Stuff you have because you've played Twilight:2000

[Adm.Lee]

Somewhere inside, I have one of those survivalist guys-- he must be the one that got me to play T2k and Morrow Project way back when. Sometimes, I will see stuff like camping gear, and think, "ooh, that would be useful!"-- except I never go camping or hunting, or much of anything in the wild, as I have pretty stiff allergies.

One thing that I did hang onto, just in case, you know, was a slide rule. My father and grandfather were both engineering school graduates in the days before calculators or desktop computers. Someone apparently gave Grandpap a slide rule, likely some salesman, since there is a company name stamped on the casing. Grandpap probably had one already, since this one is still in its original box, with some faded instructions still inside. I think I picked it up when we were cleaning out the house. Pop didn't want to see one of those ever again, and I had no idea how to use it. "Why not?" I figured, and stuck it in my own desk drawer, to be forgotten about. "If we ever get hit with an EMP, I could be the best-equipped nerd around!"

This weekend, my science-mad 8-year old found it (I was dumping out desk drawers, looking for something else), and wanted to know what it was. Now, he is trying to figure it out, alternating between bouts of tears and joy.

Anyone else have something really old and marginally useful?

[pmulcahy11b]

I not only have gigabytes of T2K material -- I have even more gigabytes of military stuff I researched or downloaded because I researching stuff for T2K. And then there are the huge amount of books in my book room that are either military-related or T2K-related. And the ridiculous amount of military-based facts in my head that I learned because I was researching stuff for T2K.

[shrike6]

I not only have gigabytes of T2K material -- I have even more gigabytes of military stuff I researched or downloaded because I researching stuff for T2K. And then there are the huge amount of books in my book room that are either military-related or T2K-related. And the ridiculous amount of military-based facts in my head that I learned because I was researching stuff for T2K.
What he said.

[Matt Wiser]

Ditto. And having gone to a surplus store a couple of times and actually bought some MREs. They actually had the tuna and noodle entree, and tons of the Chicken a la King one-nobody, and I mean nobody, bought those, the clerk told me. He was wondering why a college kid was buying a couple of MREs, and when I told him I did the Twilight:2000 game, he said "Oh, one of those." Seems some kids from a nearby high school did the game, and bought some MREs as well. FYI, I got the tuna and noodle meal, along with the beef patties one. Not bad in either case.

[pmulcahy11b]

I came out of the Army with lots of military gear, including several MREs. I ate the MREs within weeks of getting out, and most of the military gear dry-rotted long ago. All I have left is my Class A uniform with full decorations, one set of BDUs (neither will ever fit me again), and my jump boots. Every so often, I take out the Class A uniform and the jump boots and polish them and the brass up. Oh, and I still have my Swiss Army Knife, my dagger, my Airborne beret, a flag from Camp Casey in Korea, and the mini-binoculars I used in the Army. (I actually still have my signal flasher too, but the battery went dead long ago.) And I have a personal copy of the records of my psychiatric treatment at Walter Reed and Womack AMC on Ft. Bragg.

[headquarters]

touching on a soft spot for me here - I have tons of stuff that hardly ever get used.my wifes just rolls her eyes .

But sometimes I go camping and hunting and the preferred gear at the moment gets some fresh air.

Apart from books like "where there is no doctor" and military manuals that I picked up in the army or because of game research there is clothing,ammo,boots,stoves,NBC gear,guns,tools,rations ( Drytech - excellent Norwegian kit as long as water is available),binoculars,reloading press,bandages,shelter halfs etc etc

Now,that being said I am not one of those "right wing-long for the day when I will be proven right-teotwawki-romancers" - more of a tongue in cheek type.

But I dont hide the fact that I dream of a plot with enough space for a garden and with its own artesian well...I mean -how great would it be for the kids to have access to such facilities ?

( Although the real reason is that daddy is planning on building the "stout yeomanry" from T2K V.2.0 encounters chapter ;) )

What puzzles me sometimes is this - if tshtf - and my situation allowed me some nights of in between chores etc - would I still play T2K ? :D

Or would it be a non violent,every thing is a plenty ,remembering the old days game ?

GM :"You enter the 7-11.The smell of freshly baked goods reach your nostrils..your wallet is brimming with cash..what do you do ?!"

Player " I strike up a pleasant conversation with the clerk and purchase ..lets see... "

Weird notion .I know.

:rolleyes:

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

touching on a soft spot for me here - I have tons of stuff that hardly ever get used.my wifes just rolls her eyes .

But sometimes I go camping and hunting and the preferred gear at the moment gets some fresh air.

Apart from books like "where there is no doctor" and military manuals that I picked up in the army or because of game research there is clothing,ammo,boots,stoves,NBC gear,guns,tools,rations ( Drytech - excellent Norwegian kit as long as water is available),binoculars,reloading press,bandages,shelter halfs etc etc

Now,that being said I am not one of those "right wing-long for the day when I will be proven right-teotwawki-romancers" - more of a tongue in cheek type.

But I dont hide the fact that I dream of a plot with enough space for a garden and with its own artesian well...I mean -how great would it be for the kids to have access to such facilities ?

( Although the real reason is that daddy is planning on building the "stout yeomanry" from T2K V.2.0 encounters chapter ;) )

What puzzles me sometimes is this - if tshtf - and my situation allowed me some nights of in between chores etc - would I still play T2K ? :D

Or would it be a non violent,every thing is a plenty ,remembering the old days game ?

GM :"You enter the 7-11.The smell of freshly baked goods reach your nostrils..your wallet is brimming with cash..what do you do ?!"

Player " I strike up a pleasant conversation with the clerk and purchase ..lets see... "

Weird notion .I know.

:rolleyes:

LOL probably both

[Rainbow Six]

I have a multitude of twenty year old maps and tourist info for places that I'll never visit...e.g. Iran, Yerevan in Armenia (when it was still part of the USSR and I had a daft notion that a campaign set in the Free City of Yerevan was a good idea).

[headquarters]

I have a multitude of twenty year old maps and tourist info for places that I'll never visit...e.g. Iran, Yerevan in Armenia (when it was still part of the USSR and I had a daft notion that a campaign set in the Free City of Yerevan was a good idea).

In the USSR era ,there were political and "subversive jokes " floating around -if you got questioned by someone where you had come by such material people oftened answered "Radio Yerevan" .A book came out some years ago with a compilation .

I remember one ( although this isnt really regime critical )

Q :"With what countries do the USSR share a border ?"
A: "Whomever we damn please!"

Sorry for the OT.

This book could be useful to melt the ice for T2K classic campaigns when the Party come across Ivans .

There..back on topic :D

[Caradhras]

I am not sure it is a matter of what I have because of playing T2K or more because I am the kind of person to like T2K and hence have these things...if you know what I mean. Anyone being a youth in the 70s has to have been touched by the possibility of WW3.

Off the top of my head...

A yew English Longbow and bits (bracer/arrows/quiver etc)

A ghurka Kukri (the wicked knife)

An African tribal dagger.

(I dont camp or go trekking yet I have..)

Candles, Torches, Mountain jacket and boots, 3 man tent, orienteering compass. Swiss army knife I carry at all times.

There will be lots I forget, but apart from the useless (until the apocalypse!) information my pride and joy is my 200+ bottle wine collection :p

[headquarters]

I am not sure it is a matter of what I have because of playing T2K or more because I am the kind of person to like T2K and hence have these things...if you know what I mean. Anyone being a youth in the 70s has to have been touched by the possibility of WW3.

Off the top of my head...

A yew English Longbow and bits (bracer/arrows/quiver etc)

A ghurka Kukri (the wicked knife)

An African tribal dagger.

(I dont camp or go trekking yet I have..)

Candles, Torches, Mountain jacket and boots, 3 man tent, orienteering compass. Swiss army knife I carry at all times.

