kato13
09-10-2008, 05:07 AM
Raellus 08-19-2008, 12:55 PM What NATO units are committed to Norway in '96 & '97? Are they listed in the NATO Vehicle Guide (of which I do not have a copy)?
Canon only mentions "...crack British commandos and U.S. Marines..."
I've compiled lists of U.S. and Soviet assets deployed there from the v1 U.S. and Soviet Vehicle Guides. They are quite modest and, I fear, incomplete. Did I miss anything?
U.S. Forces in Norway
6th I.D. (Light)
10th I.D. (Mtn.)
4th Marine Amphibeous Brigade (6th Marine Regiment & 2nd Marine Regiment [reinforced])
Soviet Forces in Norway
7th Guards Air Assault Division (category I)
76th GAAD (category I)
27th Naval Infantry Regiment
30th NIR
54th Guards MRD (category I)
69th MRD (category III)
64th GMRD -Kola campaign
376th GMRD -Finland, early '97
I'm having a hard time reconciling this OOB with the description of the Norway campaign in canon. The v1 timeline reads,
"In the far north, Soviet troops made a bid for quick victory in northern Norway. Most of the best Arctic-equipped divisions had already been sent east, however, and the third-line troops available were unable to break through the the paratroopers and marines landed in NATO's rear areas."
My interest is primarily in the naval engagements fought in and around the Norwegian and the North Atlantic. But, the war at sea would be significantly influenced by the war on the ground there so I'm starting with the campaign on land.
For example, two of the Soviet units involved in the invasion of Norway are Naval Infantry Regiments and canon implies that they were landed behind the front line by sea. Amphib operations would require significant naval assets in the delivery and covering roles and would undoubtedly provoke a naval response from NATO.
I'd like to create a narative of the Norway land campaign and then try to coordinate it with what the D.C. group is coming up with for the regional naval side of things. Any help would be appreciated.
Also, what were the Cold War NATO excercises held in NATO every year or two called? I can't for the life of me remember and I can't find the name with Google either.
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pmulcahy 08-19-2008, 01:05 PM And what happened to the penguin the Norwegian King's Guard has as a mascot in the Twilight War? :p
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Mohoender 08-19-2008, 01:38 PM What NATO units are committed to Norway in '96 & '97? Are they listed in the NATO Vehicle Guide (of which I do not have a copy)?
Canon only mentions "...crack British commandos and U.S. Marines..."
I've compiled lists of U.S. and Soviet assets deployed there from the v1 U.S. and Soviet Vehicle Guides. They are quite modest and, I fear, incomplete. Did I miss anything?
U.S. Forces in Norway
6th I.D. (Light)
10th I.D. (Mtn.)
4th Marine Amphibeous Brigade (6th Marine Regiment & 2nd Marine Regiment [reinforced])
Soviet Forces in Norway
7th Guards Air Assault Division (category I)
76th GAAD (category I)
27th Naval Infantry Regiment
30th NIR
54th Guards MRD (category I)
69th MRD (category III)
64th GMRD -Kola campaign
376th GMRD -Finland, early '97
I'm having a hard time reconciling this OOB with the description of the Norway campaign in canon. The v1 timeline reads,
"In the far north, Soviet troops made a bid for quick victory in northern Norway. Most of the best Arctic-equipped divisions had already been sent east, however, and the third-line troops available were unable to break through the the paratroopers and marines landed in NATO's rear areas."
My interest is primarily in the naval engagements fought in and around the Norwegian and the North Atlantic. But, the war at sea would be significantly influenced by the war on the ground there so I'm starting with the campaign on land.
For example, two of the Soviet units involved in the invasion of Norway are Naval Infantry Regiments and canon implies that they were landed behind the front line by sea. Amphib operations would require significant naval assets in the delivery and covering roles and would undoubtedly provoke a naval response from NATO.
I'd like to create a narative of the Norway land campaign and then try to coordinate it with what the D.C. group is coming up with for the regional naval side of things. Any help would be appreciated.
Also, what were the Cold War NATO excercises held in NATO every year or two called? I can't for the life of me remember and I can't find the name with Google either.
Hi
Here is all that I gathered on Norway from your forum over time. Beside I thinks antennas web site is still on. look under NDP. About naval fighting my uinderstanding was that the entire soviet fleet was destroyed in the area but a typhoon sub was still around. Sorry I don't have anything more. Don't know if it helps.
http://www.ludd.ltu.se/~antenna/t2k/index.htm
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chico20854 08-19-2008, 08:32 PM As far as the rest of the NATO Corps in Norway (you've ID'd the US units):
-possibly a light Canadian brigade as reinforcements in the summer of 1997 (Deacon is working on this unit).
-British parachute/SAS units.
-Norwegians:
Brigade Nord
5, 6, 14, 15th Brigades
local defense units and possibly other reserve reinforcements from southern Norway
-Dutch: 1st Marine Group,
W Company 45th RM Commando
-NATO AMF(L): deployed to Norway at the start of the war, prior to Italy, Greece & Belgium leaving NATO. We've got it composed of a Luxembourg Infanty Battalion, an Italian Mountain Infantry Bn, a Canadian light mech infantry Bn, a US LARS rocket battery and a Canadian 105mm howitzer battery. This would be restructured following the arrival of the Canadian brigade HQ & Italy's departure from NATO. We've posited that the right-wing Italian commander refuses to evacuate from action on the orders of a left-wing government back home and the Italian unit remains in theater fighting, loyal to NATO.
The Soviets had up there:
2nd Guards "Perekop" Artillery Division (Pushkin)
61st Independent "Kirkenes" Marine Brigade (Sputnik/Murmansk)
175th Independent Marine Brigade (Tumannyy, Kola Peninsula)
36th Air Assault Brigade (Garbolovo)
18th Combined Arms Army (Leningrad)
-63rd Guards 'Krasnoselyesk' Training Motor-Rifle Division (Sertolotovo, Leningrad Oblast)
-115th Guards "Vitebsk" Motor-Rifle Division (Valdai)
-229th Rear-Area Protection Division (Vologda)
-251st Spare Motor-Rifle Division (Ivanteyevo)
26th Army Korps (Arkhangelsk)
-69th "Sevsk" Motor-Rifle Division (Vologda)
-77th Guards "Moscow-Chernigov" Motor-Rifle Division (Arkhangelsk)
6th Combined Arms Army (Petrozavodsk)
-37th Motor-Rifle Division (Nagornyy)
-54th Motor-Rifle Division (Alakurtti)
-71st "Torunskaya" Motor-Rifle Division (Petrozavodsk)
-111th Motor-Rifle Division (Sortavala)
-131st "Pechenga" Motor-Rifle Division (Murmansk)
PM me if you want the divisional makeup, readiness categories and Army and front-level independent brigades, regiments & battalions. You can also assume one or more airborne divisions would be released for operations in the theater, most likely the 76th in nearby Pskov and 7th from Kaunas, Lithuania. To keep with canon, we'll likely pull some units for service in China...
