My ethnic group

[Gabe The Gun]

So I was filling out some paperwork last week and I came across the question " Ethnic Group". So as we all know it says things like caucasion, hispanic, alaskan native, native american, etc. So I started thinking about the question in relation to myself, well my dad is 100% Italian, and my mother is 100% Native American(half Osage indian and half Cherokee indian). So I checked the box that says "other please specify" and wrote in Whopaho.
This is not a joke, I am dead serious! Although it is pretty darn funny.

[pmulcahy11b]

I don't think there's a single human being on the planet who isn't a mutt.

[Webstral]

Too true. What would "purebred" even mean?

When my son was born, we started in checking boxes for the birth certificate and had to break for coffee. His Red Egg & Ginger party could have been a UN photoshoot.

Webstral

[pmulcahy11b]

So I was filling out some paperwork last week and I came across the question " Ethnic Group". So as we all know it says things like caucasion, hispanic, alaskan native, native american, etc. So I started thinking about the question in relation to myself, well my dad is 100% Italian, and my mother is 100% Native American(half Osage indian and half Cherokee indian). So I checked the box that says "other please specify" and wrote in Whopaho.
This is not a joke, I am dead serious! Although it is pretty darn funny.

I have a friend who refers to herself as a "Navarican" -- part Navajo Indian, part Puerto Rican.

[jester]

I love checking "other" when I was looking for a job. Because I know the HR bubbas were dying to ask but dare not :p

I figure if they want to put it, they can try and figure it out.

[Cdnwolf]

Its more fun up here in Canada - your either caucasian or your not... period.. lol.

But since both sides of my grandparents family come from the Ukraine I am almost pure...

But then when the census comes along... I just put myself down as Canadian - its where I was born and thats ALL that should matter!

[jester]

Just like the whole "African American" questions.

After all aren't the early Dutch who settled in S. Africa of an African desent, since that is where they came from. So, they move to the US hehehe, do they get to claim they are "African American?" After all, Africa is a place it is not a racial type.

[Webstral]

I like that. Afrikaaners who move to the US must be African-American.

Webstrals

[kato13]

I like that. Afrikaaners who move to the US must be African-American.

This suggestion was mentioned frequently when Charlize Theron became a US citizen a few years back.

[pmulcahy11b]

This suggestion was mentioned frequently when Charlize Theron became a US citizen a few years back.

She's got to be the best thing the South Africans ever gave the US -- or at least the hottest.

EDIT: Well, maybe not the best (but definitely the hottest). If I'm not mistaken, MRAP technology basically started in South Africa.

[Webstral]

This suggestion was mentioned frequently when Charlize Theron became a US citizen a few years back.

Dang. Apparently, I don't have any original ideas.

Webstral

[Legbreaker]

Here in Australia the only question is if you're "Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander". Everyone else is Australian and we're apparently one of the most multicultural countries on the face of the planet.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Over here its all the usual racial types, plus the addition of travelling people (Romany or Irish), plus religious background as well. And some of jobs are a advertised in English, Gaelic and Ulster Scots!

[RN7]

I'm Irish with a drop of English on my mothers side, and my wife is half Navaho and half German. My son who has freckles is as Irish looking as you can get, yet because he is one-quarter Navaho he can claim membership of the Navaho nation and can claim to be native American in any census. Go figure!

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

Heck some times I am so tempted just to put down native American. I was born here that makes me a native of the country does it not? just saying. Actually I do have some native blood but its somewhere in the 1/12th ish range dont think it qualifies though. Im mostly German Czech Irish.

[mikeo80]

Yep, that's me. An all American Mutt.

Biological parents: Irish & Pensylvania Dutch

Adoptive (Real) Parents: Irish & French

[Marc]

Well, I’m not very sure amount the meaning of “ethnical group”. Anyway, my father’s family is all of Catalan origin and my mother’s family are from a Aragon, but with roots in the Basque country. So, my first surname is Catalan and my second surname Basque (this generated some suspicious looks while in the Spanish Army).

