British army combat service support Pre options for change

[dude_uk]

Morning all

Got a request if any one can help me with it. I'm having trouble finding a complete ORBAT for all the combat service support arms of the British army.

My attempts to find this information out having met a brick wall. Most books give the names of the units but no specific information on numbers or regiment strength.

Its A very strange course of events when books quite happily give information how many battalions the infantry have, but are unwilling to tell me how many regiments the Royal corps of transport have! I know more about the SAS at the time than the Royal ordnance corps.

So can anyone help guide me to website or give a book title for the details about their role in BOAR and a complete ORBAT for them. The units requested are.

Royal Army Medical Corps
Royal Army Ordnance Corps
Royal Corps of Transport
Royal Army Service Corps
Royal military police
Army catering corps.


Thanks again!

[pmulcahy11b]

The British Army has a Catering Corps!!!???

[TiggerCCW UK]

We used to :) Post 'Options for change' they are now part of the Royal Logistics Corps.

[perardua]

And now it's time for that tired old joke:
The British Army cook's course is the hardest in the world, none of them have passed it yet.

I thank you.

[pmulcahy11b]

I've always wondered: if it's the "Royal Navy" and the "Royal Air Force" and the "Royal Marines," why don't the British call it the "Royal Army"? Has the royalty got something against the Army?

[TiggerCCW UK]

Some individual regiments have the 'Royal' prefix in their names (Royal Artillery, Royal Dragoons, Royal Irish etc) but the army as a whole is not classed as Royal due to some units siding against the Royallists in the civil war, iirc.

[perardua]

I believe it's actually because A) Unlike the RAF, RN and RM, the Army wasn't formed as a single unit, but is instead composed of individually raised regiments and corps; and B) the British Army requires Parliamentary Authority to exist in peacetime, whilst the other services don't.


In contrast to the Royal Navy, Royal Marines and Royal Air Force, the British Army does not include Royal in its title. This is because, historically, British Armies comprised individually raised regiments and corps. The position of the British Army as the Army of Parliament and not the Crown was confirmed by the Bill of Rights of 1689 requiring Parliamentary Authority to maintain a standing army in peacetime. Nevertheless, many of its constituent Regiments and Corps have been granted the "Royal" prefix and have members of the Royal Family occupying senior positions within some regiments.

EDIT: Wikipedia says:
In contrast to the Royal Navy, Royal Marines and Royal Air Force, the British Army does not include Royal in its title. This is because, historically, British Armies comprised individually raised regiments and corps. The position of the British Army as the Army of Parliament and not the Crown was confirmed by the Bill of Rights of 1689 requiring Parliamentary Authority to maintain a standing army in peacetime. Nevertheless, many of its constituent Regiments and Corps have been granted the "Royal" prefix and have members of the Royal Family occupying senior positions within some regiments.

[Rainbow Six]

Hey Dude, long time no speak. How are you?

For the BAOR there is a book called "The British Army in Germany: An Organizational History" by Graham Watson and Richard Rinaldi that may be of interest to you. It runs to around 160 pages and whilst I don't think it will answer all of your questions (for a start it doesn't give unit strengths), it does give very detailed Orbats for the BAOR (down to Battalion level or equivalent) at various points in its history, including which elements of the REME, RCT, RAOC (and then RLC) were part of the BAOR, which Division they were assigned to, etc.

I was able to get a copy online from waterstones a while ago for just over ten quid. You can get a free preview online here

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ZNm0n9SwRQIC&printsec=frontcover&dq=graham+watson+richard+rinaldi&source=bl&ots=c59I2lKcQM&sig=WJ_5jfu_2DgkVGH23bkKJRY7BOo&hl=en&ei=OdLdS4uHOIPu-QaNsoyXBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

If you're interested in the TA units you might want to check out this website, which has a fair amount of info:

http://www.win.tue.nl/~drenth/BritArmy/Lineage/lineage.html

If you ever find anything on the RMP please let me know!

Hope that helps

Cheers

[pmulcahy11b]

And now it's time for that tired old joke:
The British Army cook's course is the hardest in the world, none of them have passed it yet.

I thank you.

Author! Author! (A tired old US joke that's short for "Get the Author!")

[Ramjam]

Ok where to start......?

Royal Army Ordnance Corps, Royal Corps of Transport and the Army Catering Corps sadly no longer exist. They were clubbed together in 1993 into the Royal Logistics Corps along with the Royal Pioneer Corps.

