Alternate apocalypses

[copeab]

We've talked at times about alternatives to an all-out nuclear war. I thought I'd start a thread to group the ideas together (sorry if such a thread already exists).

My suggestion: eruption of the Yellowstone Park "supervolcano". apart from wrecking the US, it would also cause severe global climatic changes in just a few months.

[pmulcahy11b]

My suggestion: eruption of the Yellowstone Park "supervolcano". apart from wrecking the US, it would also cause severe global climatic changes in just a few months.

It's a good one from the global disaster standpoint; the only real problem I have with it is that it puts most of the US and southern Canada into the unsurvivable zone.

[Webstral]

In addition to being a good disaster scenario, it's one that can strike with little warning. There was an extended run-up to the nuclear exchange. Even the nuclear exchange left some room for preparations. Yellowstone, though it seems like it ought to give some indications before going, doesn't necessarily have to telegraph its intent.

Webstral

[Webstral]

This is tangential to the effects of Yellowstone's eruption. Should we be exploiting this rich energy resource that is overdue for an eruption? We have a source of geothermal energy that defies the imagination. Surely we could sink a few wells--maybe even figure out a way to camouflage the operation so that the park isn't spoiled. Of course, all that electricity would have to go someplace to be useful.

Webstral

[pmulcahy11b]

In addition to being a good disaster scenario, it's one that can strike with little warning. There was an extended run-up to the nuclear exchange. Even the nuclear exchange left some room for preparations. Yellowstone, though it seems like it ought to give some indications before going, doesn't necessarily have to telegraph its intent.

Webstral

There is a small group of scientists that say Yellowstone is already giving those indications, though they have no idea exactly when a super-eruption would happen. Could be tomorrow, could be thousands of years from now. But some scientists think that geological-time-wise, it will be very soon.

Now that I've given you guys something nice to sleep on...:D

You know, something like Yellowstone shows you that, while mankind can do some nasty stuff to the world, we're really just pipsqueaks, relatively speaking.

[copeab]

You know, something like Yellowstone shows you that, while mankind can do some nasty stuff to the world, we're really just pipsqueaks, relatively speaking.

The reason Yellowstone came to mind was because someone elsewhere had wanted a post-apoc WWII setting but was having a hard time coming up with a scenario where everyone could have a sufficient number of nukes. I had been listening to the song "1816, The Year Without A Summer" by Rasputina and started thinking of volcanoes, which reminded me of a show I had seen on TV about the eruptions in the past and the next one somewhat overdue ...

[jester]

Thats kinda funny since the movie 2012 aired on three channels last night for its cable opening. And it was based more or less with that as a theme.


We have yellowstone.

We have Earthquakes

Volcanoes maybe the ring of fire starts acting up with lots of Eathquakes, then Tsuamis and then volcanoes blowing their tops. That would give ALOT of similiar effects of a nuke. Fires, cities leveled, populations decimated, crops and crop land terribly affected, governments toppled and a perpetual gray gloomy overcast which will diminish the ability to grow crops, lets leave there a few sunny days that seem cloudy to the temps don't drop to a new iceage and all plant and animal life dies. But, enough that crop yeilds are reduced signifigantly. Famine, Plague, displaced masses etc.

Toss in the geopolitical ramifications. Refugees flooding across boarders, crime, limited resources for your own people. Age old animosities, think the Balkans or Eastern Europe and Africa won't turn into a powder keg in such an event as so many ethnic groups don't strike one another? Or countries anexing areas that do have food or food capacity. Or retaliation from one country to another for failing to aid when it was asked for? Or countries giving aid and charging for it, then moviing in with troops to collect what is owed.

there are so many places to go.

And then we also have the failing of governments. Either they failed, or they were destroyed. So, you would have ALOT of small fiefdoms starting up. Isolated towns who could withstand the hoardes of refugees.

And, a few military outposts, or even refugee or supply centers where the military was able to maintain order and control. These would be either die in short order, or become very organized and then a strong regional power.

[LBraden]

So.... you have gone so far with the only "true" certainty, Yellowstone.

What about another "True certainty" that we all know is happening, and too many people shove their fingers in their ears and go "lalalalala" when people talk about it...

Oil drying up

Its going to happen, not tomorrow, not next week, but soon, best estimates is that we will have enough "mine-able" oil till about 2080 if I recall correctly the "worst case scenario", but what about a slight edit to the whole time line, where about 60% of the worlds "mine-able" oil suddenly dried up, be it a case of internal nuclear war in the Middle East, or a massive earth quake there.