[WallShadow]

I'm amused by the "Celtic" culture that is promoted by some Irish folk as exclusively Irish (a minority but prominent). I'd hate to point out to them that over the centuries the Celts got shoved progressively westward across Europe into Brittany and thence northward across the channel. Their origin? Where half of my bloodlines come from--Central Europe! :D

A large chunk of the other half of me derived from Scandinavian traders, the Rus, whose markets extended downriver from the Baltic, again, into the Caucasus.

If my research on my family genealogy is correct, I have a little Teutonic Knight in me.

And to top it all off, as I look at my high cheekbones in the mirror, I am left with a suspicion there had been a Mongol in the woodpile several generations back. (They, uh, toured the area several times, ya see.):cool:

Mutts? Yeah, the most adaptable hodgepodge of genes that ever beat the natural selection dice roll!

[pmulcahy11b]

Humans have to be mutts. Homo sapiens is one of the most generalized animals nature has ever produced -- our species basically has no specializations adapting it for any specific climate or environment, except that it in general not be too hot or too cold. Our chief survival adaptation is our brains, and to a lesser extent, our hands. Our survival depends on the exchange of ideas. There is a debate among scientists as whether Homo sapiens is still physically evolving, or whether we've short-circuited that with science. Bad genes don't get culled from our species like they used to.

[Raellus]

Humans have to be mutts. Homo sapiens is one of the most generalized animals nature has ever produced -- our species basically has no specializations adapting it for any specific climate or environment, except that it in general not be too hot or too cold. Our chief survival adaptation is our brains, and to a lesser extent, our hands. Our survival depends on the exchange of ideas. There is a debate among scientists as whether Homo sapiens is still physically evolving, or whether we've short-circuited that with science. Bad genes don't get culled from our species like they used to.

In general, I agree with your first point but it's worth noting that there are a couple of notable exceptions. Skin and hair color are types of genetic specialization adapting humans to specific environments. Also, some tribal groups in the Andes have noses/sinuses and lungs adapted to cold, low-oxygen environments. Overall, though, your assessment is correct.

And, as others have stated, if one goes far enough back in time, all humans are essentially mutts. People that talk about "racial purity" flat out don't know their history, or are willing to ignore certain bits. I'm currently reading a book about the last days of the Roman Empire and I'm flabergasted by all of the migrations and ethnic minglings that took place throughout the empire.

[RN7]

I'm amused by the "Celtic" culture that is promoted by some Irish folk as exclusively Irish (a minority but prominent). I'd hate to point out to them that over the centuries the Celts got shoved progressively westward across Europe into Brittany and thence northward across the channel. Their origin? Where half of my bloodlines come from--Central Europe!

I can't recall anyone here stating that "Celtic culture" has been promoted by any Irish people as being exclusively Irish. Also I hate to point out the fact to you that "Celtic culture" has existed in the British Isles since pre-historic times (the 1st Millenium BC), despite the encroachment of the Romans and Germanic peoples into "Celtic" regions of north-western Europe.

Also Brittany got its name from the Celtic Britons who migrated from Britain from the 5th Century AD onwards to western France after the Anglo-Saxon invasion/migration to Britain. The previous name for Brittany was Amorica, and the people who lived their were also Celtic.

The origins of the Celts is unknown. They were undoubtably of a largely north European racial origin, but they were not of a singular racial type. The first development of " Celtic" civilation on the European continent seems to point to a central European origin in the middle of the 1st Millenium BC, but they may have ultimatly originated further east in Russia/Ukraine along with other cultures as there are some parallels with the Scythian culture of Russia and Central Asia.

Also the Celtic origins of the Irish is disputed. DNA links the Irish quite closely with not only the British but the Spanish as well, and the Basques in particular. The so called "Celtic culture" which developed in the British Isles may have been an offshoot of a cultural diffusion from Europe along with some migration by warrior elites and their families and cohorts who gradually dominated the locals. The same thing pretty much happened with the Anglo-Saxons, the Vikings and Normans to varying degrees.

A large chunk of the other half of me derived from Scandinavian traders, the Rus, whose markets extended downriver from the Baltic, again, into the Caucasus. If my research on my family genealogy is correct, I have a little Teutonic Knight in me. And to top it all off, as I look at my high cheekbones in the mirror, I am left with a suspicion there had been a Mongol in the woodpile several generations back. (They, uh, toured the area several times, ya see.)