I'm still working on the Soviet air forces (Frontal Aviation, PVO, Long-range Aviation & Naval Aviation) in the NW TVD.
My website has the USAF & Norwegian air force orbats on it.
Oh, an edit: the NATO exercises were Teamwork '88 and so on...
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Law0369 08-19-2008, 09:12 PM I was tasked in the D.C working group to do the USMC order of battle. I have 2d MEB Moving into norway for the Marines. They were trained for cold weather operations in the 80' and early 90's and have a special order of battle that was task orginised for Norway. The back bone of the Brigade is 2d Marine Regiment with about 3,200 Combat troops; a composite Aircraft group from the 2d MAW. They would also be supported by Logistic elements from 2d FSSG. The total on troops would be around 9,000. The were trained to deploy by aircraft to Norway to site's manned by a USMC Landing Support unit to draw gear from storage areas in Norway. Tests of operations not under fire or in combat had this drill down to 48 hours for combat units being ready and 72 hours for support units and 96 hours for air elements. All these times are for when the troops first hit the deck in Norway.
2d MEB (Task Force Tarawa)
HQ Company MEB
2d Marine Regiment (RLT 2)
HQ Company
Tow PLt (24 M220 TOW/4 MK-19)
Recon Plt
1/2 (8 M220,24 M47 Dragon, 8 M252, 6 MK-19, 6 M2, 9 M224,30 M60E3)
2/2
3/2
A co 2d LAR (14 LAV-25,4 LAV-AT,4 LAV-M, 4 LAV-L)
A co 2d Tanks (22 M1A1)
A co 2d Recon BN
A co 2d CEB
A co 2d Tracks (42 AAV)
1/10 (Arty Bn) (18 M198)
This is just a sample of what we will be providing with details to unit str. I have written complete Bios's down to the MEB level on units.
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Raellus 08-19-2008, 10:31 PM Thanks for all of the info guys. I'm going to do some more research on the geography of northern Norway before I start writing up any campaign narratives. (Is that what you mean by unit bios, Law?)
Here are a couple of ideas that I would like some feedback on.
First off, to deploy their Naval Infantry amphibiously, the Soviets would need some degree of local control of the Norwegian Sea. Otherwise, their slow, vulnerable transports and their escorts would be decimated by carrier based air attack and/or NATO surface and submarine elements.
Is it possible that this could be an opportunity for a single USN carrier task force/battle group to be taken by surprise and overwhelmed? I mean at the outset of hostilities, that is. Prior to open warfare, NATO would likely have a naval task force in the vicinity as a deterrent/first responder. With operational surprise, the Soviets could potentially knock it out of action using the afore-mentioned combined ARM/ASM strike. Throw in a couple of subs, and you'd have enough confusion and supersonic hot metal in the air to do some serious damage.
This would clear the way for amphib landings up around Hammerfest or even Narvik as hinted at in canon. The Sovs would still take some casualties at sea, but enough ships would get through to deliver most of the Naval Infantry troops mentioned in canon.
Second, for the Soviets to airdrop two arimobile divisions, they would need at least local air superiority. Otherwise, those Il-76 transport planes would be dead meat. With NATO's superior pilots and aircraft, I don't see the Soviets accomplishing this via conventional means.
Perhaps a Spetznaz team could infiltrate one of the northern Norwegian airbases- preferably one relatively isolated from any civilian population centers- and employ a fast acting, quick dispersing nerve agent to kill or incapacitate critical base personel. Then a Guards Air Assault Division could be airlifted directly onto the airfield before NATO air assets could muster a response, capturing it and deploying from there. It's possible but I'm not sure if it's plausible. Using chem weapons- if NATO ever discovered exactly what happened- would be an automatic escalation from a purely conventional war; a step down the road to MAD, if you will. But, it would allow the Soviets to accomplish something that would otherwise be impossible- an air drop in contested airspace.
Coordinating the two ops- the anti-carrier strike and the airbase seizure- while achieving surprise for both would be incredibly difficult. I just can't think of any other way for the Soviets to get ground troops (NIRs and GAADs) past NATO's superior air and sea forces.
Call it a Norwegian Pearl Harbor.
Too far fetched? What do you think? Any other ideas as to how the Soviets could drop one or two GAADs without getting torn to pieces before the chutes hit the ground?
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Mohoender 08-19-2008, 11:01 PM I like the idea of the carrier group taken by surprise. Especially as soviet air force can intervene fast in this region.
About the transports, the soviet had some good landing ship at the time and I think you should not forget about Hovercraft (Aist-class...), and why not an ekanocrane.
The air drop is more tricky. Difficult to achieve air superiority and the base option is an idea so. However, it might have been possible for them to achieve air superiority momentarily if they were willing to sacrifice enough plane and pilots. They also might have benefited from weather conditions.
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Targan 08-19-2008, 11:48 PM We've posited that the right-wing Italian commander refuses to evacuate from action on the orders of a left-wing government back home and the Italian unit remains in theater fighting, loyal to NATO.I like that idea. Like it alot. Its those sorts of poignant little stories that really make T2K what it is IMO.
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boogiedowndonovan 08-20-2008, 01:38 AM You might want to pick up a copy of Boomer (part two of the Last Submarine Trilogy). It devotes 3 pages to the timeline in Norway (vs the brief mentions in the timelines included with the v1 or v2.x rulebooks).
briefly:
when the Bundeswher crossed the inter German border, the Norwegian King calls a state of emergency and the parliament passes emergency measures allowing NATO to station troops in Norway. November 1st 1996, US sends detachments from 6th Marines and the 10th LID. UK sends SAS, paras and Royal Marines and Canada sends a detachment from the Canadian Airborne Regiment. (Unfortunately Boomer isn't specific regarding the UK and Canadian reinforcements.)
In late 1996, Soviets move into Northern Norway. Soviet Spetznaz and Naval Infantry make some raids, a battalion of Naval Infantry occupy Narvik for 3 weeks before being wiped out. Norwegian 3rd, 5th and 10th regiments plus Norwegian 2nd Dragoons and US 10th Infantry stop the Soviets at Bardufoss. 50th Guards Motorized Division suffers heavy casualties and is withdrawn.