I know it would change a few levels of the ideas, but its a good scenario discussion point right there, and its one of the least-discussed "what if" that I have seen, so far I only know of one PC game and a hour long documentary on National Geographic Channel that has even touched upon the subject.

[pmulcahy11b]

there are so many places to go.

And then we also have the failing of governments. Either they failed, or they were destroyed. So, you would have ALOT of small fiefdoms starting up. Isolated towns who could withstand the hoardes of refugees.

And lots of folks dying a slow, horrible death of mesothelioma from inhaling volcanic ash. Nasty.

[pmulcahy11b]

What about another "True certainty" that we all know is happening, and too many people shove their fingers in their ears and go "lalalalala" when people talk about it...

Oil drying up

Now that, along with global climate change, overpopulation and a general drying up of resources, is what I think is going to IRL cause a T2K scenario. And the terminal effects from all that are all going to hit at about the same time, 20-35 years from now.

[mikeo80]

The scenarios postulated above are all equally scary...SO let me add my two cents.

1) An airborne version of Ebola or other epidemic

2) Asteroid Strike

3) Economic collapse

4) "Independance Day" visit from E.T.

5) "1984" government starting war

6) Mass religious/cultural hysteria caused by any of the above problems

7) A combination of factors from above

Now let's see who can sleep tonight!! :D

[pmulcahy11b]

The scenarios postulated above are all equally scary...SO let me add my two cents.

1) An airborne version of Ebola or other epidemic

Now let's see who can sleep tonight!! :D

The sleeper possible future contagion some of doctors are worried about -- HIV mutated into an airborne-transmitted pathogen.

[mikeo80]

The sleeper possible future contagion some of doctors are worried about -- HIV mutated into an airborne-transmitted pathogen.

I know this is a T2K site...But

Your idea sounds a LOT like the "lottery" virus that the agents of Krell used to defeat Prime Base in Morrow Project...

Something to think about??

Mike

[mikeo80]

TO add to my list of possible nighmares....

Reversal of the magnetic poles

Massive Solar flare

X-Ray Star explosion..(Possible explanation for the Denovian Extinciton Event)

Ozone layer collapse

Sleep well, all!! :D

[copeab]

I know this is a T2K site...But


There is a Phoenix Project forum here ;)

[pmulcahy11b]

TO add to my list of possible nighmares....

Reversal of the magnetic poles

Massive Solar flare

X-Ray Star explosion..(Possible explanation for the Denovian Extinciton Event)

Ozone layer collapse

Sleep well, all!! :D

And don't forget being on the pole-axis of a gamma-ray burster supernova that's within 80 years from us...oh yeah, we might be! Sleep well, my children!:p

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WR_104

[pmulcahy11b]

And then, of course, there is the hypothetical collision with a small object made of strange matter:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strange_matter

Sleeep, sleep, sleeeeep...:burnbg:

[pmulcahy11b]

Oh, and don't forget the "gray goo" scenario -- an accidental release of improperly-programmed nanorobots...:eek:

[pmulcahy11b]

And there's the ultimate doomsday scenario:

DICK CHENEY IS ELECTED PRESIDENT!

:vader:

[HorseSoldier]

All of those sound promising, though I think you'd lose the uniqueness of the T2K setting (or maybe not -- could have PCs deployed over across the water or farmed out to some SOCOM lower key effort or UN mission or whatever). Several of them would probably drive players crazy, though -- "the world ended, you don't know why." (Kind of like various SF books, actually.)

[copeab]

Oh, and don't forget the "gray goo" scenario -- an accidental release of improperly-programmed nanorobots...:eek:

Hey, I read Prey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prey_(novel)) by Michael Crichton ;)

[copeab]

For those who missed it before (or forgot about it), there's a thread/poll (http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=1150) from last year.

[jester]

Here is one:

One of the major religions finds their ancient lost ICON, and poof they go on the warpath.

Resources are always good.

Here is one, Oil runs out in the big players in the Middle East leaving only the smaller states with limited capacity. They unit with some of the larger super powers taking up sides. Kind of like WWI with all of the PACTs that were made.

I can see the three main players:

US
Rusia
China
India

Everyone else picks a side to join.

Then, we decide what countries still have oil.