There will be lots I forget, but apart from the useless (until the apocalypse!) information my pride and joy is my 200+ bottle wine collection :p

200 bottles of wine ...
:D
now there is the foundation of empire right there .

imagining a world without wine or lager is pretty depressing ....

[Eddie]

I think the more accurate wording is, I have T2K because I own things like this:

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs536.snc3/30411_815639759315_9414874_45389044_6436547_n.jpg

[HorseSoldier]

I think the more accurate wording is, I have T2K because I own things like this:

What he said. I partly blame early exposure to T2K for resulting in my following a career path where I could justify purchases of things like an AR, a FAL, and an AK as reasonably legitimate business expenses.

I definitely blame T2K for the AK being a Polish Tantal (back before those were ubiquitous), and probably for why I wanted spiffy orange bakelite Russian mags for it instead of cheap Bulgarian plastic.

[Eddie]

That was just the newest one that my wife got me for my birthday. I didn't post any pictures of the rest. Let's just say I'm a true Tennesseean, though.

T2K didn't influence anything with me, it was purely a symptom. I've been this way since I was three.

[mikeo80]

I am more of a TMP plyer/GM vs. T2k. However, I have taken some steps to prepair for a catastrophe.

I am not so worried about the "Big Bang". I live about 8 miles from Fort Bragg, NC. If there was a nuclear exchange, I feel certain that Ft. Bragg would go "POOF"...and so would I...

I worry more about a breakdown of civilian authority due to a lesser occurance. I want to be able to sustain my wife and I for at least 30 days on our own.

Right now, I have enough clean water stored in the house to get us through those first 30-40 days. I also have enough canned food to accomplish the same. And I DO have hand crank can openers... :D

There are three .22 rifles with 1400 rounds and a shotgun with 400 rounds. I am not going down without a fight! :p

I also have over a gallon of clorox bleach to purify water. I figure that if the chaos lasts more than 20 days, I am up to my eyballs in s***. Digging a latrine would probably happen on day+3 or day+4.

I do have my old Boy Scout handbook for first aid instructions, camp stove with about 20-30 meals of fuel, plenty of blankets and warm clothing for cold weather. There is a battery operated radio with plenty of fresh batteries so that I can listen to the outside world. Also, candles and flashlights. We have also been able to stash some extra prescription meds that we both need.

I do not think this makes me paranoid or a survivalist...just more prepared than my neighbors...And, NO, the neighbors do NOT know about my preparations.

I figure that the best I can do in the event of an emergency is pull the door mat in, lock and load, and wait it out.

[mikeo80]

200 bottles of wine ...
:D
now there is the foundation of empire right there .

imagining a world without wine or lager is pretty depressing ....

There is something else I added to my stash. My wife works at a liquor store. We have enough "adult beverages" to stay drunk as skunks if the balloon goes up. :eek:

[pmulcahy11b]

I am not so worried about the "Big Bang". I live about 8 miles from Fort Bragg, NC. If there was a nuclear exchange, I feel certain that Ft. Bragg would go "POOF"...and so would I...

Ft. Bragg is a secondary target, and not a primary target. So you'd have about 30 minutes instead of 8...plenty of time to prepare...:(

[mikeo80]

Ft. Bragg is a secondary target, and not a primary target. So you'd have about 30 minutes instead of 8...plenty of time to prepare...:(

Oh, joy....I get to know that TEOTWAWKI is on its' way...:confused:

I guess the first symptom would be the loss of power from EMP. Then some flashes off to the west as Charlotte goes bye-bye...Flashes to the north as Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill are toasted...Might also see flash from north-west as Seymour Johnson AFB with its' F-15's becomes a target. ALso to the NW would be Camp Lejune MC base.

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc263/scottk13/DSC00652.jpg

Yup a real Dragunov, Chinese NDM-86 in 7.62x54r. Every dang character I play just has to have one. Its one of the sexiest damned rifles ever made.:D

[Mock26]

Not inspired by Twilight 2000, but I have a large collection of primitive firestarting items, such as a fire bow, flint and steel, and a fire piston. I know how to use all three of them, though I am not proficient with the fire bow.

[General Pain]

In the USSR era ,there were political and "subversive jokes " floating around -if you got questioned by someone where you had come by such material people oftened answered "Radio Yerevan" .A book came out some years ago with a compilation .

I remember one ( although this isnt really regime critical )

Q :"With what countries do the USSR share a border ?"
A: "Whomever we damn please!"

Sorry for the OT.

This book could be useful to melt the ice for T2K classic campaigns when the Party come across Ivans .

There..back on topic :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN3z3eSVG7A&feature=related

[jester]

Several modules, several of the variants, DAMN YOU LAREN AMD FRANK! Could you leave perfect well enough alone ;)

A few other books on such things, several bookmarked sites, and a makarov pistol I would have never had considered until one of my PCs ended up with one.

All other items, I picked up on my own or were left/given to me.

As for TEOTWAWKI supplies, sheesh! I still have several seabags of military gear I haven't opened in years, a couple of police gear and half a garage of scouting gear they left here when they upgraded.

Uh....anyone need a dozen or more coleman stoves? No, seriously.....I mean it ;)

[Mock26]

Several modules, several of the variants, DAMN YOU LAREN AMD FRANK! Could you leave perfect well enough alone ;)

A few other books on such things, several bookmarked sites, and a makarov pistol I would have never had considered until one of my PCs ended up with one.

All other items, I picked up on my own or were left/given to me.

As for TEOTWAWKI supplies, sheesh! I still have several seabags of military gear I haven't opened in years, a couple of police gear and half a garage of scouting gear they left here when they upgraded.

Uh....anyone need a dozen or more coleman stoves? No, seriously.....I mean it ;)

What type of coleman stoves? And what about dutch ovens?

[jester]

What type of coleman stoves? And what about dutch ovens?

The stoves are coleman two burner type which take white gas or coleman fuel. They no longer used liquid fuel, they went to propane.

As for dutch ovens, lol. I just gave a new in the box one to the neighbor, and another set of unused new in the box cast iron cookware to my cousins husband a proffessional chef.

I still have a couple used that I know off and well 1/4 of the garage stacked with boxes of assorted scout gear and about three or four "chuckwagon" boxes that fit full size and small size pickup trucks. I need to go through those as well.

Heck, I have enough to outfit my own T2K field force I think.

[Eddie]

I gave my wife a dutch oven last night. With her own gas.

[Raellus]

I gave my wife a dutch oven last night. With her own gas.

Besides being a violation of the Geneva Convention = TMI.

[Targan]

I gave my wife a dutch oven last night. With her own gas.

Oh Eddie, you ole romantic you. :D

[pmulcahy11b]

Hmmm...stuff I have because I've played T2K...Oh, I have a web site.

[headquarters]

There is something else I added to my stash. My wife works at a liquor store. We have enough "adult beverages" to stay drunk as skunks if the balloon goes up. :eek:

having a few sips to take the edge of th eend of the world sounds good..but trading the goods for services,goods and info might be good to .:D

[waiting4something]

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc263/scottk13/DSC00652.jpg

Yup a real Dragunov, Chinese NDM-86 in 7.62x54r. Every dang character I play just has to have one. Its one of the sexiest damned rifles ever made.:D

Thats cool as hell. The SVT-40 isn't bad either.

[Eddie]

Here is my mostly complete collection. I still have a few at my dad's house for when we go hunting there.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y80/edthomas/IMAG0053.jpg

[headquarters]

Thats cool as hell. The SVT-40 isn't bad either.

if you could explain Cpl.Kalkwarf : what is the accuracy like on a Dragunov .

If you use regular factory loads and if you use specific handloads ?

I would like to know.

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

if you could explain Cpl.Kalkwarf : what is the accuracy like on a Dragunov .

If you use regular factory loads and if you use specific handloads ?

I would like to know.