The Rus also came to Ireland and Britain about a thousand years ago, in fact they founded most of the towns in Ireland and made a contribution to the Irish gene pool. A lot of people in Ireland and people of Irish origin are tall, blonde with high cheek bones, as am I. Yet my Irish origins stretch back centuries with the exception of an English great grandfather. It has been said by a more than a few people that I look like Dolph Lundgren, but personally I think I'm better looking!

[headquarters]

Up here there is terrain that makes most large scale migrations seem unlikely , but even still there have been influxes of people from the south ,east and north in intervalls.

After the last round of great migrations in app 400 AD things settled down somewhat with a "normal trickle of migration .But as things developed slaves were imported to an extent were scientists believe that as much as 25% of the population were from different populations .These ranged from Northern Africa to Byzantium to the Slavic kingdoms like Kiev etc .Especially the Irish were taken -due to the internal wars going on there and the strong position of the Norse enclaves , alot of Irish ended up as thralls in Norway and Denmark .On the other hand,many norse intermingled with the Irish ( and brits) so the mix up goes both ways I suppose.
Considering the range these empires had on their sphere of influence the mix is vastly complex.

The Icelandic people are emigrees from an age before the heyday of the slavery business and thus more homogenous in their ancestry .They have also been isolated far from any large population bases and thus retain much of their initial makeup,language etc from ca 1000 AD.

Norway as a modern nation has just started to come to terms with being a multi ethnic society these last 5-10 years.Before the whole ethnicity topic was a big no no for fear of stepping on someones toes one way or the other.

The debates still goes on - what to call the child of pakistani immigrants that came here to work in the 1970s ? Norwegian -Pakistani or just Norwegian ?

My ethnic group ? - why I am an RPGer of the T2K subcategory.

[Targan]

I'm mostly Scots with some Irish, English and Cornish blood.

[Nowhere Man 1966]

Kosovar Serb, Russian and Russian Jew on Dad's side, German and Swedish on Mom's.

Chuck

[stilleto69]

I remember when it used to just ask "Race" and I would check the "Other" box and write "HUMAN" just to see what they would report.

[Graebarde]

Census takers were here the other day, asked me my RACE.. told them Sprints (as in Sprint cars)


Myself I'm 1/2 Norwegian (with a Welsh name????) on my father's side.. Immigarated to US in 1883 (which started in 1872) to homestead in Dakota Terr (NoDak) There IS a story in there BTW according to our family geneologist.

Other half is true all-American.. German, Dutch, English, Scott-Irish, Irish, Choctaw (way back some where so they say), and who knows what else.. perhaps some Afircan even.. Mom's side is all southern... My grandma's grandpa rode with 'Bloody Bill' Anderson.. all she would say about that was he was a butcher of women and kids... some linage eh? (Josey Wales with Clint Eastwood was with Anderson)

[Mohoender]

The only think we are ask for is weither or not we are French (meaning citizen). For the rest, ethnic group is something strange. For my part, I'm not even sure I know.

What, I can say is that my grandmother on my father's side looks like a mix between a Spanish and an Arabic with denied rumors of Jewish descent. Other historical backgrounds are: French, Flemish, Wallon, Provençal, Italian (Sardigna, Genoa), English (including some scots and welsh)... Enjoy:D.

Anyway, since a friend of mine had a surprise with his first born, I'm convinced this is the most unmeaningful possible question (unless you live in a rainforest or a desert). The man is French (blond and blue eyes) and his wife is Swedish (blond and blue eyes) and their first born was black (curly hairs and dark eyes). No she didn't cheated on him but five generations before, on her side, someone married a black woman. The kid was born twenty years ago, what do you think he shoud answer today if going to US?

Obviously caucasian but it might not be that obvious to US immigration.

[Webstral]

-- our species basically has no specializations adapting it for any specific climate or environment, except that it in general not be too hot or too cold.

I read an interesting piece on how well-evolved our African ancestors are for life on the grasslands bordering forests. An upright human being has approximately 7% of his surface area exposed to the direct rays of the sun during the hottest part of the day. Add in thick, tightly-curled hair, and the amount of exposure to direct sun is much less than that of any of the animals in the environment. This, and sweating, enable the big brain to stay cooler. So while the big brain and the hands are the trump cards, the body has mutated to support the trump cards.