Dubai, Kuwait <much reduced capacity> Venezuella, Indonesia, Gulf of Mexico, North Sea, Romania. Canada perfects the shale and sand oil production as well as the whole arctic oil gets going and Alaska is producing. Also, off the Coast of Africa, Fla and California. This way we can have forces fighting basicaly all over the world. Of course the main producers will still produce oil, but at just enough capacity to give them a reduced military vehicle capacity.


Another one is,

WATER!!!!! Some waterborne virus contaminates a good portion of the fresh water in the world. With only a few sites untainted. and a few plants able to purify contaminated water.


As for troops of a nation on the otherside of the world:

Releif personel. Been all over doing that work. Its easy and difficult, because you go UNARMED alot of the time. So, that could put a whole new dynamic to your PCs. Say they have a half a dozen weapons for an entire platoon, then the fit hits the shan in a royal way and they are stranded having to survive the masses of refugees, bandits who would prey on them religious fanatics, and those who would blame your characters nation for interfering or not helping enough.


Another scenario:

The earths rotation changes taking it about 3 to 4 degrees off, so when it gets cold it get colder to the point of just short of not allowing life to survive, but only for about a month to 45 days, and then when it returns it is that much closer to the sun having the oposite effect making that much hotter.


Or, the poles melt <I do not prescribe to the global warming theory personaly> but, with the above scenario it would work too. Flooding of coastal communities <where about 2/3 of the earths population lives> which in turn create a shift in the ocean currents which regulate weather patterns so now the weather is messed up and we then return to an ice age which again screws things up before the earth returns to stasis. That would be a good adventure for characters to work with.

Have them all start out with Red Cross and other releif workers supported by military personel <your PCs> doing rescue/releif work for some hurricain or tsunami ravages area.

[jester]

For those who missed it before (or forgot about it), there's a thread/poll (http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=1150) from last year.

What type of zombies are not covered under the Biological Disaster since it says "most zombies."

[copeab]

What type of zombies are not covered under the Biological Disaster since it says "most zombies."

Dead bodies raised by magic and noninfectious would be one example. Another might be a Judgment Day scenario where Earth becomes Hell and Lucifer puts damned souls back into the remains of their bodies (animating the corpses).

[pmulcahy11b]

Dead bodies raised by magic and noninfectious would be one example.

No, those are zombies! I had a good education; I played lots of D&D in high school!

[kato13]

Politics will only stir up bad feelings. Posts deleted.

[copeab]

No, those are zombies! I had a good education; I played lots of D&D in high school!

I said those aren't an example of a biological disaster. Zombies that create other zombies through infectious means are.

[Fusilier]

Most definitely global warming.

It's finally caught the attention of the US military/CIA now too, who are looking into the what the future has in store for America and potential conflicts.

Most of the resulting problems which it will create will be coming slow and steady maybe - but pretty much guaranteed.

[pmulcahy11b]

Politics will only stir up bad feelings. Posts deleted.

I consider myself chastised.

[headquarters]

It has happened from time to time you know.

Mediterranean civilizations exploding in volcanic fireblasts that creat tidal waves that drown everything after ,setting things back to a nigh on neolithic level

Plagues born by bugs that live on common rodenst that wipe out something liejk 50-90% of the population in a short time span -and the mass hysteria and ill adviced decision that spawns-the European plagues..

Resources dwindling/crops failing and states warring with eachother because of the harsh times -the South American civilizations -from astrology and towering ziggurats to being swallowed by the jungle and going back to substenance farming for hundreds of years

Upheaval and war ,internal /domestic dissarray causing massive migrations that press the borders of a major power until it collapses- the Western Roman Empire..

The lure of an empires wealth lead to border wars that burn out the tenacity and drain the power of a major power until it is overrun -the Chinese Han dynasties conquered by the Mongols

I am sure there have been random tidal waves and volcanic eruptions and asteroid strikes that have ended a few too .( like the destruction of Lisboa in the 1700s -although that didnt end the Portoguese outright).

What will end ours is hard to say - but at some point it will crash like the others have imho .

(Please note - I do not qualify what constitutes civilization here -I just state examples that ended some of the recognized ones-just thought I would add this caveat as there seems to be a little political simmering going on in this thread)

[pmulcahy11b]

I seems that some of the scenarios listed are either not survivable or only very-limited survivable (gamma ray bursters, X-Ray stars and a couple of others).

[mikeo80]

I seems that some of the scenarios listed are either not survivable or only very-limited survivable (gamma ray bursters, X-Ray stars and a couple of others).

That is why they are called NIGHTMARES!!!

