kato13
09-10-2008, 05:03 AM
Raellus 08-09-2008, 04:42 PM In light of all the excellent PAW and WWIII fiction recommendations in the Post Apocalyptic Summer Reading thread, I thought I'd start a thread for non-fiction books that might be of use to T2K GMs and players.
I'm kicking myself (hard) for getting rid of almost all of the Cold War weapons and uniforms books that I collected as a kid back in the late '80s. When I got married and no longer had an excuse to store all of my "old" stuff at my folks' house, I got rid of boxes of Cold War stuff, figuring that it was useless.
WWIII never happened, so why am I keeping all of this "hypothetical" stuff?!?
Now, I'm having to buy it all back bit by bit, sometimes paying more than I did back in '87! (I'm a bit OCD about having new or "virgin" books.)
Oh well, enough whining. What are some good non-fiction books on WWIII military tech, uniforms, org, etc?
Osprey put out some pretty cool books on late Cold War military uniforms and army organizations.
Luckily, I kept my NATO Armies Today and Inside the U.S. Army Today (both c. 1987 or so)
I also have a copy of Warsaw Pact Ground Forces (a recent buyback)
I used to have one called the Soviet Army Today. There's also one on Soviet/Warpact Elite Forces. I'm currently trying to find new copies of these titles at a reasonable price.
They also had one called something like Tank War: Central Europe that had color plates of NATO and WARPACT MBTs and crew unis as well as a detailed discussion of the respective armor tactics, training, etc. and I think some hypothetical WWIII combat descriptions.
Any other titles that may be of interest? (author slinks off to resume kicking himself)
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Matt Wiser 08-09-2008, 09:10 PM David Isby had a couple of books on the subject: Armies of NATO's Central Front and Armies of the Warsaw Pact, both were written around 1985 if memory serves. There was also Soviet Air/Land Battle Tactics, by Steven Zaloga, which had diagrams and maps taken from Soviet military journals. There were a series of coffee table books on modern combat, Modern Air Combat, Modern Land Combat, and Modern Naval Combat, which had plenty of illustrations, maps showing combat tactics in all three disciplines, and info on the weapons systems likely to be used in a WW III.
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dude_uk 08-10-2008, 04:47 AM Osprey also had a book (Back in reprint at the moment) British Army in the 1980's.
I've got quite a few on the British army 'circa the late 80's. But if anyone can recommend some more that would be great.
They also had one called something like Tank War: Central Europe that had color plates of NATO and WARPACT MBTs and crew unis as well as a detailed discussion of the respective armor tactics, training, etc. and I think some hypothetical WWIII combat descriptio
Believe this is the book that you want
Tank war central front (http://www.amazon.com/Tank-War-Central-Front-Elite-No/dp/0850459044/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1218365026&sr=8-3)
Its not too bad.
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chico20854 08-10-2008, 11:52 AM David Isby had a couple of books on the subject: Armies of NATO's Central Front and Armies of the Warsaw Pact, both were written around 1985 if memory serves. There was also Soviet Air/Land Battle Tactics, by Steven Zaloga, which had diagrams and maps taken from Soviet military journals. There were a series of coffee table books on modern combat, Modern Air Combat, Modern Land Combat, and Modern Naval Combat, which had plenty of illustrations, maps showing combat tactics in all three disciplines, and info on the weapons systems likely to be used in a WW III.
Isby put out 2 great ones - Armies of NATO's Central Front and Weapons and Tactics of the Soviet Army (2 editions, 1983 or so and 1989). His Armies of the Warsaw Pact was never published - he told me in an email that it was being edited for publication when the wall came down and the whole project was shelved.
Some of the dozens I have:
Suvorov's Inside the Soviet Army, Liberators, and the rest (only partially non-fiction!)