December 1996, more NATO reinforcements (UK 2 Para, UK 2nd Royal Green Jackets, US 4th Marine Expeditionary Brigade and US 6th Infantry Division. NATO pushes the Soviets out of Norway. NATO drives into Russia but is stopped at the Litsa River, 69th Motorized Rifle Division suffers heavy casualties.
more fighting, 7th Guards Air Assault and 376th Guards Motorized Rifles suffer heavy casualties. somewhere along the line, the 376th Guards Motorized Rifles turns marauder (per the listing in the Soviet Vehicle Guide).
As for Allied Mobile Force, in real life, it was comprised of Belgian, British, Canadian, West German, Italian, Luxembourg, US and Spanish forces. I'd throw in the Belgian Para-Commando Regiment. I'm note sure if the entire Para-Commando Regiment was slated for Norway or if only one of the battalions was for Norway. I never agreed with the canon depiction of Belgium, so in my campaign, Belgium honors its commitments. You could also throw in a Spanish Para battalion or one of the Spanish mountain battalions. Or how about a Spanish Foreign Legion Bandera (Viva La Muerta!)
In regards to the Canadians, 5th Brigade (Canada Air/Sea Transportable) was originally slated for deployment to Norway, but the Canadians decided that with their limited logistic capabilities, it would be better for 5th Brigade to deploy to Europe and form 1st Canadian Division with 4th Brigade. If I recall, AMF was created to fill in the hole created when it was decided that 5th Brigade would go to Europe.
In my campaign, NATO deploys the following forces to Norway:
US:
10th Light Infantry Division
6th Light Infantry Division
4th Marine Expeditionary Brigade
UK:
3rd Royal Marine Commando Brigade (includes Netherlands 1st Marine Group and Netherlands W Company)
2 Para
2nd Royal Green Jackets (Light Role and part of AMF)
Canada:
Special Service Force (Canadian Airborne Regiment, 1st battalion Princess Patricia's Light Infantry, 2nd battalion Royal Canadian Horse Artillery and Royal Canadian Dragoons)
1st battalion Princess Patricia's Light Infantry (part of AMF)
Belgium:
Para-Commando Regiment (the entire regiment deploys)
Luxembourg:
1st Light Infantry Battalion (part of AMF)
I left out the Italians, per canon. But I do like Chico's idea regarding the 'renegade' Italian commander. The Germans were supposed to send a Fallschirmjager battalion and attached artillery battery as their contribution to AMF, but these are all currently in combat vs the Soviets in Eastern Germany when AMP deploys to Norway.
oh and one thing you might also want to check out is the 1989 NATO Order of Battle, now up to version 8.2 over at Tanknet.
http://63.99.108.76/forums/index.php?showtopic=2041
-bdd
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thefusilier 08-20-2008, 02:17 AM For the Canadians it can be quite varied. As said this was during a time when the mission there was being reevaluated and changes made.
I would expect for the game to have the 5th Bde to deploy to Germany to work with the 4th.
Anyone going to Norway would be the AB Regiment, and maybe the SSF (but that was being done away with too). If so perhaps just an infantry battalion and arty unit (along with the AB Regt).
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thefusilier 08-20-2008, 02:20 AM For the Canadians it can be quite varied. As said this was during a time when the mission there was being reevaluated and changes made.
I would expect for the game to have the 5th Bde to deploy to Germany to work with the 4th.
Anyone going to Norway would be the AB Regiment, and maybe the SSF (but that was being done away with too). If so perhaps just an infantry battalion and arty unit (along with the AB Regt).
4th Marine Amphibeous Brigade (6th Marine Regiment & 2nd Marine Regiment [reinforced])
6th went to the Med.
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Gen.Lee 08-20-2008, 01:03 PM I'll mention the now-old GDW boardgame "Arctic Front." It was part of their Third World War series, and I considered it a great resource for T2k. Of course, since it came from the same company at the same time, the research is rather similar.
Mine is boxed away with all my other WW3 wargames, but from what I recall, its OB looks like what I've seen of yours.
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FightingFlamingo 08-20-2008, 01:29 PM The DC group has actively been modifying GDW's TWW system for the Twilight war... and something we have completed is the Royal Norwegian Army's OOB as of Nov 1996. So here it is in TWW terms...
Norwegian Army
Nord oAB 2-3-7/NO G: 1102
Sør-Norge oAB 2-3-7/1 NO F: 0912
Vestlandet MtnB 1-1-7/NO F: 0305
1 IB 1-1-6/1 NO F: 0612
3 IB 1-1-6/1 NO G: 2423
5 IB 1-1-6/1 NO G: 0502
6 oMtnB 1-3-7/1 NO F: 0711
7 IB 1-1-6/1 NO F: 0211
8 IB 1-1-6/1 NO B: 2316
12 oAB 2-3-6/1 NO F: 0712
13 IB 1-2-6/1 NO F: 1805
14 oIB 1-2-6/NO F: 2403
15 oIB 1-2-6/1 NO F1902
HMKG IR 1-1-7/NO F: 0712
Möre IR 0-1-6/1 NO F: 1003
Finnmark MtnR 1-1-7/NO G: 2106
Oslofjord IR 1-1-7/NO F:0611
Porsanger oMtnR 1-2-7/NO G: 2107
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Law0369 08-20-2008, 01:36 PM Cannon is off on how certian units would be deployed from certian countrys due to the game designers lack of resources when it came to unit missions and size. Things we can get easy off the net now they could only dream about. that is what set us as a group( D.C.) to go around and tweak cannon to fix how certian things went. case in point is the 6th Marine regiment they were trained as jungle fighters for the Panama reinforce mission that they did do in operation Just cause (BLT 2/6). For them to be the first unit to Norway is kind of crazy. Most of us here are pretty smart and if givin the choice who would you send? So we have sat down and gone over every unit and tried to make a history and make it beleaveable to you here. The last time I posted; Frank Frey came on here and said "shit you guys have great stuff here keep it going better then we did". So that is a testament to us all here to keep thinking and putting out good info. So all here keep it up and keep the debate going.
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Raellus 08-20-2008, 08:49 PM Thanks for the info BDD. I hadn't thought to look at Boomer.
In late 1996, Soviets move into Northern Norway. Soviet Spetznaz and Naval Infantry make some raids, a battalion of Naval Infantry occupy Narvik for 3 weeks before being wiped out.
-bdd
Once again, this occupation of Narvik strongly implies an amphib operation. That would require at least temporary local air superiority and control of the sea spaces leading to and around Narvik. They simply couldn't accomplish this under the noses of a NATO carrier battlegroup/task force. This suggests some initial Soviet naval success in the region.
Like, for example, "ambushing" a U.S. carrier patrolling the area...
Quickly seizing a northern Norwegian airfield at the outset would allow the Soviets a little more room to manouver as far as providing land-based air cover for ground and sea ops as well as slipping Backfire anti-carrier/anti-shipping raids into the North Atlantic.
