Here's a Weird Picture

[pmulcahy11b]

A US vehicle -- with a DShK mounted on it!

[Mahatatain]

A couple of possible idiot questions from me.

1. How do you know that that is a US vehicle? I'm not saying that it isn't, I'm just interested to know how you know for certain.

2. Could the photo be the result of some clever photoshop? The two MG's look like they'd get in the way of each other to me.

[Eddie]

It's an Iraqi Army Humvee.

[pmulcahy11b]

Sorry -- saw the helmet and jumped to conclusions (or more like leaped headlong into conclusions).

[StainlessSteelCynic]

The other machinegun is a PKM variant.
I also found it interesting that the cupola had rear-vision mirrors on its side - a simple and easy way to allow some awareness of the environment to the rear of the cupola.
Eddie, do you know if that camouflage on the uniform is unique to the Iraqi forces or is it adopted from another nation? It doesn't look like any of the patterns that the other coalition forces wear from what I can tell (but my knowledge is rather limited to the few photos I've seen in the media)

[HorseSoldier]

What's up with the camouflage pattern on the uniform, too? Looks a little like British desert DPM, but not quite right.

The LMG looks like some member of the PK family as well.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Sorry HorseSoldier, I beat you to the questions by a mere half minute or so!

[Eddie]

The IA wear whatever uniforms they can get their hands on. Their logistics system is woefully lacking. The senior officers stockpile everything and hold on to it for "when they need it." The typical Jundi gets crap, while new stuff sits in a warehouse. You'll see woodland, cookie dough deserts, British, ACUs, and any other variant of camouflage you can think of.

[Gabe The Gun]

Also, the guy in the vehicle is whiter than any Iraqi Iv'e ever seen, so whats the next explanation?

[Raellus]

I'd be willing to wager that it's a Polish soldier. The Polish have maintained a small force in Iraq since the get-go. They have their own desert pattern camo that looks a little like British desert DPM and use Soviet-Bloc weapons. The PK and the Dushka are both liscence-built in Poland. In Iraq, they sometimes borrow American-made armored vehicles like up-armored Humvees and MRAPs but I've also seen Tarpan-Honker (a Polish-made wheeled utility vehicle that looks like a cross between a Land Rover and a UAZ-69) gun trucks. I'm not sure what kind of vehicle is in the picture, though.

[Eddie]

Also, the guy in the vehicle is whiter than any Iraqi Iv'e ever seen, so whats the next explanation?

Wow. Your eyes must be much better than my 20/10 vision. All I see is a gunner with his face shaded from his K-pot. I don't know that he's an Iraqi soldier, but I'll wager any amount of money you want to on it.


I'm not sure what kind of vehicle is in the picture, though.

Look at the trunk lid. It's a Humvee.

[pmulcahy11b]

Also, the guy in the vehicle is whiter than any Iraqi Iv'e ever seen, so whats the next explanation?

Maybe he's a contractor?

[Eddie]

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/polish-army-desert-uniform-jacket

Doesn't look like that IMHO.

[Eddie]

Maybe he's a contractor?

Nah. No ball cap. No Patagonia shirt. No highspeed combat rig. Entirely too PX to be a contractor.

[cavtroop]

Here's a few more DShK's on Hummers:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/1151_with_DSHK.JPG - big pic

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/7774/319532557rz.jpg

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/7774/319532557rz.jpg

[Tegyrius]

I've got them on the brain right now, but it could be Czech. Here's their current desert camo pattern:

http://camo.henrikc.dk/details.asp?autono=144

ISTR the Czechs using HMMWVs for their Afghanistan operations with PRT Logar. Don't know if they were bought or borrowed, but I could have sworn I found mention of them hanging AGS-17s on the things.

Edit: Found it. Scroll down and HMMWVs with similar turrets are visible starting around the sixth photo of post #26:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?139969-Armoured-Tactical-4x4-s&p=3472252&viewfull=1#post3472252

- C.

[Eddie]

Yep, I think you do. Good thing you replied before Gabe did. Still, I've never said I couldn't be wrong, and the Iraqi supply system anecdote still applies.

[HorseSoldier]

And besides being white, that gunner's lack of a mustache makes me skeptical on his Iraqi credentials . . .

[Eddie]

And besides being white, that gunner's lack of a mustache makes me skeptical on his Iraqi credentials . . .

True! But...

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y80/edthomas/P10006642.jpg

Third from the right looks pretty white to me as well and with no moustache.

I'm just sayin'.

[Tegyrius]

Yep, I think you do. Good thing you replied before Gabe did. Still, I've never said I couldn't be wrong, and the Iraqi supply system anecdote still applies.
Agreed. I'm not 100% sure on the camo pattern, and even if I'm right, it could be Czech gear in Iraqi hands, too. I've seen a few posts here and there indicating that the ACR is surplussing off a buttload of vz.58s and 7.62x39mm to Iraq as an excuse to go ahead and buy new NATO-spec small arms. If that's true, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see them donating uniforms and other hardware. Their drawdown over the last two decades has left rather a lot of equipment rusting and rotting in warehouses.

- C.

[Gabe The Gun]

guess im done with this forum, c ya', thanks for all your help with the game though gentlemen.

[jester]

It looks so wrong form them to be wearing those uniforms.

[Gabe The Gun]

and ill bet that white guy is one of the fellas sent to train those loppy asses!

[Grimace]

Yeah, I know the Iraqis are giving it their all, but I just have to chuckle at the hodge podge of gear they use. Those uniforms are funny. Are any two the same?;)

[Webstral]

One does see quite the variety. Still, I'm glad that they aren't investing more in standarizing their gear. The country remains in serious need. It's a terrible shame to think that in 1978 things were looking quite good for Iraq. I wonder what Hussein would have done differently, if anything, if he could have seen thirty years into the future when he came to power.