Air Battle Central Europe by Price
Ten Million Bayonets by Isby
Combat Fleets of the World 1995
Fleet Tactics by Wayne Hughes
The Sea in Soviet Strategy
Soviet Naval Tactics by Milan Vego
IISS's Military Balance 1990-1
Guide to the Soviet Navy by Polmar
Ships and Aircraft of the US Fleet also by Polmar (1987 edition)
Naval Institute Guide to World Military Aviation 1995
Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapons Systems 97-98
Armed Forces of North Korea by Bermudez
Defense Forces of Norway
South African War Machine by Heitman
Merchant Ships at War by Villar
Securing the Seas by Paul Nitze
Blind Man's Bluff by Sontag
The US Maritime Strategy by Norman Friedman
Soviet Nuclear Weapons by Cochran, Arkin, Norris & Sands
Anti-Submarine Warfare by Hill
Battle for the Fjords by Grove
and the Janes books - Armor & Artillery, Infantry Weapons, Logistics, Aircraft, Fighting Ships.
and about 4 GB of pdfs on the hard drive are specifically Cold War history.
I also spend an occaisional afternoon at the University of Maryland Library reading old copies of Janes Soviet Intelligence Review, USNI Proceedings, International Defense Review, the US Naval War College Review, Field Artillery, Armor, Infantry, Military Review and whatever else I can find...
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Raellus 08-10-2008, 05:28 PM There were a series of coffee table books on modern combat, Modern Air Combat, Modern Land Combat, and Modern Naval Combat, which had plenty of illustrations, maps showing combat tactics in all three disciplines, and info on the weapons systems likely to be used in a WW III.
Good call. I actually still have the latter pair! I used to have Modern Air Combat but it fell apart after much perusing. That was during my pre-teen Top Gun fanatic phase. I have two more from that series (or at least in the identical format) as well:
Modern Submarine Warfare and Modern Fighting Helicopters.
Dude UK, I've got the Osprey British Army book. I'm embarrassed that I forgot to mention it. I hope I didn't offend any of the U.K. faction by its unintentional omission.
Chico, that's quite the collection. Serious academic stuff too. Nice.
********************
copeab 08-10-2008, 06:02 PM A couple of more general books:
Dirty Little Secrets, James Dunnigan and Albert Nofi
(Random bits of information and ancedotes)
How To Make War (3rd Edition), James Dunnigan
(Published in 1993 and probably more useful to a T2K campaign than the 4th edition from 2003)
Brandon
********************
Law0369 08-10-2008, 06:40 PM Chico is the main reason we put out such good stuff,,,,, His home and person are a great wealth of experiance and knowledge...
********************
Matt Wiser 08-11-2008, 12:14 AM Anything put out by James Dunnigan and the folks at Strategypage has to be on any short list. Add to that anything from Naval Institute Press.
********************
antimedic 08-27-2008, 10:36 AM Trying to remember a Harpoon scenarios book name. I believe it was battles of the third world war, put out by gdw ib the late 80's. I think the front of it was a carrier deck lauching F14s. Any idea of the name and who wrote it?
********************
antimedic 08-27-2008, 11:45 AM Brain freeze is over. Its Battles of the Third World War by Larry Bond. Thanks for the help gang.
********************
boogiedowndonovan 08-27-2008, 02:02 PM cool thread,
I'm always on the lookout for reading material.
I know there are some who don't like Osprey books (don't ask me why, I personally like them). But another one that I like is Armies of the Gulf War (http://cgi.ebay.com/Armies-of-the-First-Gulf-War-Osprey-Book_W0QQitemZ220201359655QQihZ012QQcategoryZ10953 QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp16 38Q2em118Q2el1247), has army orbats of the US, UK, France, Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Gulf States and Iraq for Desert Storm. The US orbat is the most detailed, including USMC and SOF. I like this one because it is more current and closer to the T2k timeline than Inside the US Army Today and NATO Armies Today and presumably British Army in the 80's (I have the US Army and NATO books, but not the British Army in the 80's.)
Combined Arms miniatures rules for WIII by GDW has TOE for most NATO forces and Warsaw Pact down to the platoon level. It is a bit dated though, I think it was published in 1984, but the rules were originally written earlier?