No one's commented on my nerve gas idea. It's the only way I can think of for the Soviets to seize said airfield quickly and intact. No one's ever even attempted a para-drop in the face of a modern air defense system (AWACS, fighters, modern SAMS, etc.).
Go ahead, I can take it! ; )
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Mohoender 08-20-2008, 11:30 PM Thanks for the info BDD. I hadn't thought to look at Boomer.
Once again, this occupation of Narvik strongly implies an amphib operation. That would require at least temporary local air superiority and control of the sea spaces leading to and around Narvik. They simply couldn't accomplish this under the noses of a NATO carrier battlegroup/task force. This suggests some initial Soviet naval success in the region.
Like, for example, "ambushing" a U.S. carrier patrolling the area...
Quickly seizing a northern Norwegian airfield at the outset would allow the Soviets a little more room to manouver as far as providing land-based air cover for ground and sea ops as well as slipping Backfire anti-carrier/anti-shipping raids into the North Atlantic.
No one's commented on my nerve gas idea. It's the only way I can think of for the Soviets to seize said airfield quickly and intact. No one's ever even attempted a para-drop in the face of a modern air defense system (AWACS, fighters, modern SAMS, etc.).
Go ahead, I can take it! ; )
Why not for the nerve gas, Russians have always been good at that. Concerning airfield, Banak would have been seized anyway through land operation. The only airfield that can be concerned are Andoya and Bardufoss. I would pick up Bardufoss as it is the opening gate to Narvik but Andoya is on an island and might represent some advantages for that reason (and as many drawbacks). Check the scramble website.
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General Pain 08-21-2008, 03:51 AM I have been thinking of making a norway t2k oob/sourcebook....but time hasn't allowed it for the moment...
I was wondering if my fellow t2k'rs in this forum had an opinion on sweden in t2k....will they try to be neutral/cowards (no offense) as they were in ww2?
I guess they wouldn't since they actually have a pretty decent arms-industry...
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Mohoender 08-21-2008, 04:15 AM I have been thinking of making a norway t2k oob/sourcebook....but time hasn't allowed it for the moment...
I was wondering if my fellow t2k'rs in this forum had an opinion on sweden in t2k....will they try to be neutral/cowards (no offense) as they were in ww2?
I guess they wouldn't since they actually have a pretty decent arms-industry...
You can check Antenna's website, he has a lot of material on scandinavia
http://www.ludd.ltu.se/~antenna/m2k/index.htm
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thefusilier 08-21-2008, 04:42 AM I would pick up Bardufoss as it is the opening gate to Narvik but Andoya is on an island and might represent some advantages for that reason (and as many drawbacks). Check the scramble website.
Bardufoss is held by NATO.
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Targan 08-21-2008, 04:51 AM You can check Antenna's website, he has a lot of material on scandinaviaAntenna, like Paul, is a T2K legend IMO. Both their sites have proved very useful to me.
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Mohoender 08-21-2008, 05:44 AM Bardufoss is held by NATO.
True but if Bardufoss is still held by NATO, he is right how can the Russians have taken Narvik? Moreover, Bardufoss would be a serious thorn for them, I don't even see how they could have maintained any troop in Norway.
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thefusilier 08-21-2008, 05:48 AM True but if Bardufoss is still held by NATO, he is right how can the Russians have taken Narvik?
Marines and paratroops... then he lost it quickly.
I don't even see how they could have maintained any troop in Norway.
Thats why they lost it and NATO infantry and marines went on into Finland and got trashed there instead.
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Mohoender 08-21-2008, 05:48 AM Antenna, like Paul, is a T2K legend IMO. Both their sites have proved very useful to me.
I know and sorry my fault I haven't made myself clear. However I don't know who is who yet and the only think I wanted to say is that he has done the best job about that subject in my opinion. I entirely bought what he said (at least most of it) and really I made his idea mine. Then giving a personnal idea on Norway would be cheating somehow :cells:
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Jason Weiser 08-23-2008, 09:32 AM Well,
Sorry I am late with my three cents but I figure since I am handling the Soviet political and some of the military end (now this is also dependent on the details for the Norwegian Sea battle that Chico, FF, Law and I work out, so it is a work in progress.)
My take is that the Soviets by 1996 are in a big bind mostly of their own making. The spring offensive in China has ended in a blood-soaked debacle, the Germans have tied down even more troops in Germany that are needed in China simply to maintain the current situation, let alone consider another offensive, and now, NATO has activated REFORGER and American troops and equipment are moving fairly unmolested across the Atlantic, not at all what the Soviets would have hoped for and certainly not something that bodes well for the Soviets. In the Politburo, those loyal to Sauronski are arguing that Danilov has completely screwed up, and now, the West is preparing to administer the killing blow to Soviet socialism. Danilov himself is grasping at straws, attempting to both forestall the coming coup as well as turn the wars in China and Germany off. The Chinese and Germans, smelling a measure of blood, are in no mood to talk things over in Geneva, and the West, in the wake of the Leipzig Massacre, aren't in the mood to pressure either the Germans or the Chinese to the table.
Thus, STAVKA is looking at the unmolested reinforcement of Europe with alarm, and has been pressing the Politburo for action for some time, but with the paralysis at the top in the wake of the Spring Offensive in China and the Germans crossing the IGB, decisions aren't forthcoming. When the decision does come in November, it is made by Danilov, who decides that a swift, decisive action in Norway would allow the Soviets to sortie the Red Banner Northern Fleet relatively unmolested, and would allow them to interdict the heretofore unmolested US supply chain to Germany. Such a threat might then force the US and NATO to pressure Germany and China to the table. Such an action might have met with success in the late summer and early fall of 1996, but by November, it was obvious that NATO had heavily reinforced Norway, but the Soviets felt that the attempt had to be made, STAVKA gave the plan a less than thirty percent chance of success. But, even STAVKA had no idea how much of a fiasco Norway was to turn into.
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Raellus 08-23-2008, 01:50 PM Well,
... a swift, decisive action in Norway would allow the Soviets to sortie the Red Banner Northern Fleet relatively unmolested, and would allow them to interdict the heretofore unmolested US supply chain to Germany. Such a threat might then force the US and NATO to pressure Germany and China to the table. Such an action might have met with success in the late summer and early fall of 1996, but by November, it was obvious that NATO had heavily reinforced Norway, but the Soviets felt that the attempt had to be made, STAVKA gave the plan a less than thirty percent chance of success. But, even STAVKA had no idea how much of a fiasco Norway was to turn into.
This is exactly the way I see the Norway campaign starting out as well.
Also on the political tip, I know that Denmark is innitially reluctant to actively support the NATO war effort in central Europe. Perhaps the Soviet invasion of Norway coupled with Soviet raids on U.S. leased airbases in Greenland push Denmark into a more active role.
