kato13
03-14-2010, 10:24 PM
shrike6
Us Acr Oob
Here's part 3, my take on the order of battle of US Army Armored Cavalry Regiments of the Twilight War.
**********************
shrike6
Appendix C: Pre-War Combat Arms Regiments
a. 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment - Nurnburg, FRG
1) 1- 2nd Cavalry Squadron (Armored)
2) 2- 2nd Cavalry Squadron (Armored)
3) 3 -2nd Cavalry Squadron (Armored)
4) 4 -2nd Cavalry Squadron (Air)
5) 84th Engineer Company
6) 2nd ACR ADA Battery
7) 2nd Support Squadron
8) 502nd Military Intelligence Company
9) 87th Chemical Company
b. 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment - Ft Bliss, TX
1) 1- 3rd Cavalry Squadron (Armored)
2) 2- 3rd Cavalry Squadron (Armored)
3) 3 - 3rd Cavalry Squadron (Armored)
4) 4 - 3rd Cavalry Squadron (Air)
5) 43rd Engineer Company
6) 3rd ACR ADA Battery
7) 3rd ACR Support Squadron
8) 66th Military Intelligence Company
9) 89th Chemical Company
c. 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment - Fulda, FRG
1) 1- 11th Cavalry Squadron (Armored)
2) 2- 11th Cavalry Squadron (Armored)
3) 3- 11th Cavalry Squadron (Armored)
4) 4 -11th Cavalry Squadron (Air)
5) 58th Engineer Company
6) 11th ACR ADA Battery
7) 11th ACR Support Squadron
8) 511th Military Intelligence Company
9) 33rd Chemical Company
d. 14th Armored Cavalry Regiment (Motorized) – Camp Laguna, AZ
1) 1- 14th Cavalry Squadron (Motorized)
2) 2- 14th Cavalry Squadron (Motorized)
3) 3- 14th Cavalry Squadron (Motorized)
4) 4- 14th Cavalry Squadron (Air)
5) 919th Engineer Company
6) 14th ACR ADA Battery
7) 14th ACR Support Squadron
8) 514th Military Intelligence Company
9) 88th Chemical Company
e. 107th Armored Cavalry Regiment – OH NG - Cleveland, OH
1) 1- 107th Cavalry Squadron (Armored)
2) 2- 107th Cavalry Squadron (Armored)
3) 3- 107th Cavalry Squadron (Armored)
4) 4- 107th Cavalry Squadron (Air)
5) 191st Engineer Company
6) 107th ACR ADA Battery
7) 107th ACR Support Squadron
8) 137th Military Intelligence Company
9) 107th Chemical Company
f. 116th Armored Cavalry Regiment – ID NG - Boise, ID
1) 1- 116th Cavalry Regiment (Armored)
2) 2- 116th Cavalry Regiment (Armored)
3) 3- 116th Cavalry Regiment (Armored) – OR NG
4) 4- 116th Cavalry Regiment (Air)
5) 116th Engineer Company
6) 116th ACR ADA Battery
7) 116th Support Squadron
8) 216th Military Intelligence Company
9) 116th Chemical Company
g. 278th Armored Cavalry Regiment – TN NG - Knoxville, TN
1) 1- 278th Cavalry Squadron (Armored)
2) 2- 278th Cavalry Squadron (Armored)
3) 3- 278th Cavalry Squadron (Armored)
4) 4- 278th Cavalry Squadron (Air)
5) 190th Engineer Company
6) 278th ADA Battery
7) 278th Support Squadron
8) 278th Military Intelligence Company
9) 278th Chemical Company
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Antenna
Where would you gents put the 14th ACR ?
Couse the unit aint mentioned in the T2k books.
Myself would put them in Iran, but what about you ?
Antenna
**********************
Matt Wiser
I'd put them in Iran with XVIII Airborne Corps. They may have been stood up in early '96 as things were getting warm, and deploy in '97 with everything hot. Or they may have stayed in CONUS and fought the Mexicans in Arizona/SoCal later on.
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shrike6
My thinking on the 14th ACR was deployment to the Persian Gulf as well but you can do what you want with it.
**********************
Matt Wiser
Two questions on the 14th ACR: where is Camp Laguna in AZ-is it part of the Yuma Proving Ground? And since they're a motorized Cav Regiment, I presume they were equipped with the LAV-25 family and the M-8 AGS?