Depends on the ammo, with cheap light ball of various manufacture its in the 2-3 moa range, with sniper ammo or Yugo heavy ball its pretty darn accurate in the 1-2 moa, some guys say the get much better in the sub moa, but alas i do not get allot of practice. Some guys have claimed to get even in the half moa with hand loads. I Do not hand load for it yet, so I Have not done any better then the 1-2 moa range. Though I have Considered it, right now with working 15 hour days it will have to wait a bit. For a DMR or semi auto sniper its not bad and then again right now im so out of practice that I am very happy with the 1-2 moa. This weekend I was going to go to the Old Hornady range and sight in the new 8x scope i got for it, but the dicks at work decided they want to work sat and sun. :mad:

[headquarters]

Depends on the ammo, with cheap light ball of various manufacture its in the 2-3 moa range, with sniper ammo or Yugo heavy ball its pretty darn accurate in the 1-2 moa, some guys say the get much better in the sub moa, but alas i do not get allot of practice. Some guys have claimed to get even in the half moa with hand loads. I Do not hand load for it yet, so I Have not done any better then the 1-2 moa range. Though I have Considered it, right now with working 15 hour days it will have to wait a bit. For a DMR or semi auto sniper its not bad and then again right now im so out of practice that I am very happy with the 1-2 moa. This weekend I was going to go to the Old Hornady range and sight in the new 8x scope i got for it, but the dicks at work decided they want to work sat and sun. :mad:

Good .

Thanks.

I would be well pleased with 1 MOA too.

Getting a new .308 / 7,62x51 soonish . Considering a semi auto over a bolt action .

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

Good .

Thanks.

I would be well pleased with 1 MOA too.

Getting a new .308 / 7,62x51 soonish . Considering a semi auto over a bolt action .

The advantage, should you need it with a semi auto is that you can get a Quicker followup or second shot should you need it. And often in today's modern combat of a DMR it can be a life saver.

I'm kinda partial to the old bolt guns myself, my Remington 700P shoots a constant 1/2 moa with factory match ammo when I do my part. It likes the Remington Premier Match 168gr. Matchking BTHP load. ( I really need to get out and get back in the groove).

What semi auto platform are you thinking? Some of the AR 308s have been getting pretty good results. I have no experience with the FAL or G3. I do have some with the M1a (civ M14). I would love to be able to find/afford the Valmet AK in 308. http://bwfirearms.com/GunPics/valmet78.JPG

[headquarters]

due to regulations we are only allowed to choose from a limited array of semi autos for sport and hunting .

The list has a few interesting ones - the Vepr,the Remington 750,the Browning BAR ( not M1918) ,the Valmet Petra,HK 2000,Sauer 303.A few more too.

I want something stainless/or coated ,synthetic,accurate and with a "silencer/moderator" that I can take into the woods in a torrential rain and just shake the water off and put straight into the safe when I get home .
I want a can on it so that I can hunt and shoot places were I otherwise cant ,and its more comfy.I will accept up to ,but no poorer accuracy than 2 moa . Also it shouldnt look to combat -some of the farmers around here dont think much of guys with combat kit -and I need my contacts intact to get to use their lands.

The Dragunov is super sweet ,but sadly the Izmash model offerd here is available only in the sports category and not the hunting list in our PD bylaws.I cant be bothered to jump through all the hoops required to qualify to get it - I just dont have the time these days.I couldnt even use it for hunting -only sports shooting .The rules are annoying and seem meaningless-but we have to have AND adhere to the gun laws .They should just be different is all.

As for ,ahem,non-sporting or hunting related needs for semiauto longarms I have covered that base with a few well known sporterized articles that are widespread and that trace their origins back to a piece of kit called the M1 Garand as well as my service weapon.One day though...If I get my way.....I will have all I ever wanted in terms of iron....

[Mock26]

Here is my mostly complete collection. I still have a few at my dad's house for when we go hunting there.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y80/edthomas/IMAG0053.jpg

No offense, but I disapprove of that collection. No muzzleloaders!

:D

[Eddie]

No offense, but I disapprove of that collection. No muzzleloaders!

:D

I have two at my dad's house!

[Mock26]

I have two at my dad's house!

I imagine that muzzleloaders would be somewhat in demand in the Twilight 2000/2013 universe. They would be completely inappropriate for combat but would make for a good hunting weapon, especially for people without access to either reloading equipment and/or smokeless powder or the ability to make smokeless powder.

[Abbott Shaull]

Muzzleloader may seem inappropriate, but you know if you were militia that had 50 or so men with 10 or so rifles/shotguns with other assort pistols and smg, well the muzzleloaders wouldn't look like such a bad option.

[waiting4something]

1177

1178

1179

The only thing I can really say I bought because of Twilight, is the M16 drum that is on the cover of the original first edition book.

[jester]

But its an A1....sheesh!:D

[headquarters]

I guess its better to have one and not need it than to not have one and need it .

I think I would think twice about trying to stab somebody armed with a .80 cal blunderbuss loaded with bits of metal if I wanted to do some maurauding and had my spiked leather on and my evil looking melee weapons .But if compared to combat against someone armed with a centerfire weapon it is of course inappropriate .But considering ammo situation a few years down the line ..

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

But its an A1....sheesh!:D

That is not an AR-15A1, that is an AR-15. The A1 would have a forward assist and some other minor details like more raised ridges around the mag release.

[waiting4something]

Yeah I, know it's not a A1 like on the cover of the first edition.:o It's more just like the Air Force 604 version. I had to get the lower from No Dak Spud to make it more correct. They had all the different styles like the slab sides, E1( which is this one), A1's, and A2's. I like some of the old school style stuff so that is why I have this. I get sick of the same old rail AR guns that are all over the place. I mean options are cool, but do I really need all that junk on my gun? Plus you can't believe how much lighter a plain AR-15 is. This one is lighter then my carbines.
But hey the drum is the focus here. I was just using the rifle for display with the drum. I really don't know shit about the drum, and I have not tried it out yet. Its a pump and dump style loader like some AK-47 drums and I believe it holds 75 rounds. More then likely it will suck, but I had to have it from always being curious about it from the Twilight 2000 cover.

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

Wished I had one or two of those drums.

[Mock26]

While not something that I actually have it was Twilight 2000 that fired up my fascination for all things bullpup.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Mock26/Fark2/image002.jpg

[jester]

While not something that I actually have it was Twilight 2000 that fired up my fascination for all things bullpup.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Mock26/Fark2/image002.jpg

What is that? It is bolt and bulpup but it also has a coolness factor....its...itrs like a train wreck, horrible and yet I can't take my eyes off. I..... muuuust..... have one....what is it?

[mikeo80]

Good .

Thanks.

I would be well pleased with 1 MOA too.

Getting a new .308 / 7,62x51 soonish . Considering a semi auto over a bolt action .

Stupid question time from a stupid civilian...What is MOA?

[pmulcahy11b]

Stupid question time from a stupid civilian...What is MOA?

MOA - Minute of an Angle or Minute of an Arc. If you divide a circle into 360 parts, you get a Minute of an Angle (1 degree each). It's about a meter wide at 1000 meters. If your rifle has a 1 MOA capability, it can be theoretically expected (in the hands of a competent marksman) to place its rounds consistently within a meter-wide circle at 1000 meters range. Naturally, the rifle used, the shooter's skill, his sighting aids or scope, and the ammunition quality all affect this.

[headquarters]

Stupid question time from a stupid civilian...What is MOA?

