Military Ration Information

[HorseSoldier]

Don't know if any of this has been posted before, but MREinfo.com (http://www.mreinfo.com/) has a bunch of good detailed information on US military rations and the sort of major NATO players (UK, Germany, etc) and some minor ones.

They also have a discussion forum for collectors which has information on rations from all over, including some T2K noteworthies:

A very good write up on the East German Army's field rations (http://www.mreinfo.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2607), with photos of packed (and opened) contents.

Polish MRE Equivalents (http://www.mreinfo.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3310) (I think anachronistic for 1990s timeline, but who'd really know? -- And for the truly hard core gaming group, I think the thread has links to a site you can order from . . .)

Russian IRPs (MRE Equivalent) menu translations (http://www.mreinfo.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3238) -- again anachronistic, but if I remember right there's a website that mostly does WW2 reproduction rations for reenactors that does a repro of the Afghan War-era Soviet Mountain Ration.

And various other threads covering a lot of detail on popular MRE equivalents, as well as some details about many smaller nation's rations.

[natehale1971]

A little thread necormacy here... But I was wondering about the field rations that would be used during the Twilight War... Most MREs and pre-packaged foods that had been made and issued before the nukes flew would be used sparingly, bringing back the old fashioned field kitchens and beef on the hoof supply trains that would be used when in cantoments and other camps.

But this is about Field Rations... my dad said that some camps in theater Vietnam had the ability to make freeze dried LRP Rations... Does anyone know anything about how hard it would be for both sides of the war to be making local versions of Field Rations?

[Legbreaker]

Preservation of foods has been carried out for thousands of years. Many of these processes such as bottling, drying, smoking, salting, etc would see a huge resurgence.
Almost none of these processes are all that high tech and some (such as sun drying) don't even require fire.

[natehale1971]

Yes... i know, i was wondering how hard it would be to set up the facilities on a large scale to provide food for the troops while on the move. the idea of cantonments being able to produce something like the LRRP rations from Vietnam... or the like.

[Legbreaker]

Baking of biscuits and the like would be fairly simple to achieve and the product would be ok to eat for a week or two (possibly more depending on packaging). Much of the contents of such rations are likely to have been produced at harvest time and so creation of the packs would be as simple as drawing the various components from stores and packaging them up together.

[natehale1971]

So the packs can definately be setup with a meat jerky, bread and vegies... the three staples. I know that you can make cornbread that can be stored for long hauls... i just don't know how to make hard tack.

The use of pre-nuke exchange rations would be during emergencies, while the locally made rations would be the standard they'd be getting... hell, it might end up with people actually looking forward to eating MREs...

[WallShadow]

Modern "seal-a-meal" vacuum pack devices and food dehydrators will add to the lean months' food supply.

One wonders if some surviving nuke tech comes up with a "kitchen table workbench" food irradiator?

[Targan]

Canning foods is 1800s tech. I think taking a look at the sorts of preserved rations available during the Civil War/War of Northern Aggression (I don't don't want to offend any members from south of the Mason-Dixon Line!) would provide a pretty good idea of what could be done post-TDM without much in the way of high-tech gear.

When I was a kid my mum would bottle various kinds of fruit when they were in season - all she used was heat treatment, sugar, water and glass jars with rubber seals in their metal lids. I'd imagine salting/brining meats before bottling them would work pretty effectively too.

[Raellus]

I've wondered if Vietnam War era "Lurp" rations- freeze-dried or dehydrated meals packed in what could be discribed as Ziploc-type bags- could be produced in large quantities, post atomic exchange. By all accounts (that I've read), they were lighter, more portable, easier to prepare, and tastier than U.S. military K or C rations. Just add some hot (or not) water and eat right out of the bag. Thoughts?

EDIT: Just read that Nate basically asked the exact same question several posts ago (sorry Nate). Still waiting on an answer, though.

[natehale1971]

It's okay Rae...

My question basicly is about what levels would have production facilities at their cantonments. Theather/Army Group level, Army level, Corps level, Division level, Brigade level, and Battalion.

In my mind i see canontoments having 'stay at home' type troops composed of disabled vets who aren't able to go back out in the field, but are still somewhat combat capable (ie walking wounded). They'd be filling the REMF roles... but be called something different (with a little respect for them since they got assigned there due to their injuries). Any idea what kind of name they'd get?

