8th US Mechanized Division?

[Abbott Shaull]

What would happen to the 8th Mechanized Division after they reached the Baltic States. Were they means to delivered Special Operational units and Intel operatives into the region? Did they stay in place and merge with local militias or maybe joined force with the Soviet Division that had rebelled during the summer near Latvia?

Did they return to rejoin the XI Corps in 2001? Did the Soviet use one of the Guard Tanks Army in Belorus to wipe out the 8th Division. Or did the unit go the way of the 10th Mountain Division in which there were several band operating in the region. None really able to cooperate with the other, but trying each other. Would they enlarge by accepting large number of Soviet troops into their ranks?

I don't remember there was a Soviet Division in the Baltic and I want to say in Riga area or the capital of Latvia where had grown tired of the endless killing of good young comrades and turned against the Stavka. I am not sure if they declared for a free local Baltic State or had declared for NATO or both.

As I remember many of the Soviet Division in the region were like many who had been unwilling to move out due to lack of fuel and spare parts.

[Legbreaker]

The 8th really shouldn't be where they are. In my opinion they should have stopped a few hundred kilometres earlier and avoided entanglement in the Baltic states.

As it stands, they are very unlikely to make it back to friendly lines any time soon. There's a hell of a lot of enemy held ground behind them and a lot of highly mobile (for 2000-01) cavalry in the way. There's also a general migration of Soviet deserters, etc moving back through the area in an attempt to reach home - these may not be a direct threat to the 8th as long as it maintains it's integrity, but the odd raid by marauders will happen which will slowly bleed the 8th of fuel, ammo and other supplies.

Even though the 8th are in a bad position, they do have a relatively friendly Pact unit nearby. The locals are also generally friendly but that's probably more because the Americans are seen as a lesser evil than the Soviets.

The best approach for the 8ths commander is to make friends with as many people as he can, allying if possible with one of the rebelling Pact units and riding out winter in better terrain than it is at the end of Summer 2000.

Moving back across country is as mentioned previously, near impossible so the only real hope is for a significant amount of shipping to be found and fuelled to enable them to be sealifted out. This is not going to be very easy to accomplish and may not be possible for a year or three.

[Olefin]

From the Soviet forces around Riga you would think that the only way the 8th would be surviving would be if they had joined common cause with the rebelious Soviet division. There are three divisions in the area and one is pretty strong.

Course we dont know the size of one of them because while its mentioned in the beginning of the Soviet Vehicle Guide its not detailed later on.


Also it says they are in cantonments in and around Riga. However Riga was nuked pretty heavily (at least one Russian division was destroyed by the nuke attack). The ruins of that city might still be pretty hot to be around for any length of time.

[Legbreaker]

The situation is well documented in GDW's Eastern European Sourcebook. Besides a small typo regarding the number of M2 Bradley's with the 8th ID, the situation as presented is quite plausible and provides a large number of RP opportunities as has been discussed in numerous previous threads here.

[kato13]

The situation is well documented in GDW's Eastern European Sourcebook. Besides a small typo regarding the number of M2 Bradley's with the 8th ID, the situation as presented is quite plausible and provides a large number of RP opportunities as has been discussed in numerous previous threads here.

The issue of it being a typo was not settled.

https://forum.juhlin.com/showpost.php?p=11178&postcount=20

my post
http://forum.juhlin.com/showpost.php?p=11236&postcount=33

[Legbreaker]

The issue of it being a typo was not settled.

https://forum.juhlin.com/showpost.php?p=11178&postcount=20

my post
http://forum.juhlin.com/showpost.php?p=11236&postcount=33

Huh, I thought we'd pretty much agreed that 42 should have been 22 or even 12. :confused:
Something with a 2 anyway.

[kato13]

Huh, I thought we'd pretty much agreed that 42 should have been 22 or even 12. :confused:
Something with a 2 anyway.

Look I hate the numbers from EES (I spent months trying to reconcile them). But i see the logic of how the Writer got there. It really looks like he took the number of pre war vehicles and divided by 6 for rear area (less attrition) and 13 for front line, and 33 for helicopters (the most attrition). Ironically it is stronger than a pre war division man per man as a division had between 18 and 22k.

My solution was to have a virulent flu kill 2/3s of the division immediately after they get lost, leaving them trapped with too much equipment.

[Legbreaker]

I agree, they didn't spend a lot of time on the numbers, but the overall situation stacks up well enough.
As proposed previously, the additional vehicles could have been assigned to the 8th ID to enable them to more effectively act as the deep penetration spearhead of the offensive. It's plausible anyway.
Any GM who disagrees with the numbers should probably reduce them - I know I do.