The lower the MOA the better the accuracy .
Roughly said: 1 inch spreading in a group of shots at 100 yards equals 1 moa.
2 inches is 2 moa etc .

sub moa ( 0,5 moa etc ) is very desireable because then you have a really accurate gun .But in the real world 1 moa is still darn good and 2-3 moa is decent ..

all in my humble opinion of course

[mikeo80]

MOA - Minute of an Angle or Minute of an Arc. If you divide a circle into 360 parts, you get a Minute of an Angle (1 degree each). It's about a meter wide at 1000 meters. If your rifle has a 1 MOA capability, it can be theoretically expected (in the hands of a competent marksman) to place its rounds consistently within a meter-wide circle at 1000 meters range. Naturally, the rifle used, the shooter's skill, his sighting aids or scope, and the ammunition quality all affect this.

Thank you for that explanation! I don't have any guns that can reach 1000 meters. .22 is the best I've got.

[mikeo80]

The lower the MOA the better the accuracy .
Roughly said: 1 inch spreading in a group of shots at 100 yards equals 1 moa.
2 inches is 2 moa etc .

sub moa ( 0,5 moa etc ) is very desireable because then you have a really accurate gun .But in the real world 1 moa is still darn good and 2-3 moa is decent ..

all in my humble opinion of course

Thank you for that example. That means with my .22's getting a one 1/2 to two inch grouping at 100 yards is pretty decent. I can do that on a consistant basis, I've got them sighted in well. Now if I can only get the shooter to do better....:D

[Mock26]

What is that? It is bolt and bulpup but it also has a coolness factor....its...itrs like a train wreck, horrible and yet I can't take my eyes off. I..... muuuust..... have one....what is it?


http://www.acme-firearms.com.au/Keppeler/Keppeler%20Bullpup%20Hunter%20Rifle.htm

And check out this strange one from Germany:

http://www.waffen-greger.de/index.htm

[pmulcahy11b]

Need more stuff on them! Must stat them out! It's a compulsion...

[headquarters]

Ordered this rifle a few days ago.waiting for paperwork to come through .

Cut the barrel to around 50cm and added an A-Tac maxim can on it .
Putting Leuopld QR rings and bases on it and a Nikon 2,5-10x56 iluuminated scope with the #4 reticle .

have 3000 .308 surplus rounds for practice and because I play T2k :) .

Cant wait to see what kind of accuracy I can get.

[Mohoender]

I recently made some food reserves (about a full month of food and water for four), got a small camping type cooker and open the well again (it's plenty of water). I also increased my wood reserve, doubling it just in case.

All of it make me think of T2K, of course but, in fact, it has nothing to do with it. Every winter, power gets down and you never know how much time it can remain down.

Then, an old friend of us, visiting lately, advised us to do so. She had lived through Mai 1968 and she fears that it might come again (with communities cut from everything for weeks). Currently, I think that to be fairly plausible.

[Graebarde]

What do I have because I've played T2K since '87? Loads of maps of Poland and Eastern Europe; Polish-English dictionary; Polish travel guides; Living contacts in Poland; Books on the history of Poland; a desire to visit the country (which probably will never happen but.......)

[Mohoender]

What do I have because I've played T2K since '87? Loads of maps of Poland and Eastern Europe; Polish-English dictionary; Polish travel guides; Living contacts in Poland; Books on the history of Poland; a desire to visit the country (which probably will never happen but.......)

You should, it's a very nice country with very nice people.

[mikeo80]

Then, an old friend of us, visiting lately, advised us to do so. She had lived through Mai 1968 and she fears that it might come again (with communities cut from everything for weeks). Currently, I think that to be fairly plausible.

What happened to you friend in 1968? Granted, I was fifteen at the time, but I do not remember anything drastic happening.

[pmulcahy11b]

What happened to you friend in 1968? Granted, I was fifteen at the time, but I do not remember anything drastic happening.

Was she in Czechoslovakia?

[Targan]

Ordered this rifle a few days ago.waiting for paperwork to come through .

Cut the barrel to around 50cm and added an A-Tac maxim can on it .
Putting Leuopld QR rings and bases on it and a Nikon 2,5-10x56 iluuminated scope with the #4 reticle .

Very nice HQ, very nice.

[weswood]

. I do have some with the M1a (civ M14). I would love to be able to find/afford the Valmet AK in 308. http://bwfirearms.com/GunPics/valmet78.JPG

What do you think of the M1A? I've been thinking of getting one for about a year, but the money has been scarce. Then my favorite aunt died last month and left me a little cash (and yes, she was my favorite before she died, as long as I can remember in fact).

On the subject of muzzle loaders, my first real rifle was a CVA .45 Kentucky rifle. My father put it together, turned out beautiful. I think I was 12 at the time. Tall as I was, and I had to brace the barrel to shoot it, couldn't hold it up. We put a set of adjustable sights on it. I hunted with it until I gave up hunting. It still holds #1 position in the gun cabinet, #2 being Pop's shotgun that's been in the family longer than I have.

I can remember the 1st time he took me hunting, I was about 5. He had to tie me to his back like a backpack to climb into the tree stand, then went back down for the shotgun.

[Mohoender]

What happened to you friend in 1968? Granted, I was fifteen at the time, but I do not remember anything drastic happening.

I wasn't born but France came on the verge of revolution in Mai 1968 (at least apparently). De Gaulle remained silent for three weeks. Colleges were occupied by students and a general strike started. Army units took position in the woods of Paris but officers in charge made clear that they would refuse to march on the citizens. At a point, Students faced the CRS almost daily with roadblocks all over Paris. Shops ended empty and power was down several time... My friend, as many french people simply experienced huge difficulties when it came to simply buy food.

Nobody can say what might happen but the current situation might well bring us to that. France will go on strike on september 7. My wife will be on strike for the first time in 7 years and for the first time I advise her to do so. Sincirely, I would like to see 20 million frenchmen and women in the street (for the first time in 40 years, I'm thinking about joining the protesters). Fifteen years ago, my US teacher in politics explained our class that, in his opinion, France was increasingly similar to that of 1789 (French Revolution). I wouldn't be surprised if he is proved right.;)

[Mohoender]

Was she in Czechoslovakia?

Everything wasn't happening in Czechoslovakia. Don't take it wrong, however, Paul. French don't know shit on what happens in US and your question is logical. At the time, US was more concerned with what was happening behind the Iron Curtain. And that was much more important.

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that US officials kept an eye on Paris. Students and workers were protesting under red flags with their heroes being Mao Zedong and Che Guevara. What is interesting is one thesis on the subject. Evidences seem to point out that Moscow could have supported the french government against the protesters. In fact, that could make sense, US would have not tolerated a soviet take over of France.

[jester]

Well 68 was a very interesting year.

The French Affair,

Tet in Vietnam which struck a real blow to the North, but it also signaled the end for the US as a result of the media and their spin.

Czech Uprising

Then, we had assorted Race Riots in the US as well.

What else happened in other parts of the world?

Interesting idea if we tied all of those events together for an alternate timeline campaign.


Race Riots in the US, who are supported by Communist organizations.

Indo China, Tet, and maybe other activites in and around Indo China. Maybe even China makes an overt move.

France going into Revolution Supported by the Russians

Greece deals with FARC, <is Farc the Communist group there?>

Berlin gets isolated and the Russians move divisions in to posture.

The Czech Uprising, but it gets more support.

Africa and its proxy bushfire wars.

All blow up into a Twilight 1968!

[jester]

What do you think of the M1A? I've been thinking of getting one for about a year, but the money has been scarce. Then my favorite aunt died last month and left me a little cash (and yes, she was my favorite before she died, as long as I can remember in fact).

On the subject of muzzle loaders, my first real rifle was a CVA .45 Kentucky rifle. My father put it together, turned out beautiful. I think I was 12 at the time. Tall as I was, and I had to brace the barrel to shoot it, couldn't hold it up. We put a set of adjustable sights on it. I hunted with it until I gave up hunting. It still holds #1 position in the gun cabinet, #2 being Pop's shotgun that's been in the family longer than I have.

I can remember the 1st time he took me hunting, I was about 5. He had to tie me to his back like a backpack to climb into the tree stand, then went back down for the shotgun.