Future Wars by Trevor Dupuy, I picked this book up in a used book store. As the title says, it is about wars in the early 21st century, all hypothetical (whew!). It goes over possible conflicts like Arab-Israeli war, Hungary vs Romania, North Korea vs South Korea, Nicaragua vs. El Salvador/Honduras/USA, China vs. Russia, breakup of the Soviet Union and a Russian Civil War and South Africa vs. Angola. I like this one for the South Africa vs. Angloa chapter. It has orbats, but I don't know how accurate they are.
I also have a large folder on my computer with files and pdfs I've saved. I don't think it is as large as chico's tho.
********************
pmulcahy 08-27-2008, 02:15 PM Now, I'm having to buy it all back bit by bit, sometimes paying more than I did back in '87! (I'm a bit OCD about having new or "virgin" books.)
Tell me about it! When I ETSed from the Army, and my stuff showed up in San Antonio from Ft. Bragg, two boxes were missing -- one full of books and one full of wargames. Now I'm having to replace all those books that got lost, and I'd have to win the Lotto to buy back all those wargames. (And I got reimbursed a whole $50...) While I was in the Army. my brother decided to misappropriate bunches of my stuff, including my entire Lord of the Rings collection (some 25 books), and then recently told me he wasn't going to give them back or even pay for them.
On a related tack, I've been thinking more and more lately that my kid brother needs a good ass-beating, even if he is 38 years old...
********************
pmulcahy 08-27-2008, 02:19 PM I also have a large folder on my computer with files and pdfs I've saved. I don't think it is as large as chico's tho.
Mine's approaching 120 GB...and that's just actual books. There's another 80 with RPG material, another 50 with saved web sites (like almost the whole of TR's site), about 60 with magazines, 50 with wargames... :p
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pmulcahy 08-27-2008, 02:22 PM Here's something: do you ever long for stuff that mothers, girlfriends, well-meaning friends, and (for some of you out there) wives threw out because "it didn't look useful"?
********************
Hangfire7 08-27-2008, 04:09 PM Here's something: do you ever long for stuff that mothers, girlfriends, well-meaning friends, and (for some of you out there) wives threw out because "it didn't look useful"?
ALL THE TIME!!!
My mother recounted a yardsale she had while I was deployed. Some guy asked if they had any other books. She paused, then she told him to wait a minute before dashing into my room and raiding my bookshelf. She didn't think I'd mind!!!!!! ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And then lets not forget my X. She was jealous of EVERYTHING! T2K, online, writting papper for school, everything, she even tossed alot of my T2K stuff.
********************
Targan 08-28-2008, 12:01 AM Thankfully my mum is like me, once she has a book, any book, she keeps it. So much so that I give a lot of my books to mum because I know they will be safer at her place. My mum is very cool though, as mums go, she was a racing car driver when I was a kid in New Zealand and was sponsored by Shell.
********************
Hangfire7 08-28-2008, 01:14 AM Thankfully my mum is like me, once she has a book, any book, she keeps it. So much so that I give a lot of my books to mum because I know they will be safer at her place. My mum is very cool though, as mums go, she was a racing car driver when I was a kid in New Zealand and was sponsored by Shell.
Your mum sounds like mine.
Mine just loved sky diving and took me on my first couple jumps....my dad and sister were too chicken. And well for my 21st or was it 22nd B-day she hired a stripper. Sadly she stayed there with the video camera which well made it very strange and kinda sucked because I dang near lived in a couple of those types of bars in Honolulu.
Here's to cool "mums!"
Oh, and my mum chased a phsyco army chick X girlfreind <well she thought she was my g-freind no matter how many times I said it ain't happening> with a pistol. Ah, I miss my mommy :(
********************
Raellus 08-28-2008, 07:53 PM cool thread,
I know there are some who don't like Osprey books (don't ask me why, I personally like them).
Thanks. I too am a fan of the Osprey books. As a kid, I bought them mostly for the color plates and that's still what I enjoy the most about them. I'm very visual and it helps fuel my imagination when I have good pics to look at. The quality of the text, though, varies greatly from title to title.
My favorite Osprey artists are Ron Volstad and Angus McBride. Volstad also illustrated a whole line of box covers for Dragon's 1:35 scale soldier model kits (WWII, Vietnam, Gulf Wars I & II). I wish they'd make a book collection of them all. They're really good. I've looked on line for Volstad prints or anthologies but there's nothing really out there.