**********************
shrike6
Right on both accounts, Matt. The "Suivez Moi" Regiment would indeed use LAV-25 and M8 AGS/LAV-75 (v2.x/ v1) instead of M3s and M1s. Camp Laguna is indeed the Yuma Proving Grounds. http://www.azohwy.com/y/ymaprvgr.htm
http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:sGhC5Au4dfMJ:www.yuma.army.mil/heritage_center.htm+%22camp+laguna%22+%22yuma+prov ing+%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
I considered other locations but felt that Yuma provided the right enviroment (large maneuver grounds and a nice sized airfield nearby (MCAS Yuma) ) for an additional brigade sized unit in the force structure. I've also read where Yuma could be a site to place an armored brigade if US forces in Europe are drawndown.
**********************
Matt Wiser
4th Squadron's Attack Helos I presume are AH-64s? I never did like the LAV-75, so has anyone done V.1 stats for the M-8?
**********************
Webstral
What's the 14th ACR?
Webstral
**********************
shrike6
Its a fictional unit I made up to give XVIII Airborne Corps a light air deployable cavalry regiment akin to what the 2nd ACR (L) role is today. Although instead of being Hum-vee equipt like the 2nd ACR (L) is IRL, Th 14th ACR (M) is equpt with M8s and LAVs like the 2nd ACR (L) was originally intended to be.
Why call the unit the 14th? The 14th ACR was the original unit to patrol the Fulda Gap. It did so from 1948 till its inactivation in 1972 at which time it was replaced by the 11th ACR. The 11th ACR was returning from Vietnam at the time.
http://www.14cav.org/a60a-history.html
http://www.14cav.org/
**********************
shrike6
My feeling is that the 4/14th Cav would be equipt similar to the IRL 4/2nd Cav which means Kiowa Warriors and not Apaches since the unit is supposed to be light and rapidly deployable.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/4-2acr.htm
**********************
Matt Wiser
Given that XVIII Airborne Corps would be heading to Iran and the Gulf in the war, maybe a Guard or Reserve AH-64 battalion was found to attach to the 14th; If I was a OH-58D driver being faced with Hinds and Havocs, I'd want some Apache backup real fast.
**********************
shrike6
That's one possibility although keep mind 4/14th Cav is not the only Army Aviation unit deploying to the Gulf. You have the Aviation assets of the 9th, 24th, 82nd, 101st Divisions along with the 6th Cav Bde and possibly 18th Av Bde ( Although 18th might have deployed with III Corps to replace 6th Cav Bde).
**********************
graebarde
re: YPG
having patrolled YPG for several months in the late 70's, it would make a decent post for a ACR(L). The terrain there is also very similar to Iran, and it has it's own airfield as well. The only problem with making it a troop site is the testing that goes on there which maneuvers might interfere with, but Im sure that would NOT be an insurmountable problem, giving the cav all the area west of the highway still gives them a hell of alot of maneuver area (more than Carson IIRC).
**********************
Matt Wiser
Isn't there either a USAR Apache battalion or AZNG Apache Battalion that could go to the 14th if need be? Or is the AZ Guard part of 40th ID(M) (CANG)?
**********************
shrike6
There probably is but I have not finished the Aviation Brigades at this time and probably won't get a chance to do any work on them for another week. I am currently in Ohio, and all my stuff is back home in South Dakota.
**********************
shrike6
Grae,
Glad to hear from somebody who has been to YPG. My thoughts were that some of the testing at Yuma could be moved to either Dugway and/or Aberdeen to provide the maneuver grounds.
**********************
graebarde
Glad to hear from somebody who has been to YPG. My thoughts were that some of the testing at Yuma could be moved to either Dugway and/or Aberdeen to provide the maneuver grounds.
It was 24 years ago April 19th when I was last there so I imagine alot has changed. Infact I'm SURE they have. As for Dugway getting the mission, they are BioChem, so not sure they would, but may. Almost all the stuff they were testing at YPG when I was there had already been at APG. As I said, if they just gave the regiment the area west of the highway they would have an area about 15 miles by 60 miles with impact areas included. Also there is/was an area west of the river in CA they could supplement the area with.. then of course why not just use all the firging desert around there.. it was empty anyways except for wild horses, burros, desert big horn sheep, coyotes, scorpions, tarantulas, and the ever present sidewinders... Im pretty sure they could manage.
**********************
Matt Wiser
Problem with expanding the YPG: all the tree (or in this case, cactus) huggers who would scream bloody murder at any thought of more desert land getting churned up by tank treads or used as a firing range. Fort Irwin is having such problems-the Army wants Irwin to be able to handle division-sized NTC training and the Sierra Club, et al are trying to block it.
**********************
shrike6
-I wasn't really thinking of expanding YPG more of repurposing the area that already makes up YPG.
- On second thought the 14th ACR should be equipt with AH-1s instead of Kiowa Warriors.