You and me both! I just got a years worth of back pay from the V.A. for my disability. An unexpected winfall. And I have been looking at them and pricing them myself.

The local gunstore has a SOCOM II, a bit front heavy, but that will keep recoil and muzzle rise down.

I used to shoot a freinds standard GI model all the time. It fit nicely, felt good and was deadly accurate!

The question is, what variant to get?

Are you looking at:

Standard, Match, National Match, Scout, Socom 16, Socom II?

Then we have the barrel type and furniture to consider. Of course there are also triggers, sights and flashsuppresors and compensators.

For me, I am debating between the Socom 16 and the Match Variant with black synthetic furniture and a chrome barrel, with a national match sight and California Legal Compensator.

They are very cool with lots of accessories availavble! And you can use them for pliinking <if you can afford the ammo> as well as competion and just general shooting! A true piece of working art!

[headquarters]

You should, it's a very nice country with very nice people.

And not very expensive -provided you dont eat and live in the "tourist traps ".

I recommend Warszaw as an interesting city .Krakow is also good.
Poland has alot of nice nature and the Baltic coast in summer is supposedly very nice .
People there are a good sort -hard working most of them ,and quite welcoming .

[headquarters]

Very nice HQ, very nice.

I am like the proverbial kid in a candy store -exited.

[Mohoender]

France going into Revolution Supported by the Russians



I like all your ideas as always but I would have the French revolution supported by China instead. I like the idea of having the Russian supporting the French government. It would add to the general confusion and would place everyone in a tricky situation that could not have occured in the late 80's (don't forget Albania is a Chinese ally).

May be you can also add an early Portuguese uprising with communists taking advantage of the messy situation around.

Nuclear destruction would probably ne less important than in regular T2K but chemical and biological weapons will be more widely used.

[jester]

Mo, you are evil! Doing more to confuse the storey. I love it!

Oh, how about we add a uprising with Franco's Spain. They drop into another civil war. Hmmm, didn't the US have a "BROKEN ARROW" that year too? <Broken Arrow, a lost nuclear weapon> That causes issues with the US and local population.

There is general unrest with the regime. The King is being supported to comeback. And of course the Communist insurgents. And lets toss in some Nazis supporting Franco too. That would be a big mess with parties trying to figure out who is who. Nothing like a 4 or 5 way Civil War to keep the PCs on their toes.

OH WOW!!!!

Didn't the Pueblo Incident occur in 68 as well? So, we can add a flashpoint in Korea too.

[weswood]

You and me both! I just got a years worth of back pay from the V.A. for my disability. An unexpected winfall. And I have been looking at them and pricing them myself.

The local gunstore has a SOCOM II, a bit front heavy, but that will keep recoil and muzzle rise down.

I used to shoot a freinds standard GI model all the time. It fit nicely, felt good and was deadly accurate!

The question is, what variant to get?

Are you looking at:

Standard, Match, National Match, Scout, Socom 16, Socom II?

Then we have the barrel type and furniture to consider. Of course there are also triggers, sights and flashsuppresors and compensators.

For me, I am debating between the Socom 16 and the Match Variant with black synthetic furniture and a chrome barrel, with a national match sight and California Legal Compensator.

They are very cool with lots of accessories availavble! And you can use them for pliinking <if you can afford the ammo> as well as competion and just general shooting! A true piece of working art!

I like the Standard version. I'm a simple kind of guy. I'm considering that or an AR15, the M4 version with the colapsable buttstock. I've never fired the M4, and have never been real fond of the M16 series, but I like that collapsable stock so I can teach my daughter to shoot. That and there's several boxes of .223 at my aunt's house I may be able to con my cousin out of. She gave me 4 boxes of .380 last year when i griped I couldn't find any in the stores.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Well 68 was a very interesting year.


You forgot the start of the events leading up to troops being deployed here in Northern Ireland. This tied down a sizeable proportion of the British Army, and also there were rumours of Russian aproaches to support the ROI in forcefully retaking the North so that Ireland could become a kind of European Cuba. Apparently the US also hinted that to stop this they would offer some form of overseas dependancy to Ireland to block the Russians. Obviously it never came to anything, but it could have.....

[pmulcahy11b]

Everything wasn't happening in Czechoslovakia. Don't take it wrong, however, Paul. French don't know shit on what happens in US and your question is logical. At the time, US was more concerned with what was happening behind the Iron Curtain. And that was much more important.

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that US officials kept an eye on Paris. Students and workers were protesting under red flags with their heroes being Mao Zedong and Che Guevara. What is interesting is one thesis on the subject. Evidences seem to point out that Moscow could have supported the french government against the protesters. In fact, that could make sense, US would have not tolerated a soviet take over of France.

I take no offense. Most Americans don't even know what happened in Czechoslovakia in 1968 -- as a country, we're remarkably ignorant about anything beyond the price of eggs. But you've prompted me to look up the events in France in 1968, so you've furthered my education. And, wow.

As an aside, I remember a few years ago making a reference to my nephew about Vietnam. He had no idea what or where Vietnam was, let alone what happened there. What the hell did they teach him in school?

[Mohoender]

Paul, French are equally ignorant about USA. The main diference is that the French are usually convinced they know.:D History is too vast a subject to know more than a slim peace of it. That's one of the thing I like about this forum, I keep learning plenty of things and people are not shy when it come to correct someone else.

Lately, two friends of mine were complaining about how ignorant americans are when it comes to Geography. I played a little game with them.

I asked where Guinea is: they answered Asia.:)
Then, I asked them where is Timmbuktu: they answered India/Nepal.;)
Finally, I asked where Uruguay is: They answered that it was land locked in the middle of South America. At least they had the continent right.:D

[jester]

I like the Standard version. I'm a simple kind of guy. I'm considering that or an AR15, the M4 version with the colapsable buttstock. I've never fired the M4, and have never been real fond of the M16 series, but I like that collapsable stock so I can teach my daughter to shoot. That and there's several boxes of .223 at my aunt's house I may be able to con my cousin out of. She gave me 4 boxes of .380 last year when i griped I couldn't find any in the stores.

Nice! I have been looking at some of the new shorty uppers to go with a lower I bought a couple years ago. One has a barrel that look like a SAW with the new rail system. It look total bad @$$.

The down side, being this is The Peoples Democratic Repulik of Kalifornia, no adjustable stocks, no flash suppressors, threated barrels to accep a suppressor, only pinned compensators :(

So, my intention of the lower will be a compesition stock with intergral cheek rest, with the adjustment for length and height. Match trigger assembly, 24 inch fluted stainless barrel, Hogue free floating tube foregrip, flattop upper, I am thinking low ride fixed sights extra thing front blade, and rear super match sights.

Anyhow, that is my project rifle.

Still need to figure if I want to drop the 1500 to 2000 for the Springfield, downside, at the gunshop they are WAAAY overpriced, and they have no idea when they will be able to order from Springfield, they just aren't taking orders ;(

I am also toying with the idea of a good bolt gun, I'd love a Styer SSG 69 but they don't come in Left Hand.

Maybe a tricked out Remiington 700, or maybe something by Robar in .308......OH WAIT!!!! The AR's in .308 are available now too! And alot are going for slightly more than a traditional brand name AR!

HQ, you've got a couple of us going now. See what you've started!

[Mohoender]

Oh, how about we add a uprising with Franco's Spain.

I like that idea too. No!! I'm not evil, the world is.:saevil2:

Just a small rumor (take it as such, I can't justify this). In 1974-5, during the Portuguese Revolution, US didn't intervene while communist attempted to take over. As a result, Angola fell to the communists and Portugal was ruled by communist for about a year.

Someone told me that US non-intervention resulted from a secret agreement between Washington and Moscow. Moscow was allowed to move on if Cabinda's oil was to fall under US control.