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Canon only mentions "...crack British commandos and U.S. Marines..."
I've compiled lists of U.S. and Soviet assets deployed there from the v1 U.S. and Soviet Vehicle Guides. They are quite modest and, I fear, incomplete. Did I miss anything?
U.S. Forces in Norway
6th I.D. (Light)
10th I.D. (Mtn.)
4th Marine Amphibeous Brigade (6th Marine Regiment & 2nd Marine Regiment [reinforced])
Soviet Forces in Norway
7th Guards Air Assault Division (category I)
76th GAAD (category I)
27th Naval Infantry Regiment
30th NIR
54th Guards MRD (category I)
69th MRD (category III)
64th GMRD -Kola campaign
376th GMRD -Finland, early '97
I'm having a hard time reconciling this OOB with the description of the Norway campaign in canon. The v1 timeline reads,
"In the far north, Soviet troops made a bid for quick victory in northern Norway. Most of the best Arctic-equipped divisions had already been sent east, however, and the third-line troops available were unable to break through the the paratroopers and marines landed in NATO's rear areas."
My interest is primarily in the naval engagements fought in and around the Norwegian and the North Atlantic. But, the war at sea would be significantly influenced by the war on the ground there so I'm starting with the campaign on land.
For example, two of the Soviet units involved in the invasion of Norway are Naval Infantry Regiments and canon implies that they were landed behind the front line by sea. Amphib operations would require significant naval assets in the delivery and covering roles and would undoubtedly provoke a naval response from NATO.
I'd like to create a narative of the Norway land campaign and then try to coordinate it with what the D.C. group is coming up with for the regional naval side of things. Any help would be appreciated.
Also, what were the Cold War NATO excercises held in NATO every year or two called? I can't for the life of me remember and I can't find the name with Google either.
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pmulcahy 08-19-2008, 01:05 PM And what happened to the penguin the Norwegian King's Guard has as a mascot in the Twilight War? :p
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Mohoender 08-19-2008, 01:38 PM What NATO units are committed to Norway in '96 & '97? Are they listed in the NATO Vehicle Guide (of which I do not have a copy)?
Canon only mentions "...crack British commandos and U.S. Marines..."
I've compiled lists of U.S. and Soviet assets deployed there from the v1 U.S. and Soviet Vehicle Guides. They are quite modest and, I fear, incomplete. Did I miss anything?
U.S. Forces in Norway
6th I.D. (Light)
10th I.D. (Mtn.)
4th Marine Amphibeous Brigade (6th Marine Regiment & 2nd Marine Regiment [reinforced])
Soviet Forces in Norway
7th Guards Air Assault Division (category I)
76th GAAD (category I)
27th Naval Infantry Regiment
30th NIR
54th Guards MRD (category I)
69th MRD (category III)
64th GMRD -Kola campaign
376th GMRD -Finland, early '97
I'm having a hard time reconciling this OOB with the description of the Norway campaign in canon. The v1 timeline reads,
"In the far north, Soviet troops made a bid for quick victory in northern Norway. Most of the best Arctic-equipped divisions had already been sent east, however, and the third-line troops available were unable to break through the the paratroopers and marines landed in NATO's rear areas."
My interest is primarily in the naval engagements fought in and around the Norwegian and the North Atlantic. But, the war at sea would be significantly influenced by the war on the ground there so I'm starting with the campaign on land.
For example, two of the Soviet units involved in the invasion of Norway are Naval Infantry Regiments and canon implies that they were landed behind the front line by sea. Amphib operations would require significant naval assets in the delivery and covering roles and would undoubtedly provoke a naval response from NATO.
I'd like to create a narative of the Norway land campaign and then try to coordinate it with what the D.C. group is coming up with for the regional naval side of things. Any help would be appreciated.
Also, what were the Cold War NATO excercises held in NATO every year or two called? I can't for the life of me remember and I can't find the name with Google either.
Hi
Here is all that I gathered on Norway from your forum over time. Beside I thinks antennas web site is still on. look under NDP. About naval fighting my uinderstanding was that the entire soviet fleet was destroyed in the area but a typhoon sub was still around. Sorry I don't have anything more. Don't know if it helps.
http://www.ludd.ltu.se/~antenna/t2k/index.htm
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chico20854 08-19-2008, 08:32 PM As far as the rest of the NATO Corps in Norway (you've ID'd the US units):
-possibly a light Canadian brigade as reinforcements in the summer of 1997 (Deacon is working on this unit).
-British parachute/SAS units.
-Norwegians:
Brigade Nord
5, 6, 14, 15th Brigades
local defense units and possibly other reserve reinforcements from southern Norway
-Dutch: 1st Marine Group,
W Company 45th RM Commando
-NATO AMF(L): deployed to Norway at the start of the war, prior to Italy, Greece & Belgium leaving NATO. We've got it composed of a Luxembourg Infanty Battalion, an Italian Mountain Infantry Bn, a Canadian light mech infantry Bn, a US LARS rocket battery and a Canadian 105mm howitzer battery. This would be restructured following the arrival of the Canadian brigade HQ & Italy's departure from NATO. We've posited that the right-wing Italian commander refuses to evacuate from action on the orders of a left-wing government back home and the Italian unit remains in theater fighting, loyal to NATO.
The Soviets had up there:
2nd Guards "Perekop" Artillery Division (Pushkin)
61st Independent "Kirkenes" Marine Brigade (Sputnik/Murmansk)
175th Independent Marine Brigade (Tumannyy, Kola Peninsula)
36th Air Assault Brigade (Garbolovo)
18th Combined Arms Army (Leningrad)
-63rd Guards 'Krasnoselyesk' Training Motor-Rifle Division (Sertolotovo, Leningrad Oblast)
-115th Guards "Vitebsk" Motor-Rifle Division (Valdai)
-229th Rear-Area Protection Division (Vologda)
-251st Spare Motor-Rifle Division (Ivanteyevo)
26th Army Korps (Arkhangelsk)
-69th "Sevsk" Motor-Rifle Division (Vologda)
-77th Guards "Moscow-Chernigov" Motor-Rifle Division (Arkhangelsk)
6th Combined Arms Army (Petrozavodsk)
-37th Motor-Rifle Division (Nagornyy)
-54th Motor-Rifle Division (Alakurtti)
-71st "Torunskaya" Motor-Rifle Division (Petrozavodsk)
-111th Motor-Rifle Division (Sortavala)
-131st "Pechenga" Motor-Rifle Division (Murmansk)
PM me if you want the divisional makeup, readiness categories and Army and front-level independent brigades, regiments & battalions. You can also assume one or more airborne divisions would be released for operations in the theater, most likely the 76th in nearby Pskov and 7th from Kaunas, Lithuania. To keep with canon, we'll likely pull some units for service in China...