Their main task now is to provide logistic support for the Army.

In english they provide everything that allows the army to move, live and fight in a modern war.

Some of their other duties include sorting the army mail (29 Postal Courier and Movement Regiment RLC), EOD work (11 EOD Regiment RLC) and running the Army's only ships and railways (17 Port and Maritime Regiment (includes 79 Railway Squadron RLC).

Currently there are 24 Regts and 7 Ind Sqdrs in the regular army and a extra 17 Regts in the TA.

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Royal Army Service Corps was merged into the RCT and ROAC in 1965 (and these were merged in the RLC in 93).

[Abbott Shaull]

One has to remember back in the day when Officers could buy their rank, all a Colonel of Regiment not only purchased the title of the office. They had to recruit the troops and equip said troops, part of the reason why Colonels were so willing to sell appointments to Lt, Captain, Major and so within their Regiment too.

In the US similar thing happen up to the US-Spanish War depending on the emergency that the US found itself in. At the start of the Civil War many of the local state raised Regiments either from militia or newly raised organization joined the Army with Officer who were elected from the ranks at company level. In other cases if a person had the wealth or could organize such an undertaking would raise a Regiment and enter service as it Colonel. Of course many of these Officers didn't last too long once their Regiment entered battle. The lucky ones never seen the battlefield.

[dude_uk]

Hey Dude, long time no speak. How are you?



Hello again! Sorry if I seemed to go quiet for a while after our email correspondence. Got busy for a while on University work and life in general. How goes your Scotland and Cornwall Projects?


For the BAOR there is a book called "The British Army in Germany: An Organizational History" by Graham Watson and Richard Rinaldi that may be of interest to you.

Thanks will definitely give that a go, It seems that the units were assigned in BOAR were given the name and number of the division they were assigned to (I.e 1ST Armoured Division Transport regiment.)


If you're interested in the TA units
If you ever find anything on the RMP please let me know!
Hope that helps
Cheers

I have a book called "Encyclopaedia of the Territorial Army" a very useful book that helps to track down some of the more Elusive TA units. No numbers or unit names for the intelligence corps or catering corps though.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=-kIGAgAACAAJ&dq=Encyclopaedia+of+the+Territorial+Army&cd=10

It lists the TA RMP as 5 Independent companies which are -

116 Company at West Bromwich, Coventry, Old Trafford and Cardiff
243 Company in Edinburgh, Glenthroes and Stranraer
252 Company in Stockton on Tees, Hull and Gateshead
253 Company in South London Brighton and Southampton
254 Company in Northern Ireland

163 and 164 provost companies with an SIB detachment at TA HQ in Chichester. No details if they are UKLF or BOAR Assigned.

I managed to have a complete ORBAT for the entire British army circa 1989 thanks to Tank-net. But it does not go as far as combat service support. Looks like a trek to some Obscure military library is in order. Why is information on the Regular units assigned UKLF so elusive?!

Hope this helps

[Rainbow Six]

Hello again! Sorry if I seemed to go quiet for a while after our email correspondence. Got busy for a while on University work and life in general. How goes your Scotland and Cornwall Projects?

I'm still working on them. At the minute I'm trying to get Plymouth and Exeter sorted out, but progress is really slow...like yourself I have other stuff going on which is taking precedence - work, family etc. Some weeks I feel like I'm making good progress and other weeks I seem to be getting absolutely nowhere fast. Devon and Cornwall is my main focus but when I feel like I'm not getting anywhere I switch to Scotland for a bit...

I do have some stuff on the Duke of Cornwall and the Cornish resistance and a couple of unfinished pieces on Scotland posted on these boards. I also got a fairly complete UK timeline and order of battle done for 1996 - 2000...just look up threads started by Rainbow Six is you want to take a look at any of it...some of the stuff in the timeline is your input based on some of the e mails we swapped last year...

Cheers

[Ramjam]

If you want help with any info on Cornwall or Plymouth feel free to ask mate.

I lived in Saltash (I'll always consider Cornwall my home) for 16 yrs and was a Army Cadet in Cornwall and got to know the area etc really well.

[Rainbow Six]

Ramjam, appreciate the offer.

Cheers mate

Dave

[Ironside]

The British Army has a Catering Corps!!!???

Royal Army Catering Corp aka Royal Aldershot Cement Company ;)