This is a rumor and nobody will confirm it. Moreover, 35 years later, nobody can have access to Salazar's archives. All of them were transfered to Moscow and remain their to our days.

[jester]

I never heard of that one.

[Mohoender]

I never heard of that one.

Nobody has. I told you, it's a rumor, a product of my imagination.;)

[headquarters]

Nice! I have been looking at some of the new shorty uppers to go with a lower I bought a couple years ago. One has a barrel that look like a SAW with the new rail system. It look total bad @$$.

The down side, being this is The Peoples Democratic Repulik of Kalifornia, no adjustable stocks, no flash suppressors, threated barrels to accep a suppressor, only pinned compensators :(

So, my intention of the lower will be a compesition stock with intergral cheek rest, with the adjustment for length and height. Match trigger assembly, 24 inch fluted stainless barrel, Hogue free floating tube foregrip, flattop upper, I am thinking low ride fixed sights extra thing front blade, and rear super match sights.

Anyhow, that is my project rifle.

Still need to figure if I want to drop the 1500 to 2000 for the Springfield, downside, at the gunshop they are WAAAY overpriced, and they have no idea when they will be able to order from Springfield, they just aren't taking orders ;(

I am also toying with the idea of a good bolt gun, I'd love a Styer SSG 69 but they don't come in Left Hand.

Maybe a tricked out Remiington 700, or maybe something by Robar in .308......OH WAIT!!!! The AR's in .308 are available now too! And alot are going for slightly more than a traditional brand name AR!

HQ, you've got a couple of us going now. See what you've started!

I read your deliberations about what gun to get with interest as it is a question I have wrestled with many times myself.Your intended use of the gun being the primary issue.
Is it hunting,plinking,serious target practice,for use as a potential combat gun or indeed several or all of the above ?Some guns are just cool as sh** and you need one just to have it -another factor to be considered.

Next consider your caliber preferances.Both ballistics,percieved recoil and ammo price and availability should be considered.The rifles you mention are admirable weapons indeed.


I have a few suggestions of my own -if I may.

What do you guys recon about the AR-10 rifles in .308 ?Or .243?
I say they are looking pretty good and probably shot better than most of us straight out of the box..1-2 MOA with decent ammo..

http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=10A4F-2

Also the FNAR looks pretty awesome and even more accurate than the AR:

http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/family.asp?fid=FNF049&gid=FNG022


Last but not least -the good ole Browning BAR ( not the squad weapon ).
Its reliable,it is proven,it has decent accuracy ,it works as a hunting rifle still you can get 4,6,10 and even 20 round mags for it and use it in anger.(Hypotethically!!! ) EDIT : Max mag capacity is between 2 and 6 rounds depending on capacity .FNAR is the same action more or less but with possible hi-cap.Sorry about the technical mistake.Thanks for letting it slide Paul :)
It comes in various calibers too.

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/family.asp?webflag_=002B

I just gotta say -the whole CALI "no pistol grip" kinda ruins most if not all "military type" rifles for me.The legal configuration is ugly imho.Better to get something designed for a thumbholestock or the older integrated pistolgrip stock like the M1A and similar .THere is the bullet button loop hole though ,it sounds a bit of a pain but at least you get a classic look to your rifle -like these

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct780.aspx

These are just the .308s I am thinking of.If you want to talk .223 or Rem 6,8SPC or even the venerable 7,62x39 there are loads more to consider.

Not to mention if you want to discuss bolt action rifles...
Maybe a gun thread should be started ..

[weswood]

HQ, my intended purpose is mostly plinking.

I'm leaning towards the AR15 for that reason. Cheaper ammo, parts availability, surplus parts & ammo. Plus I want to teach my daughter rifle shooting, she's 9 years old and petite for her age, so a collapsible stock is a must.

But on the other hand, I got rid of my deer rifles. After my father died, I pretty much lost interest in hunting. I don't know if it's stress or upbringing, but I'm getting the urge to go hunting. I'm not fond of the idea of hunting deer with a .223. I know if it will kill a man, it will kill a deer, but I've read cases of the bullet going through people and not even slowing down, the target stood there and kept shooting back. I'm a firm believer in one shot, one kill. Specially with animals. As I said above, my 1st hunting rifle was a muzzle loader, and my 1st shotgun was a break action single 20. No quick follow up shots with either.

So I'm also leaning towards the M1 .308.

Plus there's the wife factor. "You spent HOW much on that!" Even though weapons are a little cheaper here in Texas than in Cali. (Jester, for some reason I thought you lived near Houston.) I haven't priced any since last year, but I think I remember the Springfield going for around $1300, and I can get an AR15 for $1000. Maybe less if I can find a used one.

[weswood]

I wonder about the title to this thread. "Stuff you have because you've played Twilight 2000". I think in some cases I've played RPGs becuase the stuff I've had.

I've always been interested in weapons of all types , except the Star Wars lasers and whatnot. I've only been really into Dudgeons & Dragons and Twilight 2000. I started with D&D when I was 13 or 14, and when T2K came out, I was already in the Marine Corps.

[jester]

Wes, nope, in Cali, for another year or two then I am bailing to somewhere in Free America.

As for inexpensive ARs, I have seen many for under 900, and in the "Free States" they are not that uncommon.

HQ; I HATE YOU! I forgot about that website. I was almost drooling over some of the things there. The .50's even though they were bolt action and single shots were a bit expensive but within my capability, hey, $3,000 for a .50 is cheap! Danged Governator! Another reason to hate him, not only did he cut my pay, then lay me off, he banned .50s. I hope his hummers runflats fall apart!

And the semi auto M1919 Browning, both under $2,000! What would be awesome wuld be the variant with the bipod and shoulder stock.

I did see the Dragonov at J&G's website today and was thinking about it. But, alas, California legal. Forget it! Wait until I move.

However, the M1A1/M14 variants in the Scout or SOCOM 16 models are starting to take the lead or an AR variant in .308. <The ARs are legal here in their normal configuration with what they call a "Gorrilla Grip" which is a wedge looking grip that fits flush with the rear buttstock of ARs. A simple temporar solution, which is easily changed rather than the pinned magazines, o bullet variants for ARs. I had some very irriating people with them when I went to the range on Sunday. They sprayed alot of ammo, but didn't shoot past 25m. So sad. I was the only one shooting the max distance of the range, a whopping 300m.>

Worse case scenario, I can call a freind front him the funds to purchase the items and hold them for me until I do relocate and just transfer them over then. I have a source for HK 91 and 93s that are pretty sweet! And both for under $1000.

As for me, eh, got enough rifles for hunting. I will never give up my 30-40 Krag for what we have around here. Light recoil, easy action, pretty accurate for a weapon over a century old that had been chopped sometime in the 20s or 30s. And I have a large supply of ammo!

For larger game or longer ranges, eh, my .300 Win Mag is good enough.

I am thinking something for accuracy and range, as I am in persuit of "the ultimate shot." And general accurate plinking, and showing off at the range when people are just wasting lead under 50m.


As for gamming,

What arms would be the most common in your area, or specific areas for PCs to encounter?

[headquarters]

I would get the .308 for hunting for sure.I want a M1A ,but alas , they are not allowed here as they are not on the approved list...

But the .223 is a clever little round too.Especially when teaching someone to shoot after they have been initiated with a .22 - the .223 is a good beginners round.It can be hunted with ,as long as the game is of a medium to smallish size .for deer it would be illegal here ( what we call deer gets to around 150-200 KG tops here,most in the 75 KG range ).
Some here use it for hare,beaver,fox ,and the smallest bovine game we have here.

I just find the .308 more versatile.It can do anything up to and including moose which is pretty much the biggest game here .( Around 500 KG ).

Best of luck in finding a new rifle to all !

:D



HQ, my intended purpose is mostly plinking.