I'm still working on the Soviet air forces (Frontal Aviation, PVO, Long-range Aviation & Naval Aviation) in the NW TVD.
My website has the USAF & Norwegian air force orbats on it.
Oh, an edit: the NATO exercises were Teamwork '88 and so on...
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Law0369 08-19-2008, 09:12 PM I was tasked in the D.C working group to do the USMC order of battle. I have 2d MEB Moving into norway for the Marines. They were trained for cold weather operations in the 80' and early 90's and have a special order of battle that was task orginised for Norway. The back bone of the Brigade is 2d Marine Regiment with about 3,200 Combat troops; a composite Aircraft group from the 2d MAW. They would also be supported by Logistic elements from 2d FSSG. The total on troops would be around 9,000. The were trained to deploy by aircraft to Norway to site's manned by a USMC Landing Support unit to draw gear from storage areas in Norway. Tests of operations not under fire or in combat had this drill down to 48 hours for combat units being ready and 72 hours for support units and 96 hours for air elements. All these times are for when the troops first hit the deck in Norway.
2d MEB (Task Force Tarawa)
HQ Company MEB
2d Marine Regiment (RLT 2)
HQ Company
Tow PLt (24 M220 TOW/4 MK-19)
Recon Plt
1/2 (8 M220,24 M47 Dragon, 8 M252, 6 MK-19, 6 M2, 9 M224,30 M60E3)
2/2
3/2
A co 2d LAR (14 LAV-25,4 LAV-AT,4 LAV-M, 4 LAV-L)
A co 2d Tanks (22 M1A1)
A co 2d Recon BN
A co 2d CEB
A co 2d Tracks (42 AAV)
1/10 (Arty Bn) (18 M198)
This is just a sample of what we will be providing with details to unit str. I have written complete Bios's down to the MEB level on units.
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Raellus 08-19-2008, 10:31 PM Thanks for all of the info guys. I'm going to do some more research on the geography of northern Norway before I start writing up any campaign narratives. (Is that what you mean by unit bios, Law?)
Here are a couple of ideas that I would like some feedback on.
First off, to deploy their Naval Infantry amphibiously, the Soviets would need some degree of local control of the Norwegian Sea. Otherwise, their slow, vulnerable transports and their escorts would be decimated by carrier based air attack and/or NATO surface and submarine elements.
Is it possible that this could be an opportunity for a single USN carrier task force/battle group to be taken by surprise and overwhelmed? I mean at the outset of hostilities, that is. Prior to open warfare, NATO would likely have a naval task force in the vicinity as a deterrent/first responder. With operational surprise, the Soviets could potentially knock it out of action using the afore-mentioned combined ARM/ASM strike. Throw in a couple of subs, and you'd have enough confusion and supersonic hot metal in the air to do some serious damage.
This would clear the way for amphib landings up around Hammerfest or even Narvik as hinted at in canon. The Sovs would still take some casualties at sea, but enough ships would get through to deliver most of the Naval Infantry troops mentioned in canon.
Second, for the Soviets to airdrop two arimobile divisions, they would need at least local air superiority. Otherwise, those Il-76 transport planes would be dead meat. With NATO's superior pilots and aircraft, I don't see the Soviets accomplishing this via conventional means.
Perhaps a Spetznaz team could infiltrate one of the northern Norwegian airbases- preferably one relatively isolated from any civilian population centers- and employ a fast acting, quick dispersing nerve agent to kill or incapacitate critical base personel. Then a Guards Air Assault Division could be airlifted directly onto the airfield before NATO air assets could muster a response, capturing it and deploying from there. It's possible but I'm not sure if it's plausible. Using chem weapons- if NATO ever discovered exactly what happened- would be an automatic escalation from a purely conventional war; a step down the road to MAD, if you will. But, it would allow the Soviets to accomplish something that would otherwise be impossible- an air drop in contested airspace.
Coordinating the two ops- the anti-carrier strike and the airbase seizure- while achieving surprise for both would be incredibly difficult. I just can't think of any other way for the Soviets to get ground troops (NIRs and GAADs) past NATO's superior air and sea forces.
Call it a Norwegian Pearl Harbor.
Too far fetched? What do you think? Any other ideas as to how the Soviets could drop one or two GAADs without getting torn to pieces before the chutes hit the ground?
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Mohoender 08-19-2008, 11:01 PM I like the idea of the carrier group taken by surprise. Especially as soviet air force can intervene fast in this region.
About the transports, the soviet had some good landing ship at the time and I think you should not forget about Hovercraft (Aist-class...), and why not an ekanocrane.
The air drop is more tricky. Difficult to achieve air superiority and the base option is an idea so. However, it might have been possible for them to achieve air superiority momentarily if they were willing to sacrifice enough plane and pilots. They also might have benefited from weather conditions.
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Targan 08-19-2008, 11:48 PM We've posited that the right-wing Italian commander refuses to evacuate from action on the orders of a left-wing government back home and the Italian unit remains in theater fighting, loyal to NATO.I like that idea. Like it alot. Its those sorts of poignant little stories that really make T2K what it is IMO.
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boogiedowndonovan 08-20-2008, 01:38 AM You might want to pick up a copy of Boomer (part two of the Last Submarine Trilogy). It devotes 3 pages to the timeline in Norway (vs the brief mentions in the timelines included with the v1 or v2.x rulebooks).
briefly:
when the Bundeswher crossed the inter German border, the Norwegian King calls a state of emergency and the parliament passes emergency measures allowing NATO to station troops in Norway. November 1st 1996, US sends detachments from 6th Marines and the 10th LID. UK sends SAS, paras and Royal Marines and Canada sends a detachment from the Canadian Airborne Regiment. (Unfortunately Boomer isn't specific regarding the UK and Canadian reinforcements.)
In late 1996, Soviets move into Northern Norway. Soviet Spetznaz and Naval Infantry make some raids, a battalion of Naval Infantry occupy Narvik for 3 weeks before being wiped out. Norwegian 3rd, 5th and 10th regiments plus Norwegian 2nd Dragoons and US 10th Infantry stop the Soviets at Bardufoss. 50th Guards Motorized Division suffers heavy casualties and is withdrawn.
December 1996, more NATO reinforcements (UK 2 Para, UK 2nd Royal Green Jackets, US 4th Marine Expeditionary Brigade and US 6th Infantry Division. NATO pushes the Soviets out of Norway. NATO drives into Russia but is stopped at the Litsa River, 69th Motorized Rifle Division suffers heavy casualties.
more fighting, 7th Guards Air Assault and 376th Guards Motorized Rifles suffer heavy casualties. somewhere along the line, the 376th Guards Motorized Rifles turns marauder (per the listing in the Soviet Vehicle Guide).
