Pirates steal tanks - real world

[kcdusk]

A russian warship is trying to intercept a ukrainian vessel carrying 33 T-72 tanks and ammunition. The ship was bound for Kenya.

It was taken over by pirates off the horn of africa.

They dont know if hte pirates knew before hand what the ship was carrying.

1) as a plot it sounds a bit "ambitious", but hey, the real world is often crazier than anything you can think of.

2) trying to sell the tanks is going to be a bitch! Yes, they are worth allot, and you'd make a ton of money even selling at half price. But trying to sell 33 MBT's that you stole will still take some work!

[Fusilier]

There are lots of warlords who will be interesting in buying them. I don't think they knew before hand. There is a pirate attack like every 3 days around there... just the odds I think. At the moment there is 60 vessels still held somewhere in Somalia with its 300 crewman... piracy is big business.

[Jason]

Sounds like perfect Merc2k fodder. Piracy is something that never seems to go away because it is so profitable.

[Grimace]

Yeah, those pirates are about to have a real world of hurt come down around them. Not only is there a U.S. destroyer that is "keeping an eye" on the captured ship (it actually has it spotted and is just watching it) but there's a Russian naval ship steaming to go kill 'em some pirates! Or sink the ship barring they can't take it back.

Most figure the pirates will give the ship back once a naval ship shows up and demands their surrender and fires a warning shot. I guess only time will tell.

[Jason Weiser]

I don't think they'll sink her...I suspect the frigate has a Russian Naval Spetznaz team embarked with orders to kill every pirate aboard...and after that, bill Kenya and Ukraine for services rendered...:(

[Mohoender]

Islamist warlords had been thrown out of Mogadishiu. and 33 T-72+amo might tip the balance a bit. I heard that ship was heading for islamist held harbor. I didn't know what it was carrying so.

[jester]

A russian warship is trying to intercept a ukrainian vessel carrying 33 T-72 tanks and ammunition. The ship was bound for Kenya.

It was taken over by pirates off the horn of africa.

They dont know if hte pirates knew before hand what the ship was carrying.

1) as a plot it sounds a bit "ambitious", but hey, the real world is often crazier than anything you can think of.

2) trying to sell the tanks is going to be a bitch! Yes, they are worth allot, and you'd make a ton of money even selling at half price. But trying to sell 33 MBT's that you stole will still take some work!


Not really since you have warlords and local despotes who would readily buy them reguardless of where they came from or how they were aquired.

And for the locals Somalia, Chad, Sudan, Euritria and even parts of Kenya they would tip the balance of power in the region. Think of a scenario very much like T2K where warlords have alot of hired guns but so does your neighboring rival warlord. But, no one has any tanks....until you purchase some, then well the balance is tipped.

Remember a tank is a force multiplier, where it really shines is when it has infanty to support and to support it, and then its really multiplied. And unless you have ALOT of men you can afford to loose, another tank of equal caliber or some kick ass anti armor weapons or air then what are your chances of stopping it?

Of course if grenades and RPGs will do it, as well as molotov cocktails but you need to have the oportunity present itsself, and are your men that well trained and disciplined? And again, how many will you loose doing it? If you loose most of your men defeating the tank then can you rightly claim victory? Or will you now be at the mercy of a warlord who was once much weaker than you but, now you weakened yourself fighting that tank.

Ah the use of complex weapons is one cool factor that tosses a new dynamic into the scheme of things.

As for what will happen, I don't think Ivan will be as subtle to send in a naval speitznaz team, they're more likely to just sink it.

[Matt Wiser]

Weren't the tanks sold by Russia to the Kenyans? If so, the Russians are still liable for the shipment until they reach the intended end users.

The Russians have a reputation for ruthlessness in matters of terrorists/insurgents/pirates; when four Russians were kidnapped in Beirut in 1987 (and one murdered), the GRU found the brother of the terrorist group's leader, and sent him back to the family-one piece at a time, until the three other Russians were set free. A day's worth of deliveries was sufficient enough to induce compliance. Another story from the late '80s had a Soviet destroyer with Naval Infantry aboard returning from an Angolan deployment when they got an SOS call from a frieighter off the Nigerian coast that had been attacked by pirates. The destroyer responded, and found a large freighter with a small coaster moving in alongside to send a boarding party aboard. The destroyer shelled the coaster (pirate vessel) and sent the Naval Infantry aboard. Bottom line, frieighter rescued, pirate vessel scuttled, and the pirates were tried under Soviet Military Law in a summary court-martial for piracy. The accused were found guilty and shot.

