomanry infantry company that acts in the Anti-Sniper/Sniper role.

******All battalions of the 36th UDD are Motorized Infantry with the battalions organized as follows: 5x AT-105C Saxon - Command vehicle (Headquarters and Headquarters Company), Weapons Company: 16x Land Rover Defender Series III - Beeswing ATGM Launchers (Antitank Platoon), 8x AT-105MR Saxon - 51 mm mortar (Mortar Platoon), and 8x FV 721 Fox Combat Vehicle Reconnaissance (wheeled) (Recon Platoon). Three Rifle Companies, each with: 16x Snatch Land Rovers/Land Rover Defender Series III.

******* The HMS Caroline acts as a static headquarters and training ship for the Royal Naval Reserve (RNR), based in Alexandra Dock, Belfast, Northern Ireland. She is the last remaining British World War I light cruiser in service, and the last survivor of the Battle of Jutland still afloat. Although no longer capable of making way under her own steam, she remains afloat and in excellent condition.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Nice to see the Caroline getting a mention, she's a great old lady :D I've a few pics of her somewhere if anyones interested?

Sadly Caroline is due to be retired in the near future as she is in need of a more intensive overhaul than the RNR can manage on site. Hopefully she'll be turned into a museum and stay in Belfast, but sadly there are no guarantees on that :(

[Sanjuro]

I also have some issues with PIRA being able to sink those minesweepers; firstly, mounting weapons that big on a motorboat is a lot more difficult than it sounds (British merchant vessels were only able to be armed during WW2 because they were legally required to have the mountings, and under-deck bracing, as part of British registry)- even a recoilless rifle is going to be difficult. Actually hitting the target would be very difficult- the lower Clyde and Firth of Clyde are rarely entirely calm, so keeping small motorboats stable enough for multiple shots would be very difficult. Probably the only practical weapons for the job would be the RPG7- and that means getting close, and being exposed to defending fire.
Secondly, as others have posted, the Clyde Naval base is defended by troops who are trained and prepared for Spetsnatz type attacks; small boats are one of the threats they expect.
Thirdly, the Clyde Boom would have been closed; sure, the boats could go through the Kyles of Bute and bypass the boom, but in wartime the Kyles would be unlit at night.
Finally, in wartime the Clyde's usual busy traffic of yachts and small craft is going to be greatly reduced, making the attackers much more visible.
In peacetime, the attack is barely feasible; in wartime, a suicide mission, with little prospect of success.

[Canadian Army]

Thanks for the info. Sanjuro. Maybe underwater swimmer with homemade explosive, or something else? Any suggestions!

[dragoon500ly]

My own take on it would be swimmers with explosive charges....there was footage floating around of a Iranian speed boat trying to attack a tanker with a recoilless rifle....the backblast set fire to the boat and blew two crewmembers overboard. And that was with a SPG-9; firing a 106mm......ouch!

[Legbreaker]

Without a proper warship of some kind, they're probably only going to be successful (and live) with divers and limpet mines.
I wouldn't want to try it in winter though!

[Rainbow Six]

I still think if Irish terrorists had the resources (be that recoilless rifles, limpet mines or whatever) they'd be better employed using them against British Army targets in Northern Ireland.

Also, you've listed the IRA, but there were a number of other active terrorist groups in NI including the Irish National Liberation Army (INLA) and various different IRA factions.

Probably worth noting that there was often in fighting between the various different groups (both Republican and Loyalist) so there could well be a number of frictions within the Combined Loyalist Military Command.

[Olefin]

saw this thread (and a very interesting one indeed)

has anyone on the board ever tried to do an Ireland Sourcebook - the way the UK Sourcebook was written it makes it sound like an Irish one was going to be done but it was never started

[RN7]

saw this thread (and a very interesting one indeed)

has anyone on the board ever tried to do an Ireland Sourcebook - the way the UK Sourcebook was written it makes it sound like an Irish one was going to be done but it was never started

Maybe as part of a UK sourcebook, but on its own there really isn't enough material for a sourcebook on Ireland.

[Olefin]

Wonder if the original author was possibly thinking of setting a module in Ireland then using that to expand on the situation in Ireland - much as Kings Ransom did with the situation in the Esfahan area in Iran (i.e. it corrected a couple of oversights and added some nice details lacking in the RDF Sourcebook)

[Rainbow Six]

I intended to do one as a companion piece to my UK Survivor's Guide, but I never got beyond the preliminary stages and at the moment I have neither the time nor the inclination to pick it up again.

If you want to see how far I got check out this thread from MSG #81 onwards.

http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=2947&page=3

[Olefin]

I intended to do one as a companion piece to my UK Survivor's Guide, but I never got beyond the preliminary stages and at the moment I have neither the time nor the inclination to pick it up again.

If you want to see how far I got check out this thread from MSG #81 onwards.

http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=2947&page=3

This is really good work - do you know if James is working on a sourcebook as per his request to you to borrow some of what you wrote? This is truly good and really adds to the earlier UK work you did

[Rainbow Six]

Thanks.

No idea what James is up to I'm afraid.