I'm leaning towards the AR15 for that reason. Cheaper ammo, parts availability, surplus parts & ammo. Plus I want to teach my daughter rifle shooting, she's 9 years old and petite for her age, so a collapsible stock is a must.

But on the other hand, I got rid of my deer rifles. After my father died, I pretty much lost interest in hunting. I don't know if it's stress or upbringing, but I'm getting the urge to go hunting. I'm not fond of the idea of hunting deer with a .223. I know if it will kill a man, it will kill a deer, but I've read cases of the bullet going through people and not even slowing down, the target stood there and kept shooting back. I'm a firm believer in one shot, one kill. Specially with animals. As I said above, my 1st hunting rifle was a muzzle loader, and my 1st shotgun was a break action single 20. No quick follow up shots with either.

So I'm also leaning towards the M1 .308.

Plus there's the wife factor. "You spent HOW much on that!" Even though weapons are a little cheaper here in Texas than in Cali. (Jester, for some reason I thought you lived near Houston.) I haven't priced any since last year, but I think I remember the Springfield going for around $1300, and I can get an AR15 for $1000. Maybe less if I can find a used one.

[headquarters]

As for me, eh, got enough rifles for hunting. I will never give up my 30-40 Krag for what we have around here. Light recoil, easy action, pretty accurate for a weapon over a century old that had been chopped sometime in the 20s or 30s. And I have a large supply of ammo!



Good,classical Norwegian rifle that .

We are quite proud of its history up here .

I have a Norwegian one on its way ( or so my father in law says ) ,and hopefully I will get to shoot it sometime this winter .

It is a 1920s standard infantry version , so it cannot take the hottest new hunting ammo I have been told.

[waiting4something]

Jester get your buddy to get the guns for you. Don't buy any of that Cali crap. That shit is offensive! Talk about a brown stain. But if you must get one, get the M1A since its not competely trashed. Once you leave the red state, you can get a real flash suppressor for it and the normal capacity mags. Or, just stick to bolts action rifles until you pack up and leave. Don't degrade yourself with the Cali AR's. That is just wrong! I mean what is the purpose of that gun? To make you dead or look stupid? Man screw the reds.

[headquarters]

Jester get your buddy to get the guns for you. Don't buy any of that Cali crap. That shit is offensive! Talk about a brown stain. But if you must get one, get the M1A since its not competely trashed. Once you leave the red state, you can get a real flash suppressor for it and the normal capacity mags. Or, just stick to bolts action rifles until you pack up and leave. Don't degrade yourself with the Cali AR's. That is just wrong! I mean what is the purpose of that gun? To make you dead or look stupid? Man screw the reds.

Although I fully symphatize with your aversion towards the look and functionality of the "California legal" assault rifles (monsterman grips etc ), I must however ask you to please turn down the political commentary such as your last sentence there .

Voicing your opinion is encouraged here .Keeping it civil is required.

thanks.

[waiting4something]

Oh yeah Jester one more thing. Heads up on the hk-93 clones. The magazines are scarce and cost you a butt load. The 40 round aluminium mags are to big for prone shooting and are kid of wimpy built. The 30 and 25 rounders are steel and solid, but more scarce and ruin about 70 bucks a pop. The hk-91 magazines no big deal. They are everywhere and cheap steel or aluminium. Now extra parts for hk's are starting to get real pricey. Parts are not as plentiful as they used to be. Some clones have a lot of probelms too, so people put real hk parts in there guns to replace that non hk garbage so they work. Just make sure you do your research on what clones suck and what ones work. I'm assuming you meant clones, because most real hk 91/93 cost between $2-$3000.

[waiting4something]

Although I fully symphatize with your aversion towards the look and functionality of the "California legal" assault rifles (monsterman grips etc ), I must however ask you to please turn down the political commentary such as your last sentence there .

Voicing your opinion is encouraged here .Keeping it civil is required.

thanks.

Oh ok. Very well.

[jester]

Waiting:

I won't argue with you on any of your sentiment of one of the big five red states. I worked on the inside. Its a sinking ship. And the ships officers are ignoring the holes below the waterline. Hell, they are opening them even more with jackhammers and blow torches! And that explains my whole experience working for state gov! Glad I got laid off! Just not thrilled with the hatchet job they pulled. But, lol, now this month minimuim wage and everyone gets three furlough days again, lovely!

Sorry for the rant. Hmmm, this could be a point for T2K, how states left to their own devises go down the toilet bowl and add to the totla anarchy.

Or, leadership that hides reality and is so delusional you just stop and wonder.

As for weaponry, yes, they are clones, I know of four places out of state who do clones. And IF I were to go that route. I would front my bro even though he was with 3/7 <7th Marines is rampant with homo sexuals you know :p >And when I move, we transfer the items over.


As for purchasing stuff here. Cali Leader M1A1 or varaint <Scout, SOCOM or Match> the compensator is no big deal! Hell, if it works better than the original then even better!

As for the AR class. I put on the "Gorilla Grip" or "Monster Grip" I can have a normal AR, the grip is just different. And that is nothing more than a long screw and some washers. Personaly I like the A2 grip because of the way I shoot, the finger groove is a reference point for where I hold it and place my finger on the trigger. But, eh, I can put up with the "Monster/Gorilla Grip" for another year or two then swap it out for a Hogue grip, its alot easier than the compensator.

And no, no way in hell would I buy one of those cool looking phoney black rifles that have the pinned magazine where you have to break the rifle down shotgun style and load! Two words come to mind, "Screw" and "That!" If such were the case, then I would go with something else, in bolt, or a cool shotgun, or something.


Now, weapons in relation to T2K,

Would weapons bans and restrictions be that great in the years leading up to the T2K events? Or shortly thereafter?

I can understand it occuring in refugee camps. But, the general population without ay reloactions going on.

[headquarters]

I agree on the "phoney AR/top break loading AR " sentiment .

Its hard to GET a gun here,and it has to be off an official list ,but at least there are few restrictions on it after .Minimum barrel length 16" and no full auto is pretty much it on a EBR :) 30 round mags no problem etc .But everything is expensive here .A mag easily runs at 50-300 US dollars -even aftermarket ones.

About Govs imposing gun bans etc in T2K - it would depend ?Up here in Norway ,close to Russia I guess general arming of teh populace would be more likely.In the T2K scenario most Norwegian males will have doen conscription and many women too.The rest would be drafted as pr operational needs.

I see everything from Krag-Jørgensens,Mauser K98,M1 Garands, and a phletora of SMGs,Carbines,pistols etc that we have stocpiled over the years being issued to homeguard units and eventually front line troops as the war wears on.

Somewhere else the exact opposite may be taking place ,with the Gov disarming everyone in preparation for their "impending liberation"....



Waiting:

I won't argue with you on any of your sentiment of one of the big five red states. I worked on the inside. Its a sinking ship. And the ships officers are ignoring the holes below the waterline. Hell, they are opening them even more with jackhammers and blow torches! And that explains my whole experience working for state gov! Glad I got laid off! Just not thrilled with the hatchet job they pulled. But, lol, now this month minimuim wage and everyone gets three furlough days again, lovely!

Sorry for the rant. Hmmm, this could be a point for T2K, how states left to their own devises go down the toilet bowl and add to the totla anarchy.

Or, leadership that hides reality and is so delusional you just stop and wonder.

As for weaponry, yes, they are clones, I know of four places out of state who do clones. And IF I were to go that route. I would front my bro even though he was with 3/7 <7th Marines is rampant with homo sexuals you know :p >And when I move, we transfer the items over.


As for purchasing stuff here. Cali Leader M1A1 or varaint <Scout, SOCOM or Match> the compensator is no big deal! Hell, if it works better than the original then even better!