[Targan]

However it happens and by whomever I look forward to hearing the news that those Somali pirates have been butchered to the last man. Pirates are scum and though it wouldn't be fair to tar all Somalis with the same brush those that are into killing seem to be zealously homicidal.

Here in Perth we have had some problems with Somali street gangs. We've had a few hundred Somali families come here as refugees and while their elders may be good, law abiding citizens alot of their kids seem to get off on using knives and machetes on people in the streets. Bullet in the back of the head for every one of the bloodthirsty little sh*ts IMO.

[Mohoender]

Weren't the tanks sold by Russia to the Kenyans? If so, the Russians are still liable for the shipment until they reach the intended end users.

The Russians have a reputation for ruthlessness in matters of terrorists/insurgents/pirates; when four Russians were kidnapped in Beirut in 1987 (and one murdered), the GRU found the brother of the terrorist group's leader, and sent him back to the family-one piece at a time, until the three other Russians were set free. A day's worth of deliveries was sufficient enough to induce compliance. Another story from the late '80s had a Soviet destroyer with Naval Infantry aboard returning from an Angolan deployment when they got an SOS call from a frieighter off the Nigerian coast that had been attacked by pirates. The destroyer responded, and found a large freighter with a small coaster moving in alongside to send a boarding party aboard. The destroyer shelled the coaster (pirate vessel) and sent the Naval Infantry aboard. Bottom line, frieighter rescued, pirate vessel scuttled, and the pirates were tried under Soviet Military Law in a summary court-martial for piracy. The accused were found guilty and shot.

I didn't know about the second story (pirate) but that doesn't surprise me; very Russian. At the time of the first, however, I knew a few French military who were found of the Russian dealing ways in Beirut. Actually, they were wishing we could have done the same.:D

By the way the tanks were not sold by Russia but by Ukraine. So expect the Russians to love the idea of sinking that ship and that may be why the US Navy is also chasing it (beside not liking the idea of having these tanks in islamist hands). Of course, I'm a little imaginative here but I bet the Russians would love to see Ukraine loose some money.;)

[copeab]

So, how often is a tank company captured by guys in a boat? ;)

Brandon

[Adm.Lee]

Tank company, nothing-- that's a Soviet-table battalion, with 2 spares. My paper today said that the Kenyans are now saying the tanks and weapons are for the south Sudan forces, who are denying any such thing. And both say that the UN arms embargo is not being violated.

[pmulcahy11b]

Tank company, nothing-- that's a Soviet-table battalion, with 2 spares. My paper today said that the Kenyans are now saying the tanks and weapons are for the south Sudan forces, who are denying any such thing. And both say that the UN arms embargo is not being violated.

Hmmm -- smells like a skank's privates...

[Targan]

Hmmm -- smells like a skank's privates...Oh Paul, you wordsmith. You say the sweetest things :)

[Jason Weiser]

Tank company, nothing-- that's a Soviet-table battalion, with 2 spares. My paper today said that the Kenyans are now saying the tanks and weapons are for the south Sudan forces, who are denying any such thing. And both say that the UN arms embargo is not being violated.


Well now...then the Russians will either a) sink it because they had a hand in the sale...or b) grab it intact as an excuse to trumpet how evil the Ukrainians are ("Violating UN resolutions", we'd never do that!)...sure Vlad...:rolleyes:

[Mohoender]

If the ship is indeed Ukrainian and if the tanks were sold by Ukraine, the Russians certainly don't have anything to do with it. US might, however, but I strongly doubt it.

On the other hand, Ukraine is a land of Mafia (what we usually call Russian mafia is more often Ukrainian) and these guys might well be involved. Moreover, the Ukrainians are big enough to do their crap all by themselves.

Whatever, this a kind of messy situation that is open for imagination.:rolleyes:

[Nowhere Man 1966]

Hmmm, wonder what Jack Sparrow is up to? :D

I was listening to George Noory on "Coast to Coast AM" the other night and one of his guests, a ship captain that helps finds jobs for merchant mariners, claimed that there might by radioactive cargo on board and a few of the pirates have radiation sickness or even died from it. Don't know how true it is, but I'm just passing it along.

Chuck M.

[pmulcahy11b]

Radioactive materials? This situation is getting very special...

I was listening to MSNBC this morning; apparently, the US and France are on the scene. We have one destroyer easily seen, and several others just far enough out that they can't be easily seen and it's difficult for the pirates to tell how many are out there. The French have been sniping at the pirates from helicopters every time they try to leave the ship; they haven't been shooting the pirates yet, but when they get in their motorboats, they destroy the outboard motors with .50 caliber sniper rifles. So somebody is doing something.