********************
I'm kicking myself (hard) for getting rid of almost all of the Cold War weapons and uniforms books that I collected as a kid back in the late '80s. When I got married and no longer had an excuse to store all of my "old" stuff at my folks' house, I got rid of boxes of Cold War stuff, figuring that it was useless.
WWIII never happened, so why am I keeping all of this "hypothetical" stuff?!?
Now, I'm having to buy it all back bit by bit, sometimes paying more than I did back in '87! (I'm a bit OCD about having new or "virgin" books.)
Oh well, enough whining. What are some good non-fiction books on WWIII military tech, uniforms, org, etc?
Osprey put out some pretty cool books on late Cold War military uniforms and army organizations.
Luckily, I kept my NATO Armies Today and Inside the U.S. Army Today (both c. 1987 or so)
I also have a copy of Warsaw Pact Ground Forces (a recent buyback)
I used to have one called the Soviet Army Today. There's also one on Soviet/Warpact Elite Forces. I'm currently trying to find new copies of these titles at a reasonable price.
They also had one called something like Tank War: Central Europe that had color plates of NATO and WARPACT MBTs and crew unis as well as a detailed discussion of the respective armor tactics, training, etc. and I think some hypothetical WWIII combat descriptions.
Any other titles that may be of interest? (author slinks off to resume kicking himself)
********************
Matt Wiser 08-09-2008, 09:10 PM David Isby had a couple of books on the subject: Armies of NATO's Central Front and Armies of the Warsaw Pact, both were written around 1985 if memory serves. There was also Soviet Air/Land Battle Tactics, by Steven Zaloga, which had diagrams and maps taken from Soviet military journals. There were a series of coffee table books on modern combat, Modern Air Combat, Modern Land Combat, and Modern Naval Combat, which had plenty of illustrations, maps showing combat tactics in all three disciplines, and info on the weapons systems likely to be used in a WW III.
********************
dude_uk 08-10-2008, 04:47 AM Osprey also had a book (Back in reprint at the moment) British Army in the 1980's.
I've got quite a few on the British army 'circa the late 80's. But if anyone can recommend some more that would be great.
They also had one called something like Tank War: Central Europe that had color plates of NATO and WARPACT MBTs and crew unis as well as a detailed discussion of the respective armor tactics, training, etc. and I think some hypothetical WWIII combat descriptio
Believe this is the book that you want
Tank war central front (http://www.amazon.com/Tank-War-Central-Front-Elite-No/dp/0850459044/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1218365026&sr=8-3)
Its not too bad.
********************
chico20854 08-10-2008, 11:52 AM David Isby had a couple of books on the subject: Armies of NATO's Central Front and Armies of the Warsaw Pact, both were written around 1985 if memory serves. There was also Soviet Air/Land Battle Tactics, by Steven Zaloga, which had diagrams and maps taken from Soviet military journals. There were a series of coffee table books on modern combat, Modern Air Combat, Modern Land Combat, and Modern Naval Combat, which had plenty of illustrations, maps showing combat tactics in all three disciplines, and info on the weapons systems likely to be used in a WW III.
Isby put out 2 great ones - Armies of NATO's Central Front and Weapons and Tactics of the Soviet Army (2 editions, 1983 or so and 1989). His Armies of the Warsaw Pact was never published - he told me in an email that it was being edited for publication when the wall came down and the whole project was shelved.
Some of the dozens I have:
Suvorov's Inside the Soviet Army, Liberators, and the rest (only partially non-fiction!)