[Legbreaker]

Any idea what kind of name they'd get?
Senior NCOs... ;)

[raketenjagdpanzer]

In my "Going Home Handout", I'd wager that a whole bunch of the "2 MREs per person per day" would fall under the category of captured food. Not a lot of actual, real MREs left come 1999.

I wonder if I should amend that to state that food will be prepared and distributed onboard the ships, with a note that uneaten MREs have to be turned over (to wind up in the soup pot/steam trays...)

EDIT: Also disappointed that I didn't see any Tourist's Delight or fresh bread in there ;)

[simonmark6]

Freeze drying just behind the lines would be a possibility and could take two forms according to my research:

1) Home style freeze drying using domestic freezers
This is useful only for small fruits of slices of fruits and vegetables, especially apples and potatoes. The process is fairly manpower intensive and takes about a week a batch. The bonus is that if you store them in airtight boxes or bags (can be done by sucking the air out and sealing), they can last several years.

2) Larger scale freeze drying to produce LRRP style rations
To freeze dry whole meals you appear to need a proper freeze drying machine. These can be fairly small, they can be used for clinical experimentation and you can probably find ones that would fit into a mobile kitchen trailer in the following places:
Hospitals
Research labs
Colleges
Product research if food production facilities
So it would be possible to find them although not everyone'll have them.
The process is still relatively energy intensive which would limit its use post TDM but it is doeable.

Post TDM I'd see rations being made up of:
1) Fresh food that lasts: Twice baked bread/black bread, biscuits, potatoes etc. augmented by whatever fresh food the team can forage.
2) Emergency rations: One or two days of preserved foods: hard tack, freeze dried fruits, jam etc. only to be used when ordered.
3) LRRP style rations: Only issued to high priority missions, they would be the sign that you were up against serious opposition.

I don't think you can make complete meals just using a home freezer method, there is too much water and too many variables.

[mikeo80]

There is a working salt mine in Salzburg. To my way of thinking, any troop in the area would seize the mine. Salt would once again become "money" as in the time of the Roman Empire. Trade salt for meat, veggies....

AS others have said in this thread, canning, pickling, salting, smoking would all resurrect VERY quickly once the power went out.

I think Nate's comment is appropriate. If you had a group of recovering troops, preparing food is tedious, but not necessarily strenuous.

Hmmm..... Scenario fodder!!!????@@@

My $0.02 !

Mike

[Legbreaker]

During winter refrigeration wouldn't be much of a problem either. Move even further north into the permafrost and you've got all year round refrigeration just by digging a hole in the ground and covering it with animal skins, blankets, or whatever.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

There is a working salt mine in Salzburg. To my way of thinking, any troop in the area would seize the mine. Salt would once again become "money" as in the time of the Roman Empire. Trade salt for meat, veggies....

AS others have said in this thread, canning, pickling, salting, smoking would all resurrect VERY quickly once the power went out.

I think Nate's comment is appropriate. If you had a group of recovering troops, preparing food is tedious, but not necessarily strenuous.

Hmmm..... Scenario fodder!!!????@@@

My $0.02 !

Mike

There's an episode of the tv show Firefly that has the gang being chased all over the solar system by the Alliance because during the beginning of the show they found a derelict military spaceship and boosted many crates of rations off of it (apparently the bad guys liked to keep people on the edge of starvation? I guess? I didn't watch that show much.)

So imagine the characters hear - and see evidence of - actual real pre TDM MREs and the word comes down from command that a cargo vessel, thought destroyed, had washed aground somewhere on the Polish Baltic coast. Contents? 150000 pre-TDM MRE mealpacks. The Soviets don't know it's there but it's well outside the operational range of Germany.

Might make a good scenario leading up to Going Home - getting foodstuffs for the trip...

[HorseSoldier]

But this is about Field Rations... my dad said that some camps in theater Vietnam had the ability to make freeze dried LRP Rations... Does anyone know anything about how hard it would be for both sides of the war to be making local versions of Field Rations?

I hadn't heard that any of the LRP or Indigenous Ration packs were made in theater in SVN, but given the sheer size of the US organization there I could see it being possible.

For freeze-dried stuff in T2K I see two problems. First, it requires large and specialized equipment -- this might be a work around that some units can manage with know how and some under employed DISCOM maintenance types during those long post-nuke winters.