Us Acr Oob
Here's part 3, my take on the order of battle of US Army Armored Cavalry Regiments of the Twilight War.
**********************
shrike6
Appendix C: Pre-War Combat Arms Regiments
a. 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment - Nurnburg, FRG
1) 1- 2nd Cavalry Squadron (Armored)
2) 2- 2nd Cavalry Squadron (Armored)
3) 3 -2nd Cavalry Squadron (Armored)
4) 4 -2nd Cavalry Squadron (Air)
5) 84th Engineer Company
6) 2nd ACR ADA Battery
7) 2nd Support Squadron
8) 502nd Military Intelligence Company
9) 87th Chemical Company
b. 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment - Ft Bliss, TX
1) 1- 3rd Cavalry Squadron (Armored)
2) 2- 3rd Cavalry Squadron (Armored)
3) 3 - 3rd Cavalry Squadron (Armored)
4) 4 - 3rd Cavalry Squadron (Air)
5) 43rd Engineer Company
6) 3rd ACR ADA Battery
7) 3rd ACR Support Squadron
8) 66th Military Intelligence Company
9) 89th Chemical Company
c. 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment - Fulda, FRG
1) 1- 11th Cavalry Squadron (Armored)
2) 2- 11th Cavalry Squadron (Armored)
3) 3- 11th Cavalry Squadron (Armored)
4) 4 -11th Cavalry Squadron (Air)
5) 58th Engineer Company
6) 11th ACR ADA Battery
7) 11th ACR Support Squadron
8) 511th Military Intelligence Company
9) 33rd Chemical Company
d. 14th Armored Cavalry Regiment (Motorized) – Camp Laguna, AZ
1) 1- 14th Cavalry Squadron (Motorized)
2) 2- 14th Cavalry Squadron (Motorized)
3) 3- 14th Cavalry Squadron (Motorized)
4) 4- 14th Cavalry Squadron (Air)
5) 919th Engineer Company
6) 14th ACR ADA Battery
7) 14th ACR Support Squadron
8) 514th Military Intelligence Company
9) 88th Chemical Company
e. 107th Armored Cavalry Regiment – OH NG - Cleveland, OH
1) 1- 107th Cavalry Squadron (Armored)
2) 2- 107th Cavalry Squadron (Armored)
3) 3- 107th Cavalry Squadron (Armored)
4) 4- 107th Cavalry Squadron (Air)
5) 191st Engineer Company
6) 107th ACR ADA Battery
7) 107th ACR Support Squadron
8) 137th Military Intelligence Company
9) 107th Chemical Company
f. 116th Armored Cavalry Regiment – ID NG - Boise, ID
1) 1- 116th Cavalry Regiment (Armored)
2) 2- 116th Cavalry Regiment (Armored)
3) 3- 116th Cavalry Regiment (Armored) – OR NG
4) 4- 116th Cavalry Regiment (Air)
5) 116th Engineer Company
6) 116th ACR ADA Battery
7) 116th Support Squadron
8) 216th Military Intelligence Company
9) 116th Chemical Company
g. 278th Armored Cavalry Regiment – TN NG - Knoxville, TN
1) 1- 278th Cavalry Squadron (Armored)
2) 2- 278th Cavalry Squadron (Armored)
3) 3- 278th Cavalry Squadron (Armored)
4) 4- 278th Cavalry Squadron (Air)
5) 190th Engineer Company
6) 278th ADA Battery
7) 278th Support Squadron
8) 278th Military Intelligence Company
9) 278th Chemical Company
**********************
Antenna
Where would you gents put the 14th ACR ?
Couse the unit aint mentioned in the T2k books.
Myself would put them in Iran, but what about you ?
Antenna
**********************
Matt Wiser
I'd put them in Iran with XVIII Airborne Corps. They may have been stood up in early '96 as things were getting warm, and deploy in '97 with everything hot. Or they may have stayed in CONUS and fought the Mexicans in Arizona/SoCal later on.
**********************
shrike6
My thinking on the 14th ACR was deployment to the Persian Gulf as well but you can do what you want with it.
**********************
Matt Wiser
Two questions on the 14th ACR: where is Camp Laguna in AZ-is it part of the Yuma Proving Ground? And since they're a motorized Cav Regiment, I presume they were equipped with the LAV-25 family and the M-8 AGS?