Air Battle Central Europe by Price
Ten Million Bayonets by Isby
Combat Fleets of the World 1995
Fleet Tactics by Wayne Hughes
The Sea in Soviet Strategy
Soviet Naval Tactics by Milan Vego
IISS's Military Balance 1990-1
Guide to the Soviet Navy by Polmar
Ships and Aircraft of the US Fleet also by Polmar (1987 edition)
Naval Institute Guide to World Military Aviation 1995
Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapons Systems 97-98
Armed Forces of North Korea by Bermudez
Defense Forces of Norway
South African War Machine by Heitman
Merchant Ships at War by Villar
Securing the Seas by Paul Nitze
Blind Man's Bluff by Sontag
The US Maritime Strategy by Norman Friedman
Soviet Nuclear Weapons by Cochran, Arkin, Norris & Sands
Anti-Submarine Warfare by Hill
Battle for the Fjords by Grove
and the Janes books - Armor & Artillery, Infantry Weapons, Logistics, Aircraft, Fighting Ships.
and about 4 GB of pdfs on the hard drive are specifically Cold War history.
I also spend an occaisional afternoon at the University of Maryland Library reading old copies of Janes Soviet Intelligence Review, USNI Proceedings, International Defense Review, the US Naval War College Review, Field Artillery, Armor, Infantry, Military Review and whatever else I can find...
********************
Raellus 08-10-2008, 05:28 PM There were a series of coffee table books on modern combat, Modern Air Combat, Modern Land Combat, and Modern Naval Combat, which had plenty of illustrations, maps showing combat tactics in all three disciplines, and info on the weapons systems likely to be used in a WW III.
Good call. I actually still have the latter pair! I used to have Modern Air Combat but it fell apart after much perusing. That was during my pre-teen Top Gun fanatic phase. I have two more from that series (or at least in the identical format) as well:
Modern Submarine Warfare and Modern Fighting Helicopters.
Dude UK, I've got the Osprey British Army book. I'm embarrassed that I forgot to mention it. I hope I didn't offend any of the U.K. faction by its unintentional omission.
Chico, that's quite the collection. Serious academic stuff too. Nice.
********************
copeab 08-10-2008, 06:02 PM A couple of more general books:
Dirty Little Secrets, James Dunnigan and Albert Nofi
(Random bits of information and ancedotes)
How To Make War (3rd Edition), James Dunnigan
(Published in 1993 and probably more useful to a T2K campaign than the 4th edition from 2003)
Brandon
********************
Law0369 08-10-2008, 06:40 PM Chico is the main reason we put out such good stuff,,,,, His home and person are a great wealth of experiance and knowledge...
********************
Matt Wiser 08-11-2008, 12:14 AM Anything put out by James Dunnigan and the folks at Strategypage has to be on any short list. Add to that anything from Naval Institute Press.
********************
antimedic 08-27-2008, 10:36 AM Trying to remember a Harpoon scenarios book name. I believe it was battles of the third world war, put out by gdw ib the late 80's. I think the front of it was a carrier deck lauching F14s. Any idea of the name and who wrote it?
********************
antimedic 08-27-2008, 11:45 AM Brain freeze is over. Its Battles of the Third World War by Larry Bond. Thanks for the help gang.
********************
boogiedowndonovan 08-27-2008, 02:02 PM cool thread,
I'm always on the lookout for reading material.
I know there are some who don't like Osprey books (don't ask me why, I personally like them). But another one that I like is Armies of the Gulf War (http://cgi.ebay.com/Armies-of-the-First-Gulf-War-Osprey-Book_W0QQitemZ220201359655QQihZ012QQcategoryZ10953 QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp16 38Q2em118Q2el1247), has army orbats of the US, UK, France, Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Gulf States and Iraq for Desert Storm. The US orbat is the most detailed, including USMC and SOF. I like this one because it is more current and closer to the T2k timeline than Inside the US Army Today and NATO Armies Today and presumably British Army in the 80's (I have the US Army and NATO books, but not the British Army in the 80's.)
Combined Arms miniatures rules for WIII by GDW has TOE for most NATO forces and Warsaw Pact down to the platoon level. It is a bit dated though, I think it was published in 1984, but the rules were originally written earlier?
Future Wars by Trevor Dupuy, I picked this book up in a used book store. As the title says, it is about wars in the early 21st century, all hypothetical (whew!). It goes over possible conflicts like Arab-Israeli war, Hungary vs Romania, North Korea vs South Korea, Nicaragua vs. El Salvador/Honduras/USA, China vs. Russia, breakup of the Soviet Union and a Russian Civil War and South Africa vs. Angola. I like this one for the South Africa vs. Angloa chapter. It has orbats, but I don't know how accurate they are.