Webstral

[Raellus]

The motley appearance of the Iraqis in that photo probably mirrors the hodge-podge of uniform items soldiers would be wearing in the later stages of the Twilight War.

[Gabe The Gun]

The motley appearance of the Iraqis in that photo probably mirrors the hodge-podge of uniform items soldiers would be wearing in the later stages of the Twilight War.

Close, but our beloved games hodge-podge would be FAR worse, rarely to see two outfit alike in my opionion

[HorseSoldier]

I figure there'd be an attempt to at least keep some standardization among organized forces, both for IFF purposes and to help instill some extra discipline and cohesion when trying to incorporate the last ditch levies of conscripts from back home and any volunteers who can be rounded up from host country militia who speak enough English (or whatever) to work with.

My take was that there'd be an attempt to get everyone in at least generally matching tops -- shirts/jackets/smocks/whatever. If available supplies of woodland BDU, DPM, flecktarn, etc., weren't available, I'd picture a lot of units in winter cantonment making up garments that matched pretty well, even if the end result looked more like a WW2 Denison smock with colors matching whatever camo pattern was appropriate.

I could see oversized national flags possibly gaining popularity and (much as it pains me to think about it) am emphasis on things like nice and shiny boots and pressed uniforms (in cantonment, anyway) and such, with the goal being to distinguish organized military forces from the marauders who may have just raped and looted their way through the same town while at least some of them were wearing pretty much the same uniforms, carrying the same weapons, and operating the same vehicles.

[waiting4something]

I know the Chechs do use Hmmvws. When I was in Kuwait with a CJTF I had to do port security waiting for these Chech Hmmwv's to come in on a ship. They where supposed to be then driven back to our base by these third country nationals. However, their was some labor dispute so when the vehicles got there we waited around for another 12-13 hours. Their wasn't enough nationals to drive all the hmmwvs back so half are security had to drive the other ones too.:confused: It was chaos. I saw more wrecks that night then ever in my whole life. I don't think most this guys ever drove before in there life, and we lost a good number of them before we made it back. Plenty that did make it there where busted up too. We had a couple close calls ourselfs as I remember getting whipped around like a rag doll up top as my driver evaded a couple accidents. You just kept going no matter what and never stopped to see how anyone was. It was just pieces of automobiles shattered all over the highway. I felt sorry for the Kuwaiti's, I sure they never got a warning a bunch of people who couldn't drive where going turn their highway into a autobrahn/demolition derby.

[Targan]

I know the Chechs do use Hmmvws. When I was in Kuwait with a CJTF I had to do port security waiting for these Chech Hmmwv's to come in on a ship. They where supposed to be then driven back to our base by these third country nationals. However, their was some labor dispute so when the vehicles got there we waited around for another 12-13 hours. Their wasn't enough nationals to drive all the hmmwvs back so half are security had to drive the other ones too.:confused: It was chaos. I saw more wrecks that night then ever in my whole life. I don't think most this guys ever drove before in there life, and we lost a good number of them before we made it back. Plenty that did make it there where busted up too. We had a couple close calls ourselfs as I remember getting whipped around like a rag doll up top as my driver evaded a couple accidents. You just kept going no matter what and never stopped to see how anyone was. It was just pieces of automobiles shattered all over the highway. I felt sorry for the Kuwaiti's, I sure they never got a warning a bunch of people who couldn't drive where going turn their highway into a autobrahn/demolition derby.
Crazy story man. I love it!

[waiting4something]

Yeah, another point I have to add was I had never fired or worked with a M2HB before or anything in a turrent ring. But they just said "here you go". Thankfully we had a couple guys from a CATT team in are security team that told me I have to cock the weapon and then quater cock it after that. I was like "why"? They tried to explain, but I said "f--k it, I'll cock it twice". They said "yeah that works too, just do that".

[Eddie]

One does see quite the variety. Still, I'm glad that they aren't investing more in standarizing their gear. The country remains in serious need. It's a terrible shame to think that in 1978 things were looking quite good for Iraq. I wonder what Hussein would have done differently, if anything, if he could have seen thirty years into the future when he came to power.

Webstral

They have huge quantities of new gear, like I said. It's just that it's being hoarded at division-level storage facilities and not issued down to the Jundis. The IA soldiers in Baghdad have it a little better due to all of the eyes being there, but you get into the outskirts of Baghdad...not so much. Just for the record, we were 20 km north in Taji, so you can see how quickly it breaks down for them.

[Eddie]

and ill bet that white guy is one of the fellas sent to train those loppy asses!

Other than the fact that I took the picture, I think the Iraqi flag on his right shoulder is a bit of a giveaway.

[headquarters]

They can be blond,have red hair or have green or blue eyes as well -although rare .

Saddam Hussein had at least one Iraqi woman mistress that was blond ( her nickname was "the Blonde" in Arabic ).She was from a Greek minority living in Baghdad.

Also met a few middle eastern types with blue eyes - not to mention Turkish people with light skin and green,blue or grey eyes.

They have had a lot of influx down there for milleniae.

Just saying that it exists .

Cool pics Eddie .

[Eddie]

Thanks, HQ. It kind of got me to thinking that a few postings of my pictures could add some real flavor to peoples' games. Someone said it earlier, they pretty much typify what most people conjure in their mind's eye.

[pmulcahy11b]

One girl I want out with in college was blond-haired, green-eyed, fair-skinned -- and a Hispanic girl from Puerto Rico. Her ancestors were from a region of Spain where such features were common. Apparently there are a lot of them in Puerto Rico. I didn't even know she was Hispanic (though she did speak Spanish fluently) until a chance conversation with one of her friends.