[Diamond_Spear]

Hmmm, SEAL, SCUBA gear, nderwater explosives. Would that equal plausible deniability? :D

[Raellus]

Yesterday I read that three of the pirates had been killed... by their own kind. Apparently, an argument broke out among the group on board the hijacked vessel as to what to do and it ended in gunfire. Poetic justice, I say. Those idiots are on the biggest of all emotional rollercoasters right now.

"Wow, we struck the mother load! Freakin' tanks! This is awesome. Wait 'til the guys back in Mogadishu hear about this!"

"They're Russian tanks, stupid."

"Oh sh*t, we just hijacked the wrong people's boat."

"Hey, anybody notice the Arleigh Burke class missile destroyer off our port bow?"

"And isn't that a French frigate?"

"Guys, maybe this wasn't such a good idea..."

[copeab]

Hmmm, wonder what Jack Sparrow is up to? :D

I was listening to George Noory on "Coast to Coast AM" the other night and one of his guests, a ship captain that helps finds jobs for merchant mariners, claimed that there might by radioactive cargo on board and a few of the pirates have radiation sickness or even died from it. Don't know how true it is, but I'm just passing it along.

Chuck M.

I've heard that story, but I thought it was a different ship with another group of pirates.

[Matt Wiser]

If the past is any guide, the pirates will find that the Russians have no patience in these matters; when terrorists in Beirut kidnapped four "diplomats" (read: intelligence agents) and murdered one, the GRU went out and found out who the leader of the group that did the deed was, and found his brother. They sent the brother back to the family-one piece at a time. Hostages promptly released with profound apologies. In this situation, the Russians won't waste much time talking to these creeps, and will teach them the folly of their ways. The survivors will probably be interrogated (harshly) and disposed of (the waters off Somalia are notorious for sharks....).

[kcdusk]

I've been bush for 5 days. Any news on if/how this was resolved?

[bigehauser]

Hmmm, wonder what Jack Sparrow is up to? :D

I was listening to George Noory on "Coast to Coast AM" the other night and one of his guests, a ship captain that helps finds jobs for merchant mariners, claimed that there might by radioactive cargo on board and a few of the pirates have radiation sickness or even died from it. Don't know how true it is, but I'm just passing it along.

Chuck M.


Is there ANY way I can listen to this show where I am(Okinawa)?

I love love LOVE that show, but, sadly(almost choking up here lol) I have not been able to hear the show for literally YEARS.

[kato13]

Is there ANY way I can listen to this show where I am(Okinawa)?



www.wlsam.com I believe that they stream it.

[Grimace]

It seems it's pretty much impossible to find any information after Sept 30 about this article. So I couldn't tell you what's new. The last reported is that there were something like 4 naval ships around it, the pirates were vowing the fight to the death (oooo...big threat) and the Russians were still steaming to the area.

Silence after that.

[jester]

The last report was last weekend. They will sink the ship if their demands are not met, and they will start killing the crew.

I asked this in another discussion group.

"Are they that stupid?"

The ship and the crew are the only thing keeping them from being killed by half a dozen countries. They kill the hostages or sink the ship they will loose their sheild. And the boat is basicaly surrounded, they try making a break to shore in their powered lifeboats, well, I can only imagine the gauntlet they would have to run to make it. I would bet on them succeeding.

At this point, I think their best bet is to radio, "You can have the ship back, we will be leaving, we'll take a couple of the crew with us in our boat as we motor to shore, and let them go once we land. Sorry for the misunderstanding." That is the best thing they can manage at this point, unless they want to go down with the ship or openly surrender and face a maritine trial for piracy.

[Targan]

At this point, I think their best bet is to radio, "You can have the ship back, we will be leaving, we'll take a couple of the crew with us in our boat as we motor to shore, and let them go once we land. Sorry for the misunderstanding." That is the best thing they can manage at this point, unless they want to go down with the ship or openly surrender and face a maritine trial for piracy.
I hope they keep acting stupid and someone gets their thumb out of their asses and butchers them to a man. And feeds the bloody scraps to the sharks.

[kcdusk]

I read today that pirates who took a ship with tanks and other military equipment (I'm assuming its the same ship with T-72 tanks etc) have reached agreement on a multimillion dollar ransom. If its true, the article says the crew will be released shortly, once payment details are confirmed.

I'll be amazed if this goes through. Certainly an interesting end to things ... or maybe the beginings of something else ... ??? !!!

[pmulcahy11b]

I read today that pirates who took a ship with tanks and other military equipment (I'm assuming its the same ship with T-72 tanks etc) have reached agreement on a multimillion dollar ransom. If its true, the article says the crew will be released shortly, once payment details are confirmed.