"To sleep, perhaps to dream"

[MajorPo]

What about a descent into Idiocracy (check out the 2006 movie). I swear I can see it slowly happening all around me!

[pmulcahy11b]

What about a descent into Idiocracy (check out the 2006 movie). I swear I can see it slowly happening all around me!

The inmates are running the asylum...

Are you sure you meant to say "slowly?"

[Targan]

That is why they are called NIGHTMARES!!!

"To sleep, perhaps to dream"

I believe the quote you have in mind is "To sleep, perchance to dream - ay, there's the rub". Its from Shakespeare's Hamlet.

[pmulcahy11b]

How many people actually know Hamhock...er, Hamlet? I couldn't remember the exact quote.

The quote I always remember (though I can't remember who said it) is the one that people always butcher as "History repeats itself." It's really, according to what I was taught in college, "Those who do not remember the mistakes of history are doomed to repeat them." It also comes in many variations on that.

[mikeo80]

I believe the quote you have in mind is "To sleep, perchance to dream - ay, there's the rub". Its from Shakespeare's Hamlet.

Very true, Targan. English lit was never my strong suit. :D

[Graebarde]

How many people actually know Hamhock...er, Hamlet? I couldn't remember the exact quote.

The quote I always remember (though I can't remember who said it) is the one that people always butcher as "History repeats itself." It's really, according to what I was taught in college, "Those who do not remember the mistakes of history are doomed to repeat them." It also comes in many variations on that.

And the damn fools keep rewriting history all the time to suit their agendas, so what really ARE the mistakes of history?

[jester]

Watching a program on Volcanic Erupotions specificaly Krakatoa.

It gives info that, floods will result, tsunami's, earthquakes, nuclear winters, acid rain, floods and poison gas clouds and head waves and blast waves.

And all of those would result in:

1.) Death in so many levels which means bodies which will not be burried which means disease of so many levels which will turn into plagues.

Plague, cholera, typhoid and a host of other nastiness.


2.) Destroyed Infrastructure: we are talking communications, some will have an EMP effect, others will just make the com networks to disapear, and others well without power or maintenance they will stop.

Roads will be destroyed, bridges, ports, air travel, water pumps, stations and networks and purification plants. Damns which provide water, power and controlling water so we do not have floods and can navigate water routes gone!

Transport networks via road, rail, sea and air bringing in food, water and medical supplies gone and severely diminished!

Areas where oil is pumped and fuel is produced gone! Or severely diminished. If the oil is not produced inland and the refineries in similiar places it no longer exists! And the pumps at sea and coastal areas that will have flooded or at sea will continue to have oil flow <like in the Gulf of Mexico right now> And thus, a coat of oil or tar will cover large areas of our coastal regions, making it impossible for birds, fish or vegetation to live in those areas as well.

3.) Famine, nuclear winter, tidal waves polutted water, destroyed fishing grounds. A disruption in the natural cycle to include the seasonal patterns, wind and current patterns. Coupled with acid rain, pollutants of all maner from our factories and cities further poisoning region arround cities, factories, oil production and transport and storage networks.



4.) Cooling of the earth! A dramatic change in weather of the earth! Again the dying of plants, which means no food for the plant eating animals.

5.) Poison Gas and acid rains, polutting water sources, soil and other areas wherever the wind may carry them.

Those are some pretty stark events.


And then of course the regular damage the natural things will cause. Floods, Tidal Waves, Heavy Rains <as a result of the cooling, which will lead to ice storms and snowing>

All of this damage will cause a shortage of people to do work. It will also lead to war over remaining resources and farmland that is still workable, as well as potable water supplies.

All of the above is good material for using as material for a wicked campaign.

[pmulcahy11b]

And the damn fools keep rewriting history all the time to suit their agendas, so what really ARE the mistakes of history?

One thing I've learned, first in getting a BA in history, and then in my lifelong interest in history, is that nothing in history happened the way I was taught when I was a kid or the way most people today think it happened, or the way our kids are being taught these days that it happened. Kids these days need to understand that learning for them will be a constant struggle against ignorance and those who would keep them ignorant (whether by design or because their teachers are just as ignorant).

As for what really happened in history -- you just have to find as may facts as you can and make a judgment based on them. And be ready to constantly revise your beliefs.

[weswood]

Here's one that may not be very PC- our peace loving Islamic brethren inflict enough terrorist acts and demands on governments throughout the world that your average citizen of said countries go on a rampage against any Muslims, real or suspected.

Or a racial war. Minorities band together to attack "rich whitey".