**********************
shrike6
Right on both accounts, Matt. The "Suivez Moi" Regiment would indeed use LAV-25 and M8 AGS/LAV-75 (v2.x/ v1) instead of M3s and M1s. Camp Laguna is indeed the Yuma Proving Grounds. http://www.azohwy.com/y/ymaprvgr.htm
http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:sGhC5Au4dfMJ:www.yuma.army.mil/heritage_center.htm+%22camp+laguna%22+%22yuma+prov ing+%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
I considered other locations but felt that Yuma provided the right enviroment (large maneuver grounds and a nice sized airfield nearby (MCAS Yuma) ) for an additional brigade sized unit in the force structure. I've also read where Yuma could be a site to place an armored brigade if US forces in Europe are drawndown.
**********************
Matt Wiser
4th Squadron's Attack Helos I presume are AH-64s? I never did like the LAV-75, so has anyone done V.1 stats for the M-8?
**********************
Webstral
What's the 14th ACR?
Webstral
**********************
shrike6
Its a fictional unit I made up to give XVIII Airborne Corps a light air deployable cavalry regiment akin to what the 2nd ACR (L) role is today. Although instead of being Hum-vee equipt like the 2nd ACR (L) is IRL, Th 14th ACR (M) is equpt with M8s and LAVs like the 2nd ACR (L) was originally intended to be.
Why call the unit the 14th? The 14th ACR was the original unit to patrol the Fulda Gap. It did so from 1948 till its inactivation in 1972 at which time it was replaced by the 11th ACR. The 11th ACR was returning from Vietnam at the time.
http://www.14cav.org/a60a-history.html
http://www.14cav.org/
**********************
shrike6
My feeling is that the 4/14th Cav would be equipt similar to the IRL 4/2nd Cav which means Kiowa Warriors and not Apaches since the unit is supposed to be light and rapidly deployable.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/4-2acr.htm
**********************
Matt Wiser
Given that XVIII Airborne Corps would be heading to Iran and the Gulf in the war, maybe a Guard or Reserve AH-64 battalion was found to attach to the 14th; If I was a OH-58D driver being faced with Hinds and Havocs, I'd want some Apache backup real fast.
**********************
shrike6
That's one possibility although keep mind 4/14th Cav is not the only Army Aviation unit deploying to the Gulf. You have the Aviation assets of the 9th, 24th, 82nd, 101st Divisions along with the 6th Cav Bde and possibly 18th Av Bde ( Although 18th might have deployed with III Corps to replace 6th Cav Bde).
**********************
graebarde
re: YPG
having patrolled YPG for several months in the late 70's, it would make a decent post for a ACR(L). The terrain there is also very similar to Iran, and it has it's own airfield as well. The only problem with making it a troop site is the testing that goes on there which maneuvers might interfere with, but Im sure that would NOT be an insurmountable problem, giving the cav all the area west of the highway still gives them a hell of alot of maneuver area (more than Carson IIRC).
**********************
Matt Wiser
Isn't there either a USAR Apache battalion or AZNG Apache Battalion that could go to the 14th if need be? Or is the AZ Guard part of 40th ID(M) (CANG)?
**********************
shrike6
There probably is but I have not finished the Aviation Brigades at this time and probably won't get a chance to do any work on them for another week. I am currently in Ohio, and all my stuff is back home in South Dakota.
**********************
shrike6
Grae,
Glad to hear from somebody who has been to YPG. My thoughts were that some of the testing at Yuma could be moved to either Dugway and/or Aberdeen to provide the maneuver grounds.
**********************
graebarde
Glad to hear from somebody who has been to YPG. My thoughts were that some of the testing at Yuma could be moved to either Dugway and/or Aberdeen to provide the maneuver grounds.
It was 24 years ago April 19th when I was last there so I imagine alot has changed. Infact I'm SURE they have. As for Dugway getting the mission, they are BioChem, so not sure they would, but may. Almost all the stuff they were testing at YPG when I was there had already been at APG. As I said, if they just gave the regiment the area west of the highway they would have an area about 15 miles by 60 miles with impact areas included. Also there is/was an area west of the river in CA they could supplement the area with.. then of course why not just use all the firging desert around there.. it was empty anyways except for wild horses, burros, desert big horn sheep, coyotes, scorpions, tarantulas, and the ever present sidewinders... Im pretty sure they could manage.
**********************
Matt Wiser
Problem with expanding the YPG: all the tree (or in this case, cactus) huggers who would scream bloody murder at any thought of more desert land getting churned up by tank treads or used as a firing range. Fort Irwin is having such problems-the Army wants Irwin to be able to handle division-sized NTC training and the Sierra Club, et al are trying to block it.
**********************
shrike6
-I wasn't really thinking of expanding YPG more of repurposing the area that already makes up YPG.
- On second thought the 14th ACR should be equipt with AH-1s instead of Kiowa Warriors.