As for Allied Mobile Force, in real life, it was comprised of Belgian, British, Canadian, West German, Italian, Luxembourg, US and Spanish forces. I'd throw in the Belgian Para-Commando Regiment. I'm note sure if the entire Para-Commando Regiment was slated for Norway or if only one of the battalions was for Norway. I never agreed with the canon depiction of Belgium, so in my campaign, Belgium honors its commitments. You could also throw in a Spanish Para battalion or one of the Spanish mountain battalions. Or how about a Spanish Foreign Legion Bandera (Viva La Muerta!)
In regards to the Canadians, 5th Brigade (Canada Air/Sea Transportable) was originally slated for deployment to Norway, but the Canadians decided that with their limited logistic capabilities, it would be better for 5th Brigade to deploy to Europe and form 1st Canadian Division with 4th Brigade. If I recall, AMF was created to fill in the hole created when it was decided that 5th Brigade would go to Europe.
In my campaign, NATO deploys the following forces to Norway:
US:
10th Light Infantry Division
6th Light Infantry Division
4th Marine Expeditionary Brigade
UK:
3rd Royal Marine Commando Brigade (includes Netherlands 1st Marine Group and Netherlands W Company)
2 Para
2nd Royal Green Jackets (Light Role and part of AMF)
Canada:
Special Service Force (Canadian Airborne Regiment, 1st battalion Princess Patricia's Light Infantry, 2nd battalion Royal Canadian Horse Artillery and Royal Canadian Dragoons)
1st battalion Princess Patricia's Light Infantry (part of AMF)
Belgium:
Para-Commando Regiment (the entire regiment deploys)
Luxembourg:
1st Light Infantry Battalion (part of AMF)
I left out the Italians, per canon. But I do like Chico's idea regarding the 'renegade' Italian commander. The Germans were supposed to send a Fallschirmjager battalion and attached artillery battery as their contribution to AMF, but these are all currently in combat vs the Soviets in Eastern Germany when AMP deploys to Norway.
oh and one thing you might also want to check out is the 1989 NATO Order of Battle, now up to version 8.2 over at Tanknet.
http://63.99.108.76/forums/index.php?showtopic=2041
-bdd
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thefusilier 08-20-2008, 02:17 AM For the Canadians it can be quite varied. As said this was during a time when the mission there was being reevaluated and changes made.
I would expect for the game to have the 5th Bde to deploy to Germany to work with the 4th.
Anyone going to Norway would be the AB Regiment, and maybe the SSF (but that was being done away with too). If so perhaps just an infantry battalion and arty unit (along with the AB Regt).
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thefusilier 08-20-2008, 02:20 AM For the Canadians it can be quite varied. As said this was during a time when the mission there was being reevaluated and changes made.
I would expect for the game to have the 5th Bde to deploy to Germany to work with the 4th.
Anyone going to Norway would be the AB Regiment, and maybe the SSF (but that was being done away with too). If so perhaps just an infantry battalion and arty unit (along with the AB Regt).
4th Marine Amphibeous Brigade (6th Marine Regiment & 2nd Marine Regiment [reinforced])
6th went to the Med.
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Gen.Lee 08-20-2008, 01:03 PM I'll mention the now-old GDW boardgame "Arctic Front." It was part of their Third World War series, and I considered it a great resource for T2k. Of course, since it came from the same company at the same time, the research is rather similar.
Mine is boxed away with all my other WW3 wargames, but from what I recall, its OB looks like what I've seen of yours.
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FightingFlamingo 08-20-2008, 01:29 PM The DC group has actively been modifying GDW's TWW system for the Twilight war... and something we have completed is the Royal Norwegian Army's OOB as of Nov 1996. So here it is in TWW terms...
Norwegian Army
Nord oAB 2-3-7/NO G: 1102
Sør-Norge oAB 2-3-7/1 NO F: 0912
Vestlandet MtnB 1-1-7/NO F: 0305
1 IB 1-1-6/1 NO F: 0612
3 IB 1-1-6/1 NO G: 2423
5 IB 1-1-6/1 NO G: 0502
6 oMtnB 1-3-7/1 NO F: 0711
7 IB 1-1-6/1 NO F: 0211
8 IB 1-1-6/1 NO B: 2316
12 oAB 2-3-6/1 NO F: 0712
13 IB 1-2-6/1 NO F: 1805
14 oIB 1-2-6/NO F: 2403
15 oIB 1-2-6/1 NO F1902
HMKG IR 1-1-7/NO F: 0712
Möre IR 0-1-6/1 NO F: 1003
Finnmark MtnR 1-1-7/NO G: 2106
Oslofjord IR 1-1-7/NO F:0611
Porsanger oMtnR 1-2-7/NO G: 2107
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Law0369 08-20-2008, 01:36 PM Cannon is off on how certian units would be deployed from certian countrys due to the game designers lack of resources when it came to unit missions and size. Things we can get easy off the net now they could only dream about. that is what set us as a group( D.C.) to go around and tweak cannon to fix how certian things went. case in point is the 6th Marine regiment they were trained as jungle fighters for the Panama reinforce mission that they did do in operation Just cause (BLT 2/6). For them to be the first unit to Norway is kind of crazy. Most of us here are pretty smart and if givin the choice who would you send? So we have sat down and gone over every unit and tried to make a history and make it beleaveable to you here. The last time I posted; Frank Frey came on here and said "shit you guys have great stuff here keep it going better then we did". So that is a testament to us all here to keep thinking and putting out good info. So all here keep it up and keep the debate going.
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Raellus 08-20-2008, 08:49 PM Thanks for the info BDD. I hadn't thought to look at Boomer.
In late 1996, Soviets move into Northern Norway. Soviet Spetznaz and Naval Infantry make some raids, a battalion of Naval Infantry occupy Narvik for 3 weeks before being wiped out.
-bdd
Once again, this occupation of Narvik strongly implies an amphib operation. That would require at least temporary local air superiority and control of the sea spaces leading to and around Narvik. They simply couldn't accomplish this under the noses of a NATO carrier battlegroup/task force. This suggests some initial Soviet naval success in the region.
Like, for example, "ambushing" a U.S. carrier patrolling the area...
Quickly seizing a northern Norwegian airfield at the outset would allow the Soviets a little more room to manouver as far as providing land-based air cover for ground and sea ops as well as slipping Backfire anti-carrier/anti-shipping raids into the North Atlantic.