The white folks among us represent a small but significant shift in morphology. Developing in central Asia as we are supposed to have done, we needed a lot less protection from the sun--thus the loss of melanin. Since early Caucasians were covering up so much, the usual physical signs of health and vitality were hidden under furs. Some beilieve that blonde hair evolved as a means of showing maturity: very light blonde meaning too young for coupling, darker blonde meaning suitable for child-bearing, and darker blonde meaning nearing the end of child-bearing age. I don't know how much credence to give these ideas, but I find them interesting.

Whether we're still evolving depends a good deal on what one means by evolving. We may have fewer genes being trimmed from the pool, but this is a part of punctuated evolution. The gene pool expands as our population fills the available niches. When circumstances change, a die-off determines which traits are going to remain in the new gene pool. My son brings together genetic lines that haven't crossed since homo sapiens was restricted to Africa. Is his rather unique combination of hair color, skin pigmentation, ocular configuration, nose shape, blood chemistry, and other traits going to be successful down the road? Unknown. But he represents a morphology almost unseen in the world iuntil very recently. Many other types are emerging as a rapid pace. I think this means that we are still evolving, albeit in a direction that is hard to predict.

Webstral

Webstral

[RN7]

Some beilieve that blonde hair evolved as a means of showing maturity: very light blonde meaning too young for coupling, darker blonde meaning suitable for child-bearing, and darker blonde meaning nearing the end of child-bearing age. I don't know how much credence to give these ideas, but I find them interesting.

There is another theory that blonde hair first evolved in women in and around the last ice age in northern climates. The theory is that there was a shortage of fit young men due to the incredible tough and sometimes hazardous living conditions among hunter gatherer people who eeked out a living in Europe and much of western Asia at the end of the last Ice Age, and blonde hair evolved naturally among women who were competing to make themselves more attractive to men who could look after them. The attraction of blonde haired women to men has remained ever since, and it is known that Roman women sometimes dyed their hair blonde for the same reason that modern women do.

Blonde and red hair and blue and green eye colour is also relatively common among people who have no direct links with Europeans, but probably have some ancient European genetic links across Asia and North Africa, especially the Pathans of Pakistan, India and Afghanistan, the Kurds and the Berbers of North Africa. But it also occurs naturally among people who have no link to Europeans, such as Australian aboriginals and Native Americans in parts of South America.

[pmulcahy11b]

I remember when it used to just ask "Race" and I would check the "Other" box and write "HUMAN" just to see what they would report.

I think it would have been funnier to write "NONHUMAN."

[Mohoender]

Blonde and red hair and blue and green eye colour is also relatively common among people who have no direct links with Europeans, but probably have some ancient European genetic links across Asia and North Africa, especially the Pathans of Pakistan, India and Afghanistan, the Kurds and the Berbers of North Africa. But it also occurs naturally among people who have no link to Europeans, such as Australian aboriginals and Native Americans in parts of South America.

For the Kurds, I have no clue.

For the Berber there is nothing surprising. Once upon a time the Roman Empire ruled these regions. Later they were inveded by Visigoth before being invaded a few hundred years later by Vikings. Not to talk of slave being brought to Al Djazhair.

For Pakistan and India nothing surprising either when you know that the European ethnic group doesn't exist. It's Indo-European.:)

[stilleto69]

I think it would have been funnier to write "NONHUMAN."

Come to think of it I once answered "Terran" just to see if the questioner knew what that was.

[Webstral]

Blonde and red hair and blue and green eye colour is also relatively common among people who have no direct links with Europeans, but probably have some ancient European genetic links across Asia and North Africa, especially the Pathans of Pakistan, India and Afghanistan, the Kurds and the Berbers of North Africa. But it also occurs naturally among people who have no link to Europeans, such as Australian aboriginals and Native Americans in parts of South America.

It makes sense that the recessive blue eye gene would survive in various populations. If the recessive gene wasn't in the gene pool in the first place, it wouldn't have been available for the Indo-Europeans when they emerged in central Asia.

Webstral

P.S. Women competing for the affections of a handful of males... By Jove, I like the sound of that! Of course, I'm sure there's a Midas-esque downside to that golden situation.