I'll be amazed if this goes through. Certainly an interesting end to things ... or maybe the beginings of something else ... ??? !!!

Dammit, paying them a ransom is just encouraging them. It's the same reason why you don't (theoretically, anyway) negotiate with terrorists.

[Brother in Arms]

I have been wondering what happened with that, I had heard a couple weeks ago they wanted like 20 Million dollars! (said in best doctor evil voice) but now they only want 3million....

Brother in Arms

[Marc]

Dammit, paying them a ransom is just encouraging them. It's the same reason why you don't (theoretically, anyway) negotiate with terrorists.

I've recently read an article where it was recognized that the majority of the shipping companies that have had any of their ships hijacked by the Somalian pirates prefer not to report the aggression and solve the problem in a "more discreet way". Statistically, only one of each three hijacks are reported. The reason seems to be the fear of the shipping companies to see the prices of their insurances increased.

Every month, several ships are hijacked near the Somalian coast. If any information became known is only because the prey of the moment is an important one or the affected company or government can not take care of the problem with the proper discretion.

Ships are hijacked and liberated without the general knowledge because all of the affected parts think they win (or at least not don't lost too much) with an secret agreement. First, the pirates are, of course, happy to receive a ransom. Second, the governments are looking at another place with the hope that the problem could be solved in a civilized and private way without their political (or military) implication and without taking any risk in the always delicate matter of put in danger the hostage's lives. Third we have the companies. They want to preserve their ship, their cargo, hopefully their crew and their current insurance. Fourth we have the crew, that only wants a safe return to home and that obviously prefer to be liberated by the payment of the ransom than with a military intervention (specially if the operation is the kind of rescue of hostages operation in the typical Russian way):uzi: . And finally, but not less important, we have the people who arrange the negotiation between the pirates and the shipping company. A discreet, experienced and unemotional law firm in the City of London. Don't imagine an exotic exchange in a remote and dusty African village! :)

[Targan]

I have been wondering what happened with that, I had heard a couple weeks ago they wanted like 20 Million dollars! (said in best doctor evil voice) but now they only want 3million....
Yeah but now other Somali pirates (wouldn't be surprised if the two groups are linked) are looking like they might get $25 million for a captured Saudi tanker. If the two groups are linked that would certainly help to explain why they are now prepared to take only $3 million for the freighter full of tanks and weapons. They can't offload the cargo and it could get them slaughtered if they play hardball too long.

[ChalkLine]

Somalia's a really, really complex place.

It's not really a good idea to use the term 'Islamist' about Somalia, as its always had Islam as its most basic foundation. Nearly all Somalis are Islamic, and they have a culture that's comfortable with its strictures. Perhaps 'Islamist' could be replaced with 'Conservative' as it kinda means the same thing there.

Somalia has regions, tribes and ethnicities that are far, far less important than the clans. The Big Ten clans can defy 'Warlords' (another non-word) and enforce their will anywhere in the country. Clan based arrangements, like 17th century Scottish Highlanders, trumps all other loyalties. Most marriages are still contracted to ease clan relationships.

The death of Barre and the isolation of the generals created a flux in Somalia exacerbated by typical Cold War meddling from The Big Two. The loss of central control meant that each general was responsible for an area, and frictions arose between them as to who should succeed the central control and end the power vacuum. It started to subside again except that Aideed (a former Barre General) was still a major power, and was alarmed by UN-sponsored Pakistani help for common people that irritated some clan leaders. Aideed, thinking the Pakistanis were undermining him, ambushed some. This was just common practice in Somalia, it told you to watch yourself. Of course, the Pakistanis didn't have to put up with that sort of shit and things got very tense. Enter at this point the US and the loss of control by the Pakistanis of the effort, culminating in the regrettable Olympic Hotel Debacle and the loss of all those lives. (By the way, the Somalis didn't mortar the rangers because they were holding Somali families hostage, not the sort of thing Ridley Scott tells you).

The Islamic Courts arose and Aideed died, stability started to return and the innate conservatism if the ICU meant less piracy, brigandage and so on. Unfortunately, because the ICU gave lip service to Jihadis someone somewhere thought it would be a good idea if they got kicked out. It should be remembered by us westerners that conservative Islamic people don't like Jihad, its usage is usually abused and they're suspicious of projecting old customs on new events. A power vacuum again evolved, the Interim Federal Government which was little more than Ethiopian Somalis (there's a bunch there from the old colonial map-fucking) trying a power grab for their clans so irked everyone with their links to foreign governments that Somaliland and Puntland seceded (under former ICU generals).