No one's commented on my nerve gas idea. It's the only way I can think of for the Soviets to seize said airfield quickly and intact. No one's ever even attempted a para-drop in the face of a modern air defense system (AWACS, fighters, modern SAMS, etc.).
Go ahead, I can take it! ; )
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Mohoender 08-20-2008, 11:30 PM Thanks for the info BDD. I hadn't thought to look at Boomer.
Once again, this occupation of Narvik strongly implies an amphib operation. That would require at least temporary local air superiority and control of the sea spaces leading to and around Narvik. They simply couldn't accomplish this under the noses of a NATO carrier battlegroup/task force. This suggests some initial Soviet naval success in the region.
Like, for example, "ambushing" a U.S. carrier patrolling the area...
Quickly seizing a northern Norwegian airfield at the outset would allow the Soviets a little more room to manouver as far as providing land-based air cover for ground and sea ops as well as slipping Backfire anti-carrier/anti-shipping raids into the North Atlantic.
No one's commented on my nerve gas idea. It's the only way I can think of for the Soviets to seize said airfield quickly and intact. No one's ever even attempted a para-drop in the face of a modern air defense system (AWACS, fighters, modern SAMS, etc.).
Go ahead, I can take it! ; )
Why not for the nerve gas, Russians have always been good at that. Concerning airfield, Banak would have been seized anyway through land operation. The only airfield that can be concerned are Andoya and Bardufoss. I would pick up Bardufoss as it is the opening gate to Narvik but Andoya is on an island and might represent some advantages for that reason (and as many drawbacks). Check the scramble website.
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General Pain 08-21-2008, 03:51 AM I have been thinking of making a norway t2k oob/sourcebook....but time hasn't allowed it for the moment...
I was wondering if my fellow t2k'rs in this forum had an opinion on sweden in t2k....will they try to be neutral/cowards (no offense) as they were in ww2?
I guess they wouldn't since they actually have a pretty decent arms-industry...
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Mohoender 08-21-2008, 04:15 AM I have been thinking of making a norway t2k oob/sourcebook....but time hasn't allowed it for the moment...
I was wondering if my fellow t2k'rs in this forum had an opinion on sweden in t2k....will they try to be neutral/cowards (no offense) as they were in ww2?
I guess they wouldn't since they actually have a pretty decent arms-industry...
You can check Antenna's website, he has a lot of material on scandinavia
http://www.ludd.ltu.se/~antenna/m2k/index.htm
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thefusilier 08-21-2008, 04:42 AM I would pick up Bardufoss as it is the opening gate to Narvik but Andoya is on an island and might represent some advantages for that reason (and as many drawbacks). Check the scramble website.
Bardufoss is held by NATO.
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Targan 08-21-2008, 04:51 AM You can check Antenna's website, he has a lot of material on scandinaviaAntenna, like Paul, is a T2K legend IMO. Both their sites have proved very useful to me.
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Mohoender 08-21-2008, 05:44 AM Bardufoss is held by NATO.
True but if Bardufoss is still held by NATO, he is right how can the Russians have taken Narvik? Moreover, Bardufoss would be a serious thorn for them, I don't even see how they could have maintained any troop in Norway.
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thefusilier 08-21-2008, 05:48 AM True but if Bardufoss is still held by NATO, he is right how can the Russians have taken Narvik?
Marines and paratroops... then he lost it quickly.
I don't even see how they could have maintained any troop in Norway.
Thats why they lost it and NATO infantry and marines went on into Finland and got trashed there instead.
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Mohoender 08-21-2008, 05:48 AM Antenna, like Paul, is a T2K legend IMO. Both their sites have proved very useful to me.
I know and sorry my fault I haven't made myself clear. However I don't know who is who yet and the only think I wanted to say is that he has done the best job about that subject in my opinion. I entirely bought what he said (at least most of it) and really I made his idea mine. Then giving a personnal idea on Norway would be cheating somehow :cells:
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Jason Weiser 08-23-2008, 09:32 AM Well,
Sorry I am late with my three cents but I figure since I am handling the Soviet political and some of the military end (now this is also dependent on the details for the Norwegian Sea battle that Chico, FF, Law and I work out, so it is a work in progress.)
My take is that the Soviets by 1996 are in a big bind mostly of their own making. The spring offensive in China has ended in a blood-soaked debacle, the Germans have tied down even more troops in Germany that are needed in China simply to maintain the current situation, let alone consider another offensive, and now, NATO has activated REFORGER and American troops and equipment are moving fairly unmolested across the Atlantic, not at all what the Soviets would have hoped for and certainly not something that bodes well for the Soviets. In the Politburo, those loyal to Sauronski are arguing that Danilov has completely screwed up, and now, the West is preparing to administer the killing blow to Soviet socialism. Danilov himself is grasping at straws, attempting to both forestall the coming coup as well as turn the wars in China and Germany off. The Chinese and Germans, smelling a measure of blood, are in no mood to talk things over in Geneva, and the West, in the wake of the Leipzig Massacre, aren't in the mood to pressure either the Germans or the Chinese to the table.
Thus, STAVKA is looking at the unmolested reinforcement of Europe with alarm, and has been pressing the Politburo for action for some time, but with the paralysis at the top in the wake of the Spring Offensive in China and the Germans crossing the IGB, decisions aren't forthcoming. When the decision does come in November, it is made by Danilov, who decides that a swift, decisive action in Norway would allow the Soviets to sortie the Red Banner Northern Fleet relatively unmolested, and would allow them to interdict the heretofore unmolested US supply chain to Germany. Such a threat might then force the US and NATO to pressure Germany and China to the table. Such an action might have met with success in the late summer and early fall of 1996, but by November, it was obvious that NATO had heavily reinforced Norway, but the Soviets felt that the attempt had to be made, STAVKA gave the plan a less than thirty percent chance of success. But, even STAVKA had no idea how much of a fiasco Norway was to turn into.
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Raellus 08-23-2008, 01:50 PM Well,
... a swift, decisive action in Norway would allow the Soviets to sortie the Red Banner Northern Fleet relatively unmolested, and would allow them to interdict the heretofore unmolested US supply chain to Germany. Such a threat might then force the US and NATO to pressure Germany and China to the table. Such an action might have met with success in the late summer and early fall of 1996, but by November, it was obvious that NATO had heavily reinforced Norway, but the Soviets felt that the attempt had to be made, STAVKA gave the plan a less than thirty percent chance of success. But, even STAVKA had no idea how much of a fiasco Norway was to turn into.
This is exactly the way I see the Norway campaign starting out as well.
Also on the political tip, I know that Denmark is innitially reluctant to actively support the NATO war effort in central Europe. Perhaps the Soviet invasion of Norway coupled with Soviet raids on U.S. leased airbases in Greenland push Denmark into a more active role.
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