[RN7]

For the Berber there is nothing surprising. Once upon a time the Roman Empire ruled these regions. Later they were inveded by Visigoth before being invaded a few hundred years later by Vikings. Not to talk of slave being brought to Al Djazhair.

The Greeks and Phonecians were also there before the Romans, but the origins of the Berbers has been a topic of debate for quite sometime among historians and anthropologists. The ancient Egyptians who bordered them in North Africa described them as white skinned with red hair, a depiction that was still generally around in Roman times. Also it is known that Rameses II who was probably the most famous of the Pharoes had red hair, and it is thought he might have had Berber ancestors. It is possible that the Berbers are closely related to the original people who inhabited the Mediterranean basin after the last Ice Age, hense the European features which are still fairly common among them today, and later migrations, trade and conquests only mixed thing up even more.

[Targan]

Blonde and red hair and blue and green eye colour is also relatively common among people who have no direct links with Europeans, but probably have some ancient European genetic links across Asia and North Africa, especially the Pathans of Pakistan, India and Afghanistan, the Kurds and the Berbers of North Africa. But it also occurs naturally among people who have no link to Europeans, such as Australian aboriginals and Native Americans in parts of South America.

Blonde hair and blue eyes in Australian Aborigines? Only those with some Caucasian blood. Sometimes you see indigenous Australians with reddish or dirty blonde hair but that is because it is sun bleached.

A better example of antipodean indigenous folk with what would normally be considered caucasoid colouring would be the Moriori folk that lived in New Zealand before the arrival of the Maori about 1000 years ago. They were said to have fair complexions and red hair. They were pretty much wiped out by the Maori before the arrival of Europeans but there is some evidence of interbreeding because some of the Maori tribes in the far south of New Zealand's South Island have red hair to this day.

[pmulcahy11b]

Blonde hair and blue eyes in Australian Aborigines? Only those with some Caucasian blood. Sometimes you see indigenous Australians with reddish or dirty blonde hair but that is because it is sun bleached.

These days? Quite possible. It's theoretically possible, with modern travel, for an Aborigine to marry and have kids with a Norwegian Lapplander. (Boy, that's be an interesting combination!)

I remember reading somewhere when I was a teenager that by the year 3000, we will all be essentially one race, with few ethnic differences between anyone on the planet. The author hypothesized that our skin color and features will look sort of Polynesian, with differences in eye color and a bit less in hair color.

[RN7]

Blonde hair and blue eyes in Australian Aborigines? Only those with some Caucasian blood. Sometimes you see indigenous Australians with reddish or dirty blonde hair but that is because it is sun bleached.

Well that is probable, but I believe blonde Aboriginals were also reported in the early days of exploration of Australia. Possible some shipwrecked sailors mixed with the locals, there was a bit of Dutch activity around the shores of Australia before the British decided to make it into a colony.

A better example of antipodean indigenous folk with what would normally be considered caucasoid colouring would be the Moriori folk that lived in New Zealand before the arrival of the Maori about 1000 years ago. They were said to have fair complexions and red hair. They were pretty much wiped out by the Maori before the arrival of Europeans but there is some evidence of interbreeding because some of the Maori tribes in the far south of New Zealand's South Island have red hair to this day.

I think I would be a bit skeptic about an ancient tribe of caucasians reaching New Zealand a few thousand years ago all the same. But on the other hand there has been some reports of non-stereotypical Native Americans being sighted by early explorers in all parts of the America's, as well as images of people who look very African, Middle Eastern, Oriental and European. There has even been some skeletons and artifacts found that don't quite fit the Berring Strait theory, and some contraversial genetic evidence which points to the possibility that there is some pre-Columban European blood among some Native American groups in North America.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Well that is probable, but I believe blonde Aboriginals were also reported in the early days of exploration of Australia. Possible some shipwrecked sailors mixed with the locals, there was a bit of Dutch activity around the shores of Australia before the British decided to make it into a colony.

There's also the Portuguese who were trading in the region of Indonesia and Timor about 100 years before the Dutch

[Gabe The Gun]

Or why can't you just put American??????

[Webstral]

Or why can't you just put American??????

Many do. It seems that in every state in every census, a significant percent (>1%) claim only "American".

Webstral