I also have a large folder on my computer with files and pdfs I've saved. I don't think it is as large as chico's tho.
********************
pmulcahy 08-27-2008, 02:15 PM Now, I'm having to buy it all back bit by bit, sometimes paying more than I did back in '87! (I'm a bit OCD about having new or "virgin" books.)
Tell me about it! When I ETSed from the Army, and my stuff showed up in San Antonio from Ft. Bragg, two boxes were missing -- one full of books and one full of wargames. Now I'm having to replace all those books that got lost, and I'd have to win the Lotto to buy back all those wargames. (And I got reimbursed a whole $50...) While I was in the Army. my brother decided to misappropriate bunches of my stuff, including my entire Lord of the Rings collection (some 25 books), and then recently told me he wasn't going to give them back or even pay for them.
On a related tack, I've been thinking more and more lately that my kid brother needs a good ass-beating, even if he is 38 years old...
********************
pmulcahy 08-27-2008, 02:19 PM I also have a large folder on my computer with files and pdfs I've saved. I don't think it is as large as chico's tho.
Mine's approaching 120 GB...and that's just actual books. There's another 80 with RPG material, another 50 with saved web sites (like almost the whole of TR's site), about 60 with magazines, 50 with wargames... :p
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pmulcahy 08-27-2008, 02:22 PM Here's something: do you ever long for stuff that mothers, girlfriends, well-meaning friends, and (for some of you out there) wives threw out because "it didn't look useful"?
********************
Hangfire7 08-27-2008, 04:09 PM Here's something: do you ever long for stuff that mothers, girlfriends, well-meaning friends, and (for some of you out there) wives threw out because "it didn't look useful"?
ALL THE TIME!!!
My mother recounted a yardsale she had while I was deployed. Some guy asked if they had any other books. She paused, then she told him to wait a minute before dashing into my room and raiding my bookshelf. She didn't think I'd mind!!!!!! ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And then lets not forget my X. She was jealous of EVERYTHING! T2K, online, writting papper for school, everything, she even tossed alot of my T2K stuff.
********************
Targan 08-28-2008, 12:01 AM Thankfully my mum is like me, once she has a book, any book, she keeps it. So much so that I give a lot of my books to mum because I know they will be safer at her place. My mum is very cool though, as mums go, she was a racing car driver when I was a kid in New Zealand and was sponsored by Shell.
********************
Hangfire7 08-28-2008, 01:14 AM Thankfully my mum is like me, once she has a book, any book, she keeps it. So much so that I give a lot of my books to mum because I know they will be safer at her place. My mum is very cool though, as mums go, she was a racing car driver when I was a kid in New Zealand and was sponsored by Shell.
Your mum sounds like mine.
Mine just loved sky diving and took me on my first couple jumps....my dad and sister were too chicken. And well for my 21st or was it 22nd B-day she hired a stripper. Sadly she stayed there with the video camera which well made it very strange and kinda sucked because I dang near lived in a couple of those types of bars in Honolulu.
Here's to cool "mums!"
Oh, and my mum chased a phsyco army chick X girlfreind <well she thought she was my g-freind no matter how many times I said it ain't happening> with a pistol. Ah, I miss my mommy :(
********************
Raellus 08-28-2008, 07:53 PM cool thread,
I know there are some who don't like Osprey books (don't ask me why, I personally like them).
Thanks. I too am a fan of the Osprey books. As a kid, I bought them mostly for the color plates and that's still what I enjoy the most about them. I'm very visual and it helps fuel my imagination when I have good pics to look at. The quality of the text, though, varies greatly from title to title.
My favorite Osprey artists are Ron Volstad and Angus McBride. Volstad also illustrated a whole line of box covers for Dragon's 1:35 scale soldier model kits (WWII, Vietnam, Gulf Wars I & II). I wish they'd make a book collection of them all. They're really good. I've looked on line for Volstad prints or anthologies but there's nothing really out there.
********************