This is another cluster-fuck of our own making.

[LAW0306]

Way to go chalk always love to see your point of view keep it coming...If you read our stuff on oz please pipe up if you see something wrong...

[ChalkLine]

Way to go chalk always love to see your point of view keep it coming...If you read our stuff on oz please pipe up if you see something wrong...

Hi Law! Long time no chat. I hope everything's going well with ya.

What's this stuff about Oz? Is that Targan's thread? I'll mosey over and have a peek.

[LAW0306]

goto DC working group we have come up with a finish more or less up to about 2005 for the T2K world we have Darwin doing alot and have a Mech Brigade in CENTCOM and one under 8th army..check it out for the details mail chico if you have stuff to share he is the lead and editor for us...


also Raes game is still going miss you guys over there...we need some east germans or some russian deserters....

[Targan]

goto DC working group we have come up with a finish more or less up to about 2005 for the T2K world we have Darwin doing alot and have a Mech Brigade in CENTCOM and one under 8th army..check it out for the details mail chico if you have stuff to share he is the lead and editor for us...
Love your work Law. You know I hold your views in high regard. Really looking forward to the DC Working Group's further views on the US-Australian alliance during the Twilight War. Love to see what Chalkie has to say on the matter too.

[LAW0306]

it was just logical for us in how it worked out ..also i had ported there 4 times know the area and the history and it just worked...

[LAW0306]

On the pirates my unit sent one ship to the bottom in the spring of 04. we were out there patroling captured a 90ft dowd took the crew and sunk it. our DDG sunk a few also with 5 inch gun...very good mission.

[Targan]

On the pirates my unit sent one ship to the bottom in the spring of 04. we were out there patroling captured a 90ft dowd took the crew and sunk it. our DDG sunk a few also with 5 inch gun...very good mission.
Sweet.

[kato13]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1110585/Pictured-The-moment-3million-ransom-parachuted-Somali-pirates.html


This is the dramatic moment a ransom of $3million was paid to Somali pirates to end the world's biggest ship hijacking.

The canister full of cash was parachuted onto the Sirius Star - observed by the U.S. Navy who provided these images - and the two-month ordeal of the 25 crew, including two Britons, was finally over.

However things went badly wrong for the pirates soon after the drop - they squabbled over how to split the money and then a wave washed off their getaway boat and drowned five of them.

The pirates originally wanted more than £16 million to release the boat and its £65 million load of oil. Eventually they accepted the offer of $3million (around £2million).
Dramatic: The apparent ransom payment is delivered via a parachuted container to pirates holding the Sirius Star

But as they made off they continued to row about the payout.

'Two of them swam and survived. One is still missing.

The weather was so terrible that it blew the boat over, then sank it.

We got five dead bodies and we are still searching for the missing one. The waves were disastrous,' said Farah Osman, an associate of the gang.

It is not known what happened to the money or those who survived.

8<-----------snipped---------->8

[chico20854]

And the Faina, the Ukrainian ship with the 33 tanks aboard, was released last week after $3.2 million was airdropped to the pirates.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/05/somali-pirates-free-military-ship

[Matt Wiser]

I'm actually surprised those pirates on that T-72 laden freighter are still breathing. Given as how the Russians can be...ruthless in such matters. I was half expecting to hear on CNN that Russian SF had stormed the ship, eliminated the pirates, and sailed her off. Maybe the shipowners asked the Russians to hold off and see if the Pirates accepted the deal that was offered? If they don't, the threat of Spetsnatz paying them a nighttime visit hangs over their heads.

[Legbreaker]

What's to say that's not exactly what happened and the report is an out of character attempt by the Russians to look less bloodthirsty?

But that's probably just the cynic in me talking....

[chico20854]

or possibly that the Russians can talk big talk but when it comes to pushing someone a little tougher than Georgians or Ukrainians around they can't perform????

[jester]

or possibly that the Russians can talk big talk but when it comes to pushing someone a little tougher than Georgians or Ukrainians around they can't perform????


Or more so they can and are willing or used to be willing to use the sledgehammer in their own backyards but they simply can't project the power out of their immediate region of traditional influence?

And remember Somalia is one big Shitehole. So, where would Ivan get any form of support?

[Marc]

I think that, most probably, given that the tanks were Ukrainian and not Russian, Russians don’t give a damn what could happen to the ship, the cargo and the crew. And Ukrainians have paid the ransom, solving the solution in the same way all the others. Mmmmm…this must be what the wise man call globalization… ¿?¿?;)