As for the AR class. I put on the "Gorilla Grip" or "Monster Grip" I can have a normal AR, the grip is just different. And that is nothing more than a long screw and some washers. Personaly I like the A2 grip because of the way I shoot, the finger groove is a reference point for where I hold it and place my finger on the trigger. But, eh, I can put up with the "Monster/Gorilla Grip" for another year or two then swap it out for a Hogue grip, its alot easier than the compensator.

And no, no way in hell would I buy one of those cool looking phoney black rifles that have the pinned magazine where you have to break the rifle down shotgun style and load! Two words come to mind, "Screw" and "That!" If such were the case, then I would go with something else, in bolt, or a cool shotgun, or something.


Now, weapons in relation to T2K,

Would weapons bans and restrictions be that great in the years leading up to the T2K events? Or shortly thereafter?

I can understand it occuring in refugee camps. But, the general population without ay reloactions going on.

[pmulcahy11b]

I see everything from Krag-Jørgensens,Mauser K98,M1 Garands, and a phletora of SMGs,Carbines,pistols etc that we have stocpiled over the years being issued to homeguard units and eventually front line troops as the war wears on.

I never got to actually play in the game, but I once made a character for a PBEM T2K game who was to be a part of one of the last actual official US military units called up, just after TDM. The unit was composed of "bring-your-own-gear" troops -- so he had, amongst other things, a LeMag MAG-15 rifle, a very-limited-issue AR-15 variant chambering .45 Professional (it's on my site under US Semiautomatic Sporting Rifles J-M), and a decent stock of ammo for it. The back story was that my character knew Tim LeGendre personally, and also knew how to properly hand-load the .45 Professional cartridge.

I see, especially in militia units all over the world, such units being everywhere in T2K.

[waiting4something]

Thanks for the homo comment Jester,:rolleyes: I was in the 7th. Hell even 3/7 for sometime. Anyway atleast your not gonna get that 10 shot break open AR thing.:wtf: It's good to know your planning to make a break for it out of the occupied zone. I just hope a ban doesn't happen before you get out. With the Mexican drug violence being blamed on are American firearms and all.:rolleyes::wall:

[pmulcahy11b]

And no, no way in hell would I buy one of those cool looking phoney black rifles that have the pinned magazine where you have to break the rifle down shotgun style and load! Two words come to mind, "Screw" and "That!" If such were the case, then I would go with something else, in bolt, or a cool shotgun, or something.

Do you know the name of that version? It just sounds so screwy (and stupid), I'd love to search on the Net and find one, just to see it (and read comments about it)!

[headquarters]

Do you know the name of that version? It just sounds so screwy (and stupid), I'd love to search on the Net and find one, just to see it (and read comments about it)!

My on-the-run and outgunned party will come over a few Ar15 type rifles -the joy will be momentary..They are the top break type :)

[jester]

Thanks for the homo comment Jester,:rolleyes: I was in the 7th. Hell even 3/7 for sometime. Anyway atleast your not gonna get that 10 shot break open AR thing.:wtf: It's good to know your planning to make a break for it out of the occupied zone. I just hope a ban doesn't happen before you get out. With the Mexican drug violence being blamed on are American firearms and all.:rolleyes::wall:


LOL, I wouldn't have coped to being with the 7th ;)

Its all cool, some of my best freinds and some family were with the 7th. Its always a running joke we have.


As for the topbreak AR, eh. I had a corowrker who was doing alot of bragging on his "New AR" I was like "WOW!" I thought he jumped through the hoops in 99 to get the permit. then I learned from the other friend whom he showed it to.


There are 2 primary variants;

1.) As I said it has a FIXED magazine. To load, you need to break the weapon down, pushing in/pulling out the rear retaining pin on the reciever and hinge it forward, where you then load the rounds into the magazine like you would a bolt action rifle. They have AKs like this too. Had one at the range the other day who was very very VERY irritating.

2.) The rifle is similiar, but the magazine release is locked. You insert the magazine like normal. But, you need a key, the point of a nail or cartridge of awl or cross top screw driver to depress a special button to activate the magazine release.

Oh the fun I had making fun of that guy.

Hmmm, it could be interesting to find a small supply of these types of rifle in say, "City of the Angels" The people using them are not mechanicaly inclined or gun types. Figure the accountant or banker or lawyer or similiar who bought it for the cool factor after seeing a couple of action movies and in reality had no clue as to the proper employment. To further handicap them, they rare shoot past 100m and they tend to spray the area with rounds.

HQ:

Here is the question, would your area have enough arms and other equipment to equip that many people?

[headquarters]

2.) The rifle is similiar, but the magazine release is locked. You insert the magazine like normal. But, you need a key, the point of a nail or cartridge of awl or cross top screw driver to depress a special button to activate the magazine release.

.

HQ:

Here is the question, would your area have enough arms and other equipment to equip that many people?

I understand the bullet buton is a temporary fix ?Drops in and can be pryed out again upon stripping the gun down ?

Anyhow-according to our dept of justice we have app 750 000 military weapons and about 1000 000 civillian firearms.(Mostly shotguns and hunting rifles)

Out of this number app 10 % or less are illegal /unregistered weapons including resistance guns from WWII.Population is around 4,7 million people.

[jester]

Headquarters:

Those fixed magazine and key magazine release magazine rifles are easily converted back to normal with the regular part or component. So its not a big deal, at least for me. As I stated, I am working on building my own AR lower reciever I purchased just over a year ago.

In the US the part that is considered the firearm is the lower reciever or the pistol frame, all other parts one can actualy purchase via the internet without any special lisence.

As for "APROVED" firearms. California now has a list as well. Sadly, I think your list allows more weapons than they do in California. Heck, they just banned mail order ammunition sales now too. And the taxes here are a bit pricey. I would say that since I bought my 7.5 MAS in the fall of 08, the cost of ammo has doubled! Which is sad!

I went to a gunshop a few weeks ago, <we have 1 in the entire city> their shelves were bare, and they had no idea when they would get new firearms or ammunition.

They did have some Enfields I was interested in, but, eh, they were P14s not P17s, in very poor condition and they wanted ALOT for them, so I passed. Although they did have that SOCOM II that I mentioned, but all of the rails, and it was to muzzle heavy for my taste. Thus, I preffer the SOCOM 16 better.

Oh, in keeping with the title of the thread,

IF I opt for the HK clones it would be because of T2K and T2K alone as I was aware of them, but eh, they never help my interest util after one of my favorite characters even was issued one <One of my first games where the Characters were issued to us. Ah, McFlanery of the SBS, he survived Kalisz and all the way into Allegheny and bought the farm on Airlords of the Ozarks. A 30-06 to the head where he was mortaly wounded.>

[pmulcahy11b]

You know (to bring this back to T2K sort of), these type of AR-15 mods sound more like something amateur gunsmiths in T2K might come up with to bring severely malfunctioning AR-15s and M-16s back to some level of usefulness, and not like real weapons. It's sort of surreal.

[jester]

Paul;

I have used such weapons for militias supported by the ruling gov. Yes, they want to give them some weaponry to defend themselves. But, they do not want to give them weapons, ammo or anything else in large enough quantities that they can go without the support of the power, or effectively resist the powers that be and their forces. Thus, I have had some villages or small communities get weapons like the M1 Garands with about 40 rounds per rifle. Or, SKS rifles with 30 rounds, and of course they only get about a dozen or so rifles. Thus, they have a very limited combat ability. Basicaly, enough to give some defense for a very limited time.

And of course, the ruling power of the region will give the excuse that ammo is scarce. But of course it is to keep them dependant and without the ability to resist.

In one campaign I actualy had it planned out for the longer term problem would be that the supporting power ie, MILGOV would become more and more demanding. And the detatchment by MILGOV who was in the area would become more totalitarian as well in the enforcement of the MILGOV policies and for the MILGOV forces in the community pleasure and luxury while the rest of the community is starving and working like slaves.

Of course the intent was to stir resentment and possibly revolution which would have been a nice twist to the campaign as well.