The second problem is that the process is energy intensive, and requires electricity. This is unlike older methods where the energy requirements are lower and may be effectively free, plus minus some very minimal infrastructure (sun/wind drying) or can be met with energy sources besides electricity (i.e. wood fired ovens or smoke houses).

So the packs can definately be setup with a meat jerky, bread and vegies... the three staples. I know that you can make cornbread that can be stored for long hauls... i just don't know how to make hard tack.

Hard tack is pretty dirt simple to make -- simple dough (no fat, to prevent issues with it going rancid) and bake to dryness. Haven't tried it, but apparently right out of the over the texture and feel isn't quite right, but once they cool you've got stuff that any 18th or 19th century veteran would recognize (and probably like, assuming your version lacks the weevil content of the originals . . .).

[Jucky78]

Delving into the intricacies of field rations during the Twilight War, it's fascinating to consider the shift back to traditional methods like field kitchens and live cattle supplies due to the scarcity of pre-packaged foods post-nuclear fallout. Interestingly, my dad once mentioned the existence of freeze-dried LRP rations in certain Vietnam camps, sparking curiosity about the feasibility of both sides creating local versions of field rations. (https://upbhulekh.org/) It raises questions about resourcefulness amidst adversity. Your poignant reminder about the unglamorous reality of heroism strikes a chord. Amidst the chaos, someone has to step up. It's not about glory; it's about necessity. In the absence of alternatives, the duty falls on those willing to embrace it, emphasizing the unsung heroism of everyday actions.

[Homer]

A couple of observations on rations and what happens after…

1. MRE’s (the little brown bag of joy kind) are really soft cans. Considering commercial products there’s an incredible amount of protein (spam, sardines, corned beef)in cans. Throw that in with some three bean salad, canned beans, pasta, and fruit and you’ve got a surrogate C-ration.

2. There’s a lot of inadvertent packaging suitable for rations coming online in the 80s and 90s. Top shelf entrees (retort), boil in the bag rice (dehydrated), instant soup (freeze dried/dehydrated), kool aid/tang powder, even astronaut ice cream (freeze dried). Easy to keep as iron rations or issue as supplements in ersatz MREs.

3. A dehydrator/oven setup can be used to prepare dehydrated rations that will keep for at least 90 days (a campaign). Stews, pastas, etc can all be made with care taken to ingredients, and dehydrated, and packaged. Somewhat edible dry, and can be rehydrated in the bag with water (hot or cold).

[Brit]

So for larger groups a return to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_kitchen

Perhaps staffed by civilians?

[Homer]

For US forces there would be a heavier reliance on the existing Mobile Kitchen Trailer (MKT)/Modular Tent Kitchen (MTK) and the Kitchen, Company Level, Field Feeding (KCLFF).

Mech/infantry battalions are MTOEd three MKTs, tank/FA battalions have two. Rachel is above brigade my have MTKs in addition to or in lieu of MKTs. (Mobility is the greatest difference). Separate companies/troops/batteries and combat support battalions are the most likely places to find KCLFFs, although ground cavalry troops in DIV CAV also had them.

The MKT/MTK handles all classes of rations, and can be readily used to prepare non-standard fresh foods. KCLFFs are optimized for tray pack rations and limited fresh options. However, since the KCLFF is essentially a large hot water heater, with a range and pot boiler, it can still be used to turn out stews, etc and make high volumes of soup and coffee. KCLFFs are humvee mobile, and are pushed forward to more austere environments than the MKT (a company sized outpost may have a KCLFF for day to day use with troops receiving hit A’s when rotated back or by mermite).

In the T2K environment, the MKT/MTK gas burners can be easily converted to alcohol (jp8/multi fuel burners came on line in the late 90s). The KCLFF runs on batteries, so needs a generator or vehicle (the company’s 5k generator that powers the radios, lights, and battery chargers can easily handle the load). Both kitchen styles have two important secondary functions in an austere environment. First, they produce large quantities of boiling water, ideal for purification, field hygiene and decontamination purposes (when in travel configuration all are protected against nbc contamination by easily decontaminated covers or cases). Second, the kitchens produce heat in quantity, making them useful for extemporaneous rewarming during winter operations.